Vizio 50" gets rave review!

[Feanor]

WTF?!? The Vizio VP505XVT got a rave review in Playback online magazine. Although of course It's a plasma model.

One of these days I'm going to break down and get an HDTV.

[kexodusc]

That's weird...I read every word of my subscription to Playboy online magazine but I didn't see that article? What issue was it?

Feanor, what are you waiting for? IIRC, You are retired and free of serfdom, you have a defined benefit pension plan (I hope) and should be somewhat immune to the ass-kicking some of us are receiving right now...In the last 6 months you probably jumped up a few rungs on the socio-economic ladder. People look up to your wealth now. You have an example to set, nay, a responsibility to keep.

So get your hide to a store and buy a HDTV or projector. You want to be cool like us don't you?
You deserve it.

[Feanor]

That's weird...I read every word of my subscription to Playboy online magazine but I didn't see that article? What issue was it?

Feanor, what are you waiting for? IIRC, You are retired and free of serfdom, you have a defined benefit pension plan (I hope) and should be somewhat immune to the ass-kicking some of us are receiving right now...In the last 6 months you probably jumped up a few rungs on the socio-economic ladder. People look up to your wealth now. You have an example to set, nay, a responsibility to keep.

So get your hide to a store and buy a HDTV or projector. You want to be cool like us don't you?
You deserve it.

... that's "PlayBACK" Magazine.

I'm not retire yet because my late-arrived kids are still in college and my wife was allergic to work through most of our marriage. (I do have a defined-benefit plan and benefits, though ) Ironically the one person in the house with an HDTV is my daughter, (the one whose fall semester cost me $11k), but it's in her room so Mom and I don't get to watch.

And I am a cheapskate. But I am really hoping one the CRTs dies 'cause when it does ...

[Rich-n-Texas]

... that's "PlayBACK" Magazine.
...

I saw that typo too.

[kexodusc]

... that's "PlayBACK" Magazine.

I'm not retire yet because my late-arrived kids are still in college and my wife was allergic to work through most of our marriage. (I do have a defined-benefit plan and benefits, though ) Ironically the one person in the house with an HDTV is my daughter, (the one whose fall semester cost me $11k), but it's in her room so Mom and I don't get to watch.

And I am a cheapskate. But I am really hoping one the CRTs dies 'cause when it does ...

LOL Just let your kids know the sacrifices you're making so when the finally move out to make their millions, they'll remember to pay you back with some techno-goodies.

[Rich-n-Texas]

He has to dump all his money into upkeep on that 1990 Tarus station wagon.

[02audionoob]

I subscribe to Playback for the articles...really. I hardly notice the pictures.

[pixelthis]

OHHHH LOOK! My names at the top!

[LukeR]

Yeah, have the 42" XVT and was really excited to hear the 50" was finally coming. Looking at it for my game room, but not sure what I think now that I saw it was a plasma... Still great technology, I'm sure, but I definitely have a bias towards the LCD...

[Woochifer]

Specs look pretty good on paper, and that is a top flight video processor that Vizio has installed into that set. Not sure though if it has hit stores yet. I saw a 1080p Vizio plasma selling for the same price as the 50" Panasonic plasma that I got over the weekend, but I don't recall if it was the XVT model. I went with the Panny because it's now at a great price point, and their plasma models are consistently the most reliable in the industry (helps that they can maintain continuity from one model to another, something that a virtual company that relies on outsource partners, like Vizio, cannot do).

Over at the AVS Forum, I've read posts indicating that Vizio's outsource partner bought the glass panels from Panasonic, though it doesn't sound like they're using Panny's more advanced single pane design.

UPDATE: Vizio's website still says that this model is "coming soon." So, apparently the 50" 1080p plasma units I saw over at Costco selling for $1,400 are the ones that Vizio's trying to clear out before the XVT model arrives.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Woochifer]Specs look pretty good on paper, and that is a top flight video processor that Vizio has installed into that set. Not sure though if it has hit stores yet. I saw a 1080p Vizio plasma selling for the same price as the 50" Panasonic plasma that I got over the weekend, but I don't recall if it was the XVT model. I went with the Panny because it's now at a great price point, and their plasma models are consistently the most reliable in the industry (helps that they can maintain continuity from one model to another, something that a virtual company that relies on outsource partners, like Vizio, cannot do).




BULLHOCKY.
By "continuity" do you mean bland sameness?
My current Vizio has improvements, but its a Vizio like my last one, like the one my brother bought.
This is just more hype and slander against a fine company.
BTW saw a 120hz VIZIO with silver trim, looked simply amazing.
THEY KEEP their sets the "same" and they are not "innovative, make improvements and they "lack continuity".
MORE BS from the ...

[Woochifer]

BULLHOCKY.
By "continuity" do you mean bland sameness?
My current Vizio has improvements, but its a Vizio like my last one, like the one my brother bought.
This is just more hype and slander against a fine company.
BTW saw a 120hz VIZIO with silver trim, looked simply amazing.
THEY KEEP their sets the "same" and they are not "innovative, make improvements and they "lack continuity".
MORE BS from the ...

Nope, continuity as in continued best-in-class reliability (Panny ranks #2 in plasma reliability, and #1 in LCD reliability), and continual refinement of designs that already rank at or near the top of the industry in picture quality. Panny already produces the most reliable HDTVs on the market, and improves upon picture quality that already ranks among the industry leaders year after year. Just in the past year, they've upgraded nearly all of their plasma models to 1080p, extended the service life of their panels from 60,000 hours to 100,000 hours, increased the motion resolution to over 900 lines, designed a brand new anti-glare filter, introduced a new single-pane panel design, and increased the native contrast ratio to 30,000:1. That's hardly keeping things the "same." You should be happy about all these improvements given that Panny is supposedly supplying the plasma panels for the XVT series.

A Vizio like the last one?! Puleeze, you don't even know which outsource manufacturer they called up to make the latest batch of TVs! The nameplate might be the only thing your brother's set has in common with previous models.

The virtual company business model is to basically reinvent the wheel with every product revision. Of course, that might be a good thing given how poorly some of Vizio's previous HDTVs have performed in benchmark tests. Even though the XVT is a plasma like the previous Vizio 50" 1080p model, the internal electronics, panel manufacturer, and point of assembly might have all completely changed. Even if the XVT's performance is as good as the early reviews indicate, the verdict is still out on the reliability, especially if it comes off of a different assembly line using a brand new design.

With a more vertically integrated company like Samsung or Panasonic that has built up a reliability track record that dates back through several years and product revisions, a consumer will at least know that the latest model version used the same engineering team and came off the same assembly line as the previous ones.

Hype and slander? Nope, just reality and not the bizarro variety that your fanboy glasses seem to create.

[RoadRunner6]

Nope, continuity as in continued best-in-class reliability (Panny ranks #2 in plasma reliability, and #1 in LCD reliability), and continual refinement of designs that already rank at or near the top of the industry in picture quality. Panny already produces the most reliable HDTVs on the market, and improves upon picture quality that already ranks among the industry leaders year after year. Just in the past year, they've upgraded nearly all of their plasma models to 1080p, extended the service life of their panels from 60,000 hours to 100,000 hours, increased the motion resolution to over 900 lines, designed a brand new anti-glare filter, introduced a new single-pane panel design, and increased the native contrast ratio to 30,000:1. That's hardly keeping things the "same." You should be happy about all these improvements given that Panny is supposedly supplying the plasma panels for the XVT series.

A Vizio like the last one?! Puleeze, you don't even know which outsource manufacturer they called up to make the latest batch of TVs! The nameplate might be the only thing your brother's set has in common with previous models.

The virtual company business model is to basically reinvent the wheel with every product revision. Of course, that might be a good thing given how poorly some of Vizio's previous HDTVs have performed in benchmark tests. Even though the XVT is a plasma like the previous Vizio 50" 1080p model, the internal electronics, panel manufacturer, and point of assembly might have all completely changed. Even if the XVT's performance is as good as the early reviews indicate, the verdict is still out on the reliability, especially if it comes off of a different assembly line using a brand new design.

With a more vertically integrated company like Samsung or Panasonic that has built up a reliability track record that dates back through several years and product revisions, a consumer will at least know that the latest model version used the same engineering team and came off the same assembly line as the previous ones.

Hype and slander? Nope, just reality and not the bizarro variety that your fanboy glasses seem to create.

Pow, Pow, Pow !


RR6

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=RoadRunner6]Pow, Pow, Pow !


What is that?
The sound of your new TV blowing a high voltage rectifier?

[pixelthis]

Nope, continuity as in continued best-in-class reliability (Panny ranks #2 in plasma reliability, and #1 in LCD reliability), and continual refinement of designs that already rank at or near the top of the industry in picture quality. Panny already produces the most reliable HDTVs on the market, and improves upon picture quality that already ranks among the industry leaders year after year. Just in the past year, they've upgraded nearly all of their plasma models to 1080p, extended the service life of their panels from 60,000 hours to 100,000 hours, increased the motion resolution to over 900 lines, designed a brand new anti-glare filter, introduced a new single-pane panel design, and increased the native contrast ratio to 30,000:1. That's hardly keeping things the "same." You should be happy about all these improvements given that Panny is supposedly supplying the plasma panels for the XVT series.

This is what I am talking about, Panasonic has been around forever,
I think God created it on the eighth day, I myself have a 25 yr old
Panny LED clock radio and TWO Technics turntables, both over twenty years old.
Vizio is a new company, and like a lot of new companies outsource a great deal, companies like OUTLAW, whose new pre-pro is pure
Sherwood, etc.
By insinuating that VIZIO is the sole perveyor of what is common business practice is slander of the worst sort

A Vizio like the last one?! Puleeze, you don't even know which outsource manufacturer they called up to make the latest batch of TVs! The nameplate might be the only thing your brother's set has in common with previous models.

LIKE YOU KNOW THE MANUFACTURERS of Parts in your new Panny, if you dont think Panny
outsources then you are dumber then I give you credit for

The virtual company business model is to basically reinvent the wheel with every product revision. Of course, that might be a good thing given how poorly some of Vizio's previous HDTVs have performed in benchmark tests. Even though the XVT is a plasma like the previous Vizio 50" 1080p model, the internal electronics, panel manufacturer, and point of assembly might have all completely changed. Even if the XVT's performance is as good as the early reviews indicate, the verdict is still out on the reliability, especially if it comes off of a different assembly line using a brand new design.

And what have you been smoking?
Once production is finalized it costs millions to change even the most minor thing, and the profit margins on electronics is slim enough
as it is.
As for "the verdict" being out on reliability that is true of any
new model of any new product.
My brother bought a new four head VCR in the mid eighties,
had all of the bells and whistles, and fell apart in six months.
It was a Panasonic BTW

With a more vertically integrated company like Samsung or Panasonic that has built up a reliability track record that dates back through several years and product revisions, a consumer will at least know that the latest model version used the same engineering team and came off the same assembly line as the previous ones.

YOU OUGHT to stick to cooking the books for the govt because you
know nothing about modern production methods.
A shiny new MERCEDES factory sits about twenty miles away from me.
This company has been around a century.
Who designed and built their factory?
MITSHUBISHI.
Who is the design firm that designs Bang and Olson?
Dont know but they re based in California.
And so on and so on.
YOU have no idea as to where Matshuhita (parent of Panasonic)
designed their latest set, you do know a good deal of engineering
and tech support for Japan comes from Tawain, dont you?
Or do you know anything
Not that where its built has anything to do with the quality of a product
in a global economy

Hype and slander? Nope, just reality and not the bizarro variety that your fanboy glasses seem to create.

WHAT do you know about "reality"?
Back in the day if you wanted "reliability" you went with a Panasonic,
and they are still known for that.
But if you wanted performance you went with Sony.
BUT THINGS have changed, and a lot of "economy" TV's and monitors
are built from the same parts, and sometimes from the same factory,
as the "majors".
They just save a ton on advertising , is all.
Milwalkees best is from the same vat as Miller, KEYSTONE from the same vat as Coors, but cheaper because of marketing.
Truth is you wont know where your set will come from, and all of the premutations it will go through to get to you.
Most sets are built in the same factories, by the same people.
A Panny I HAD SEVEN YEARS ago had a menu system that is the same as the one on the new Olevias, Onkyo DVD player has the same menus as
on a Toshiba DVD player.
SO WHATS YOUR POINT?
My point is that you basically paid for a "name" , truth is, except for that name there isnt much diff between a Panny and a Vizio.
You prove my point when you state that the panel from the new Vizio is from panasonic(Matshuhita).
Makes you feel better to have a "name" like some magical talisman
on the front of your set, fine, but that is all it is.
In todays hypercompetitive market TVs' are becoming increasingly
harder to tell apart.
I like to go to the store and try to figure out which different brands came from which single factory.
Fact is most of your "panny" came from teh same place as most any other TV

[Woochifer]

By insinuating that VIZIO is the sole perveyor of what is common business practice is slander of the worst sort

Never implied or stated otherwise. I am stating that outsourcing the manufacturing means you get zero continuity from one model to another. If you like what Vizio delivered with one particular model, you won't necessarily get the same performance and/or reliability with the successor model because you don't know who Vizio will contract with to design and build it.

LIKE YOU KNOW THE MANUFACTURERS of Parts in your new Panny, if you dont think Panny
outsources then you are dumber then I give you credit for

I know that Panasonic owns and operates their plants, does the R&D work on their panels, and that this year's plasma models are built in the same facilities that produced the reliable models from last year and the year before. Can't say the same thing about Vizio, now can you?

And what have you been smoking?
Once production is finalized it costs millions to change even the most minor thing, and the profit margins on electronics is slim enough
as it is.
As for "the verdict" being out on reliability that is true of any
new model of any new product.
My brother bought a new four head VCR in the mid eighties,
had all of the bells and whistles, and fell apart in six months.
It was a Panasonic BTW

Let's see, Panasonic HDTVs built in the last three years rank at the top of the industry for reliability, using a survey sample of 75,000 responses, and your only retort is a broken VCR from more than 20 years ago?!

I don't smoke, but your fleeting grasp of reality says otherwise for you.

YOU OUGHT to stick to cooking the books for the govt because you
know nothing about modern production methods.
A shiny new MERCEDES factory sits about twenty miles away from me.
This company has been around a century.
Who designed and built their factory?
MITSHUBISHI.

Let's see, who owns the factory? Mercedes
Who operates the factory? Mercedes
Who does the R&D on the vehicle? Mercedes
Who designs the major components? Mercedes
Who builds the major components? Mercedes
Who trains the workers? Mercedes
Who handles the customer support for vehicles built at that factory? Mercedes

This is the SAME business model used by Panasonic and Samsung, who are the global leaders in the plasma and LCD markets, and produce HDTVs ranked near the top for both reliability and performance.

Ask these same questions of Vizio, and the response to every question is "SOMEONE ELSE"! Vizio owns nothing, Vizio builds nothing, Vizio does R&D on nothing, and Vizio does none of their own customer support. Their 100 or so employees are nearly all assigned to marketing and financing.

YOU have no idea as to where Matshuhita (parent of Panasonic)
designed their latest set, you do know a good deal of engineering
and tech support for Japan comes from Tawain, dont you?
Or do you know anything
Not that where its built has anything to do with the quality of a product
in a global economy

Has nothing to do with geography. Has everything to do with the degree of control over the design and manufacturing process. Vizio signs outsourcing contracts and cedes control over the design and manufacturing process to whatever partner they're using this time around. Panasonic owns its own facilities, and they design their own sets from the ground up. They do outsource manufacturing for other companies like Denon and Yamaha, because they have the manufacturing and R&D capacity. Doesn't matter if the engineers are in Japan or Taiwan -- they work for Panasonic.

Oh and BTW, the parent company has been officially called Panasonic for more than a year. As usual, your information's half-baked and about a decade old.

WHAT do you know about "reality"?
Back in the day if you wanted "reliability" you went with a Panasonic,
and they are still known for that.
But if you wanted performance you went with Sony.
BUT THINGS have changed, and a lot of "economy" TV's and monitors
are built from the same parts, and sometimes from the same factory,
as the "majors".

BS. There's a whole network of fabrication facilities throughout Asia that primarily supply the low end vendors. Panasonic, Samsung, and LG might sell display panels to other manufacturers, but they don't spec the rest of the TV or do the final fabrication on low end sets.

My point is that you basically paid for a "name" , truth is, except for that name there isnt much diff between a Panny and a Vizio.
You prove my point when you state that the panel from the new Vizio is from panasonic(Matshuhita).

Actually, I paid for a TV that was designed and built by the company whose name is on the faceplate. You're the one that actually paid for the name, since nothing underneath that fascia was actually designed and built by Vizio. And in the differences that count, the Pannys have consistently outperformed the Vizios, no matter who has been producing the current models.

That new Vizio XVT might use a Panasonic panel, but the rest of the TV was designed and built by somebody else. And until those sets are out in the open, nobody has any idea of how reliable those sets will be. Consumer Reports specifically indicated in one of their issues that Vizio has had big variations in their TV reliability between different models. Some models were reliable, while others had big problems. That pretty much sums up the downside of the virtual company model.

Makes you feel better to have a "name" like some magical talisman
on the front of your set, fine, but that is all it is.
In todays hypercompetitive market TVs' are becoming increasingly
harder to tell apart.
I like to go to the store and try to figure out which different brands came from which single factory.
Fact is most of your "panny" came from teh same place as most any other TV

[DetroitIrish]

Panny ranks #2 in plasma reliability, and #1 in LCD reliability

Wooch, any chance i can get a source link on this (or is it from the one in this forum) Not doubting you, just would like to have something on hand incase a good deal pops up on black friday, one with model #s would be a +


TYIA

[Woochifer]

Wooch, any chance i can get a source link on this (or is it from the one in this forum) Not doubting you, just would like to have something on hand incase a good deal pops up on black friday, one with model #s would be a +


TYIA

This was from the Consumer Reports reliability survey. Their rankings cover a three-year timeframe and use a very large sample size of about 75,000 responses. But, they don't list things out model by model. If I can track down the issue where this info was posted, I'll post it.

[DetroitIrish]

I think there was one stickied on here somewhere, was looking for something a little more current thou

[RoadRunner6]

It gets even worse. As stated by RoadRunner in his excellent thread titled "LCD is Dead" he states from a report:

".....It was futha noted that LCD's from the Vizio LCD manufacturing company had several times stronger concentration of the nitrogen trifluoride cleaning fluid due to the fact that Vizio contracts their parts from a supplier in Detroit....."

DETROIT!, oh my God! No wonder they fall apart so quickly.

RR6

[Feanor]

No-o-o-o. The latest Consumer Reports rated HDTVs and gave Visio LCDs 'Recommended' status in every size category where represented. The Visios were mid-pack for both performance and reliability.

BTW, Samsung got the highest performance ratings in all LCD categories where represented.

[Duds]

Like Consumer Reports has any credibility

No-o-o-o. The latest Consumer Reports rated HDTVs and gave Visio LCDs 'Recommended' status in every size category where represented. The Visios were mid-pack for both performance and reliability.

BTW, Samsung got the highest performance ratings in all LCD categories where represented.

[Woochifer]

Like Consumer Reports has any credibility

For the relability ratings, most definitely. For assessment of performance, their track record is a lot sketchier.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Woochifer]For the relability ratings, most definitely. For assessment of performance, their track record is a lot sketchier.

[Woochifer]

No-o-o-o. The latest Consumer Reports rated HDTVs and gave Visio LCDs 'Recommended' status in every size category where represented. The Visios were mid-pack for both performance and reliability.

BTW, Samsung got the highest performance ratings in all LCD categories where represented.

Bear in mind that CR's rankings are heavily weighted towards convenience features and price rather than performance.

Looking at that reliability chart, what struck me was that the average repair rate among HDTVs has gone way down this year. Vizio did improve their reliability from last year, but so did most other manufacturers. Remember that just last year, CR noted that Vizio's reliability varied a lot between different models -- which is exactly what can happen if the different models are designed and built by different companies even though they share the same nameplate. One other difference is that Vizio's price advantage has shrunk considerably, which puts them more on par with the other manufacturers.

Samsung has made huge performance strides over the past year on both the LCD and plasma side. They used to be near the top on reliability, but now they're middle of the pack (Samsung didn't get worse -- everybody else just got better). Sharp's AQUOS series used to be considered the top performing LCD line and among the most reliable sets, but their last two generations have faltered badly. Color banding problems plus price reductions on the sets jointly produced by Samsung and Sony have taken a toll on their market share. On the flip side, Panasonic continues to be near the top of the reliability ratings for both plasma and LCD sets (in fact, the top-rated Sanyo plasmas are made by Panasonic).