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  1. #26
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    That wasn't painful, now was it?

    rw
    I guess no more painful than your cherry picking my words. So what's the point Ralph?
    Sir Terrence

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  2. #27
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    I have a set of dipole surround speakers and frankly I hate them. For me monopole makes the most sense.

  3. #28
    Audio casualty StevenSurprenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mygaffer View Post
    I have a set of dipole surround speakers and frankly I hate them. For me monopole makes the most sense.
    I assume you've tried both, so I guess that there is no one shoe fits all setup. That's good to know.

  4. #29
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    I guess no more painful than your cherry picking my words.
    Trying to clarify your position. In the thread about presence speakers you said that perforated screens are not used in home theaters. Since we see that the THX standards for HTs include them, I wanted to see if you agreed with those standards - or not.

    If I were to invest heavily in an HT system, I would begin with such an arrangement for obvious reasons.

    rw

  5. #30
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    Trying to clarify your position. In the thread about presence speakers you said that perforated screens are not used in home theaters. Since we see that the THX standards for HTs include them, I wanted to see if you agreed with those standards - or not.
    Those standards were written before digital projectors came on to the scene. While I do recommend placing the center speaker behind a acoustically transparent screen(woven), I do not recommend a perforated screen because it spreads the sound as it passes through the holes which dulls the highs, and scatters sound all over the front of the room. There is light loss issues, and moire patterns that also happen when combining digital projectors with microperf screens. So no, I do not recommend microperf screens, but I do recommend placing the center behind a acoustically transparent woven screen.

    If I were to invest heavily in an HT system, I would begin with such an arrangement for obvious reasons.

    rw
    Since I have four hometheaters that use a acoustically transparent screen(not microperf), the question you pose seems just a bit strange.
    Sir Terrence

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  6. #31
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Since I have four hometheaters that use a acoustically transparent screen(not microperf), the question you pose seems just a bit strange.
    What question? So, you say you cannot hear the difference between a truly centered center and the more usual approach, yet you seem to embrace the concept anyway. I would also choose three identical speakers for the front.

    rw

  7. #32
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    What question? So, you say you cannot hear the difference between a truly centered center and the more usual approach, yet you seem to embrace the concept anyway.
    This is correct, you can use both approaches successfully depending on whether you use a screen, or a panel. I also said that neither approaches supports a horizontally placed center speaker, which is the most common approach as well.


    I would also choose three identical speakers for the front.

    rw
    I agree, and all of my system use three identical front speakers.
    Sir Terrence

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  8. #33
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    I agree, and all of my system use three identical front speakers.
    "2 custom 4 way horn hybrid monitors
    1 custom 2.5 way horn hybrid center monitor"

    rw

  9. #34
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    "2 custom 4 way horn hybrid monitors
    1 custom 2.5 way horn hybrid center monitor"

    rw
    And........what's your point?
    Sir Terrence

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  10. #35
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    And........what's your point?
    Ok, then. Never mind.

    rw

  11. #36
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    Ok, then. Never mind.

    rw
    That's what I thought. Go down that path, and you will hit another brick wall.
    Sir Terrence

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  12. #37
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    That's what I thought. Go down that path, and you will hit another brick wall.
    Apparently, the obvious contradiction in the quoted text and your statement went over your head.

    rw

  13. #38
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    Apparently, the obvious contradiction in the quoted text and your statement went over your head.

    rw
    Well rather than making ASSumptions, maybe you should ask some questions instead. My center speaker is identical to my left/right mains, I just removed the subwoofer module from it. Anything else you want to hint at?
    Sir Terrence

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  14. #39
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Well rather than making ASSumptions, maybe you should ask some questions instead.
    Ok. Do you really consider a two and a half way speaker identical to a four way speaker? Hint: read your signature line again. What does that have to do with subwoofers?

    rw

  15. #40
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    Ok. Do you really consider a two and a half way speaker identical to a four way speaker? Hint: read your signature line again. What does that have to do with subwoofers?

    rw
    2.5 way only describes the current configuration of the speaker. This speaker system has several configurations. Without the subwoofer modules, all of the speakers are full three way speakers. The center speaker has a HP filter applied at 160hz, which means it is only operating one octave of the two octaves it was designed for. This means it is behaving like a 2.5 way, not a full three way. The left right mains have no HP filter, so they are full three ways. The subwoofer modules makes them a 4 way speaker.

    Is this clear?
    Sir Terrence

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  16. #41
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    The center speaker has a HP filter applied at 160hz, which means it is only operating one octave of the two octaves it was designed for. This means it is behaving like a 2.5 way, not a full three way...Is this clear?
    I understand your description, but it certainly differs from the definition of 2.5 speakers used by everyone else. The key distinction used by other companies is the two lower drivers provide overlapped response with one extending higher than the other. The other advantage is that the crossovers are simpler. That is the way my current LSis work. There are two identical drivers at the bottom. Only one extends to the tweeter. Putting a high pass filter on the woofer to limit its lower response to 160 hz doesn't change the fact it uses a three way crossover. Most folks don't consider a woofer with an 80 hz cutoff to be a "subwoofer" either.

    Thanks for the clarification.

    rw

  17. #42
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    I understand your description, but it certainly differs from the definition of 2.5 speakers used by everyone else.
    Unfortunately everyone else didn't design this speaker, and if the designer says it is operating as a 2.5 way, you, everyone else, and I don't have the right to dispute it. It is HIS design.


    The key distinction used by other companies is the two lower drivers provide overlapped response with one extending higher than the other. The other advantage is that the crossovers are simpler. That is the way my current LSis work. There are two identical drivers at the bottom. Only one extends to the tweeter. Putting a high pass filter on the woofer to limit its lower response to 160 hz doesn't change the fact it uses a three way crossover.
    Other companies didn't make this speaker, so how they make their distinctions with THEIR speakers cannot be applied to this speaker.


    Most folks don't consider a woofer with an 80 hz cutoff to be a "subwoofer" either.
    The 80hz cutoff is the transition frequency between the midbass driver and the subwoofer. Is that clear?

    Thanks for the clarification.

    rw
    No problem.
    Sir Terrence

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  18. #43
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Other companies didn't make this speaker, so how they make their distinctions with THEIR speakers cannot be applied to this speaker.
    Ok. It employs a three way crossover additionally filtered to reduce the coverage of the woofer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    The 80hz cutoff is the transition frequency between the midbass driver and the subwoofer. Is that clear?
    Interesting. You supplement the "subwoofers" on the mains with four H-PAS subwoofers. You must really like subs.

    rw

  19. #44
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    Ok. It employs a three way crossover additionally filtered to reduce the coverage of the woofer.
    That is your interpretation. You didn't design the speaker. The designer has a different interpretation, and he designed the speaker.


    Interesting. You supplement the "subwoofers" on the mains with four H-PAS subwoofers. You must really like subs.

    rw

    The four H-PAS subs handle the LFE only. The front two speakers handle their own bass, and the bass from the center channel from 160hz down to 20hz. I like to keep the bass in the channel it is supposed to be when I can. In the center, I could not do it

    I like clean sound and plenty of headroom.
    Sir Terrence

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  20. #45
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    That is your interpretation.
    That is your interpretation!

    "Without the subwoofer modules, all of the speakers are full three way speakers...The subwoofer modules makes them a 4 way speaker. "

    No one disputes that 3 + 1 = 4!

    rw

  21. #46
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    That is your interpretation!

    Wrong again, it is the designers interpretation. I didn't design the speaker.

    "Without the subwoofer modules, all of the speakers are full three way speakers...The subwoofer modules makes them a 4 way speaker. "

    No one disputes that 3 + 1 = 4!

    rw
    You have a penchant for stating the obvious......
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 11-05-2011 at 09:33 AM.
    Sir Terrence

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  22. #47
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Wrong again, it is the designers interpretation.
    Since it is now the designer's interpretation to call a three-way speaker a three-way speaker, then we're all agreed.

    rw

  23. #48
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    Since it is now the designer's interpretation to call a three-way speaker a three-way speaker, then we're all agreed.

    rw
    It is also his interpretation that his center channel configured as it is in my system is a 2.5 way. I have no argument with that, and neither should you - you neither own the speaker, nor have you designed it.
    Sir Terrence

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  24. #49
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    It is also his interpretation ...
    Also his interpretation? How many more answers are there?

    rw

  25. #50
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    Also his interpretation? How many more answers are there?

    rw
    Whatever....move along. Your stupid one liners are becoming boring as hell.
    Sir Terrence

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