N. Abstentia and your new room...

[L.J.]

Hey GM,

You plan on having a dedicated theater room when your house is built?

[GMichael]

Hey GM,

You plan on having a dedicated theater room when your house is built?

Not really. It will be the living room, but I'm treating it like it will be. Going to have dark paneling put in this room. Even the ceiling fan is getting pushed to one end to make room for the projector.
My wife knows how much this means to me so she has been giving in to whatever I want for this one room. The rest of the house is hers.

[L.J.]

Not really. It will be the living room, but I'm treating it like it will be. Going to have dark paneling put in this room. Even the ceiling fan is getting pushed to one end to make room for the projector.
My wife knows how much this means to me so she has been giving in to whatever I want for this one room. The rest of the house is hers.

That's cool. I've been toying with the idea of converting my garage. It's a oversized 1 car garage. We gotta baby coming soon and his room shares a wall with living room. No more explosions at 10:00pm .

[N. Abstentia]

Not really. It will be the living room, but I'm treating it like it will be. Going to have dark paneling put in this room. Even the ceiling fan is getting pushed to one end to make room for the projector.
My wife knows how much this means to me so she has been giving in to whatever I want for this one room. The rest of the house is hers.

I had to push my ceiling fan back too

The only thing about paneling is you want to make it so it won't vibrate and rattle. Are you talking about the thin wood type paneling?

[GMichael]

I had to push my ceiling fan back too

The only thing about paneling is you want to make it so it won't vibrate and rattle. Are you talking about the thin wood type paneling?

Yeah, I hadn't thought of that rattle. My builder is pretty good and has an HT room of his own. I will run this concern past him to see what he did.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Wow this thread is rather interesting. First, Robert393 is a rather old pal of mine, been around here a looooong time. Adam, Robert, and Smokey have briefly abandon me, and left me to deal with certain individuals alone. I will pay them all back for this LOL

The native display resolution of DVD is 480i. When you kick in progressive scanning it increases to 480P. 480P looks noticeably better than 480i. Upscaling that picture to 1080i DOES produce a smoother image, and on my 65" there are no visable scan lines at my viewing position 10 feet away. On my set with the image coming through a broadcast quality video switcher/processor I can definately see a difference between 480P and 480P upscaled to 1080i.

Yeah like I said I'm no expert by any means, but everything I've read says that 480p is better than anything i...or interlaced.

Not true at all. 1080i even upconverted from 480P definately looks better than just plain 480P. 720P and 1080i are indistinguishable to the eye.

Well I think the big thing is that even though 1080i has more scan lines, it still suffers from interlacing which is why 480p or 720p is preferred over 1080i. Plus if a DVD it natively 480p, is there any advantage to upconversion? Can you add things that aren't there to start with?

Upconverting 480P to 1080i is much like upsampling audio from 44.1khz to 88.2khz. It is not that you are actually increasing the amount of information in the video or audio, it is that you are sampling it more times, and interpolating it with the base information. In audio the result would be a smoother sound that doesn't sound edgy, more air, and better seperation. With video the picture is smoother, less jaggies, less digital noise.

The lines in a 1080I picture are so fine, they are no more visiable than on a 720P picture. That is not the case of 480i. 720P looks no better than 1080i except during fast motion viewing like sports. If movies are the primary source, then 1080i and 720p are inexstinguishable to the eye.

[L.J.]

Good info. I swear my mind must just be simple. I toggled back and forth for awhile with Nemo and just didn't see it. I currently got my 2910 set to 1080i, so I haven't been missing anything. I'll have to play with my settings later.

[Smokey]

First, Robert393 is a rather old pal of mine, been around here a looooong time. Adam, Robert, and Smokey have briefly abandon me, and left me to deal with certain individuals alone. I will pay them all back for this LOL

If you are talking about Nick's possie, you will be mostly on your own.

Upscaling 480p picture to 1080i DOES produce a smoother image, and on my 65" there are no visable scan lines at my viewing position 10 feet away. On my set with the image coming through a broadcast quality video switcher/processor I can definately see a difference between 480P and 480P upscaled to 1080i.

One beg the question as does "smoother" picture necessary equal better picture. I think we all can agree on that upscaling does not improve resolution. If there are no more resolution to fill out the gap warranted by 1080i format, all we are seeing is picture blown out to fill out resolution vertically and horizontally.

You said you are using broadcast quality video switcher/processor which might explain partly why you are seeing smoother picture (may be it is good at cleaning in up video noise). But how many consumers can claim that their up converter is broadcast quality also?

[robert393]

Wow this thread is rather interesting.
The native display resolution of DVD is 480i. When you kick in progressive scanning it increases to 480P. 480P looks noticeably better than 480i. Upscaling that picture to 1080i DOES produce a smoother image, and on my 65" there are no visable scan lines at my viewing position 10 feet away. On my set with the image coming through a broadcast quality video switcher/processor I can definately see a difference between 480P and 480P upscaled to 1080i.



Not true at all. 1080i even upconverted from 480P definately looks better than just plain 480P. 720P and 1080i are indistinguishable to the eye.



Upconverting 480P to 1080i is much like upsampling audio from 44.1khz to 88.2khz. It is not that you are actually increasing the amount of information in the video or audio, it is that you are sampling it more times, and interpolating it with the base information. In audio the result would be a smoother sound that doesn't sound edgy, more air, and better seperation. With video the picture is smoother, less jaggies, less digital noise.

The lines in a 1080I picture are so fine, they are no more visiable than on a 720P picture. That is not the case of 480i. 720P looks no better than 1080i except during fast motion viewing like sports. If movies are the primary source, then 1080i and 720p are inexstinguishable to the eye.

First, Robert393 is a rather old pal of mine, been around here a looooong time. Adam, Robert, and Smokey have briefly abandon me, and left me to deal with certain individuals alone.

Well, I'm back...with a vengence I guess....lol! Things have settled down for me a bit so, looks like you got me back with ya' Big Guy!
I REALLY tried to be nice by complimenting Mr. N. Abstentia's dedicated HT room & equipment, and only took issue with his giving wrong information regarding 480p material sources (there are none!) & remarks regarding his stance pronouncing the supiority of 480p over 1080i. As well as his misinformation regarding 720p being superior to 1080i (unless of course fast motion is displayed ie, sports in which case 720p would be preferred).

Thanks for jumping in here Terrence! Always good to hear from a true expert! I tried my best to explain, hopefully your explaination will make more sense to Mr. N. Abstentia.

N. Abstentia should be able to view the difference between 480p & 1080i at a local retailer (or speciality shop). Of course he will NOT be able to view (true) 720p or 1080i on his (Native: 854x480 Pixels) projector.

Again, unless you are posting screen shots of a 480p DVD being displayed at both 480p and 1080i you have no use here.

There is NOT SUCH THING AS A 480P DVD. ALL DVD is 480i. What part of this do you not understand? A P-Scan DVDP can process the 480i signal for display at 480p, but not 1080i. Dude, you are REALLY mixed up!!!
I really don't think N. Abstentia's request for me to post pics (720p or 1080i vs 480p) is required. Anybody with even the most basic knowledge of 720p or 1080i knows it's superiority to 480p. 720p & 1080i are the "Holy Grail" of PQ (at least for today!). And their superiority over 480p is undisputed in the realms of the videophile community.

Robert

[robert393]

If you are talking about Nick's possie, you will be mostly on your own.

Hope your not including me in ANY possie (wait a minute....would that be a GOOD thing?), I've pretty much always gone it alone......lol!

It is good to be back with you guys. I miss Adam ALOT. He really was one of the "good guys". His contributions were endless. Always good info, even if it contridicted a popular person or idea. Always informational, without being confrontational, and if he was wrong, he admitted it. That's a man. The idiots drove him away.

Robert

[Smokey]

Hi Robert. Good to hear from you. You need to come around more often, that goes for that darn Nick too. It is the only way to keep Sir TT in line as he fly off the handle once in a while..LOL

I miss Adam too. He went from being the most active member to almost non existence. Same with Woodman

[N. Abstentia]

robert..if you need help posting those pictures that prove your point, let me know. It's pretty basic but I'll help you do it. You do have these pictures you keep talking about...right? Surely you wouldn't be talking so much without backup......right? We all need to see how much better a 480p DVD is through a 1080i display...seriously now, I want to see what all I'm missing by not viewing a native 480 progressive source through a 1080 interlaced display.

[ericl]

N.A., I just checked out the pics on your page for the first time since you broke ground basically. Awesome!! Man I am so jealous. Looks like boatloads of fun. Paradigm Actives, I've been wanting a pair of those for ages! Congratulations, yer a lucky dude!!

[robert393]

robert..if you need help posting those pictures that prove your point, let me know. You do have these pictures you keep talking about...right? Surely you wouldn't be talking so much without backup......right?

I never said I have pictures. I never talked about having pictures. Show me ANY POST where I said I had pictures to post.

Again, unless you are posting screen shots of a 480p DVD being displayed at both 480p and 1080i you have no use here.

There is NOT SUCH THING AS A 480P DVD. ALL DVD is 480i. What part of this do you not understand? A Progressive-Scan DVD Player can process the 480i signal for display at 480p, but not at 1080i. Dude, you are REALLY mixed up!!!
I don't know why you keep requesting for me to post pics (720p or 1080i vs 480p). Anybody with even the most basic knowledge of 720p or 1080i knows it's superiority to 480p. 720p & 1080i are the "Holy Grail" of PQ (at least for today!). And their superiority over 480p is undisputed in the realms of the videophile community.

I have told you, Smokey has told you, and Terrence has also tried to explain this to you, but you still don't understand. I give up.

I did watch a 480p SOURCE through a 480p display (many many many displays actually).

What 480p SOURCE did you watch? When are you going to share this 480p SOURCE material you are talking about? As it has been explained to you BY SEVERAL PEOPLE, there is NO SUCH THING AS 480P SOURCE.

Face it, you don't know what you are talking about! Listening to you is like watching a train wreck in slow motion....frighting, and horrible, but still I can't take my eyes off it....

I guess I should ask now, before you repond with another comment that has no meaning. Are you ok? I mean, do you have any learning disabilities you would like to share at this time? Maybe you were dropped on your head as a baby or something? No offense intended, I just feel like I'm having a discussion with a "slow-learner" or someone with a learning disability. If that is the case, I apologize for repeating myself in response to your comments, and for confusing you.
Robert

[N. Abstentia]

ALL DVD is 480i. A Progressive-Scan DVD Player can process the 480i signal for display at 480p, but not at 1080i.
Robert

...and that's why 1080i was ZERO improvement in my (and most everyone else's) eyes. If DVD was 1080i then displaying it at 1080i would be better...BUT IT'S NOT!

Thanks for proving my point.

[N. Abstentia]

N.A., I just checked out the pics on your page for the first time since you broke ground basically. Awesome!! Man I am so jealous. Looks like boatloads of fun. Paradigm Actives, I've been wanting a pair of those for ages! Congratulations, yer a lucky dude!!

Thanks Man! I'll have more pictures soon, everything is in a mess now. I set it all up then tore it all down a few days ago to install baseboards and finish the trimwork. Now I've got around 1000 cd's laying in the floor and my rear speakers are..somewhere in this mess

As far as the Actives...I love them. I passed up a chance to get another set of Active 40's and an Active center recently..just couldn't pull that trigger. I didn't want to be stuck with speakers that would be nearly impossible to replace, which is probably why the Active's didn't sell better than they did.

[ericl]

As far as the Actives...I love them. I passed up a chance to get another set of Active 40's and an Active center recently..just couldn't pull that trigger. I didn't want to be stuck with speakers that would be nearly impossible to replace, which is probably why the Active's didn't sell better than they did.

what do you mean by "impossible to replace"?

[robert393]

...and that's why 1080i was ZERO improvement in my (and most everyone else's) eyes. .

You were not watching 1080i. If you ever view 1080i you will see a marked improvement over 480.

If DVD was 1080i then displaying it at 1080i would be better...BUT IT'S NOT!

By golly, seems as if you finally got it! Congratulations!

Thanks for proving my point.

You didn't need me to prove your point. You did that all by yourself........

Well to be honest I really don't know much about resolutions and 480 and 1080 and what not..........(editors comment: That statment pretty much says it all, but you prove that point over & over....read on.)

....what's the advantage of a 1080i projector? What is the native resolution of a DVD?..(editors comment: You proved you don't know or understand, but still claim 480p's superiority!.)

.....Yeah like I said I'm no expert by any means, but everything I've read says that 480p is better than anything i...or interlaced...(editors comment: Admission that you don't know or understand, wow, guess you should have stuck with "I really don't know much about resolutions and 480 and 1080".)

....even though 1080i has more scan lines, it still suffers from interlacing which is why 480p is preferred over 1080i. ..(editors comment: This is when you REALLY start proving your point that you don't know or understand what you are talking about.)

All I know is this..after demoing 1080i and 480p I preferred 480p because 1080i still suffers from interlacing...(editors comment: further proof of ignorance regarding the subject matter.)

I guess I just don't understand scaling.....(editors comment: you have proved that, and you would have done yourself a HUGE favor if you would have just left it at that.)

I did watch a 480p SOURCE through a 480p display (many many many displays actually). (editors comment: This shows you don't understand there is no such thing as 480p SOURCE!)

As I've said time and time again, my 480p source was always a progressive scan DVD player.(editors comment: Again proof that you don't understand there is no such thing as 480p SOURCE material!)

...play a DVD on your system and post pictures of the difference in 480p and 1080i..(editors comment: Proof you don't understand that a DVD is 480i and not 1080i.)

We want to see this 'major difference' between 480p and 1080i you keep talking about. ..(editors comment: still claiming the superiority of 480p over 1080i.)

I really don't need advice from some 28 post noob......(editors comment: guess you should have done a little research and find that I have been here a loooong time. Of course research is not one of your "strong-points")

...and that's why 1080i was ZERO improvement in my (and most everyone else's) eyes.(editors comment: still proving your point that 480p is superior to 1080i...you may need to get back on your "meds", because you must be hallucinating.)

You have proved your point all by yourself....over & over again. You didn't need my help in proving your point. The point you have proved is you don't know what your talking about, so......just leave it alone before you look even more foolish & ignorant than you already look!

btw...I'm still waiting to know what 480p SOURCE DVD you viewed........lol!
Robert

[N. Abstentia]

You were not watching 1080i. If you ever view 1080i you will see a marked improvement over 480.

btw...I'm still waiting to know what 480p SOURCE DVD you viewed........lol!
Robert

Well that's why we keep asking for the PICTURES. We want to see this 'marked improvement' that a 480p DVD has when displayed at 1080i.

I don't know how many times I have to say what my 480p source is. Here, I'll type slow so you can understand:


480P IS A PROGRESSIVE SCAN DVD


Clear enough?

[N. Abstentia]

what do you mean by "impossible to replace"?

They are maybe not 'impossible' to replace, but very very difficult. Since they are no longer made, if an amp dies it will have to be repaired. If that's not possible, the only thing you can do is replace it with a used Active Paradigm...IF one can be found. And once it's found...they ain't cheap. That's why I was kind of weary about having an entire speaker system made up of Active speakers.

[robert393]

Your story is changing. In Post # 26 you said:

I did watch a 480p SOURCE through a 480p display (many many many displays actually).

I want to know what 480P SOURCE you viewed through the 480p display? You mis-spoke, because their is no such thing as 480p SOURCE MATERIAL available for you to view through the 480p display. You probably viewed 480i SOURCE through the 480p display. Face up to it, be a man, and just admit you were wrong and move forward.
Robert

[N. Abstentia]

See, DVD has 480 lines of resolution. Without progressive scanning it will be interlaced, which is 480i. With upgraded equipment you can go progressive scan which is 480p. When it comes out of the DVD player, it's 480p, so that is the source.

[robert393]

See, DVD has 480 lines of resolution. Without progressive scanning it will be interlaced, which is 480i. With upgraded equipment you can go progressive scan which is 480p. When it comes out of the DVD player, it's 480p, so that is the source.

Your SOURCE MATERIAL is still native: 480i....not 480p.
Robert

[N. Abstentia]

*sigh*

[Smokey]

You mis-spoke, because their is no such thing as 480p SOURCE MATERIAL available for you to view through the 480p display.

Robert, if we put it this way, it might not be so confusing becuase you all starting to confuse me also

It is true that native DVD player is 480i, but if material is upconverted to 480P inside DVD player, then the source can be 480P. One just have to flip a switch