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  1. #1
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    lost my sub rumble.....to concrete?

    I have a 15" Def Tech. sub that gives plenty of chest pounding bass....but last Sept i moved my HT into our basement and now run a 7.1 setup. The basement is unfinished and the sub sits on a solid concrete floor.

    Problem is, the bass is calm and sounds great, but i lost the rumble...you know bass that you can 'feel'. Because of this i've turn the sub volume up to try and compensate but i've only increased the bass throughout the house...even woke my 3 year old two floors up one night.

    i assume its the concrete-vs-wood floor that is the culprit. Any explainations or suggestion?

  2. #2
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    It sounds like your sub was relying on the physical attributes of the floor upon which it rested to transfer the low vibrations throughout the listening room. Not much I can suggest except to turn it up. I doubt it'll attain that "gut rumbling" visceral feeling you had before, though. There's much to be said for wood floors in transferring bass.

    good luck...

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    I had a similar problem.I had an old paradign passive sub that was run by an outboard amp,it worked ok,but was all that i could afford at the time.I started rebuiding my system and my new speaker of choice was jm labs cobalt and chorus series.The new sub was far better so the problem got worse.I wanted to get rid of the old sub,but i had a brainstorm.I placed the old sub in my sub spot,locked the driver in place and put the labs sub on top of it.Problem solved,bass is now strong and clean,never boomy and you fell the impact.Try anything that will suport the weight and decouple the sub from the floor.

    good luck
    bill

  4. #4
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    good idea bill, i'll think about how to do this and give it a shot. I may also just move it around to see if anything changes.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    It sounds like your sub was relying on the physical attributes of the floor upon which it rested to transfer the low vibrations throughout the listening room. Not much I can suggest except to turn it up. I doubt it'll attain that "gut rumbling" visceral feeling you had before, though. There's much to be said for wood floors in transferring bass.

    good luck...
    I had the same problem in my old house. I plan on building a 'stage' for my HT in the basement this time and tying it in to the wall studs. The sub and speakers will be on the 'stage'.

  6. #6
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    Keith, is that going to be enough? I mean the floor is in direct contact with the seating positions. If the floor isn't tied into the walls, i would think the bass would not pass through.
    You may get some pictures to shake, but not you rearend.

    Now that you mentioned the stage, i do remember seeing HT's that put a false floor in. This maybe why the floor is installed. I just assumed it was 'overkill', but now i'm reconsidering. The additional cost may be worth the added 'experience'.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel_
    Keith, is that going to be enough? I mean the floor is in direct contact with the seating positions. If the floor isn't tied into the walls, i would think the bass would not pass through.
    You may get some pictures to shake, but not you rearend.

    Now that you mentioned the stage, i do remember seeing HT's that put a false floor in. This maybe why the floor is installed. I just assumed it was 'overkill', but now i'm reconsidering. The additional cost may be worth the added 'experience'.
    The stage is only the first step in combatting the concrete floor problem. The second is the second subwoofer located behind the couch.

    A false floor is a huge bonus for an HT room. It improves the overall sound (not just bass) and has the added bonus of keeping your feet warm! I personally have a bulkhead issue in my basement which drops the ceiling too low in one central spot therefore, I have no choice but to skip the floor option. I figure adding a second sub to the rear of the room will improve the overall bass and give me that 'bum rumble'.

  8. #8
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Hey Tarheel

    I had the opportunity to play with these recently...worth every penny if you can tuck'em away neat and tidy!!!! (you know I love spending other people's money).

    http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....7&WebPage_ID=3

    Super deal on them. This should solve your problem!!!

  9. #9
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    Kex, the link doesn't return any results...says the result returned 0 results. Will you repost the link?

    THanks!

  10. #10
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I had the opportunity to play with these recently...worth every penny if you can tuck'em away neat and tidy!!!! (you know I love spending other people's money).

    http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....7&WebPage_ID=3

    Super deal on them. This should solve your problem!!!
    Kex,

    If you posted a search result from PE's web it won't come up for anyone. I had the same problem the other day. Were you posting the TACTILE SOUND TST329 GOLD TRANSDUCER http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-862

    Or a shaker? http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=299-028

    Ether way, I think one of these may be of use to the OP.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  11. #11
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=299-027

    Actually, it was these...the bass shakers, but the ones that come in pairs for uber-cheap...high "fun-factor" with these...dunno what happened to the link, I tested it...oh well.

  12. #12
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=299-027

    Actually, it was these...the bass shakers, but the ones that come in pairs for uber-cheap...high "fun-factor" with these...dunno what happened to the link, I tested it...oh well.
    I've been interested in the shakers. But are the transducers that much better? Saw the cheapest one was almost $100. But down to 15 htz. The platinum goes to 5 htz! I'd love to try that. What's with the one for underwater? For people who have an HT system around their pool? Yikes! Now that's living.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  13. #13
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    from parts express website...
    Requires only 25 watts of power from any stereo amplifier or home receiver to play at maximum levels. Hooks up like an ordinary speaker. Use an array of Bass Shakers for larger surface areas like couches or love seats by utilizing conventional series parallel wiring configuration
    I don't have an open speaker connection so does this mean i can simply plug it into an occupied speaker terminal connection...like a surround speaker?

    On the parallel wiring config...can i run both shakers off of 1 speaker wire?

    If this is simple, i may try a pair..for $30 it could be worth it.

  14. #14
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    That rumble was distortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel_
    I have a 15" Def Tech. sub that gives plenty of chest pounding bass....but last Sept i moved my HT into our basement and now run a 7.1 setup. The basement is unfinished and the sub sits on a solid concrete floor.

    Problem is, the bass is calm and sounds great, but i lost the rumble...you know bass that you can 'feel'. Because of this i've turn the sub volume up to try and compensate but i've only increased the bass throughout the house...even woke my 3 year old two floors up one night.

    i assume its the concrete-vs-wood floor that is the culprit. Any explainations or suggestion?
    Caused by your floor vibrating the furnature you were sitting on. It might have "felt good" but it's distortion none-the-less. Your much better off on a slab.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Caused by your floor vibrating the furnature you were sitting on. It might have "felt good" but it's distortion none-the-less. Your much better off on a slab.
    For accurate bass I agree. But when an explosion doesn't rock your insides like it does in a theater it just feels as though something is missing.

    Some audio nuts that I know have torn up floors in their homes and strengthen existing studding and rebolted their subfloors to eliminate the bass "feel" that many home theater folks try to get. 'Real' bass isn't supposed to do what it does in a standard theater. It's supposed to be heard and only slightly felt. A true audiophile cringes at the dance-floor type bass that some people work very hard to recreate.

    Most people (like me) shoot for something in the middle. I have a sealed Adire Rava 12" sub that is absolutely perfect with music but I plan to port it to give it a little extra 'oomph' to push out some additional rumble. My goal with it (and the second sub that I plan to add to the room in the future) is to keep good sounding music but add a little extra for my HT listening.

  16. #16
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    What theaters have you been going to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith from Canada
    For accurate bass I agree. But when an explosion doesn't rock your insides like it does in a theater it just feels as though something is missing.

    Some audio nuts that I know have torn up floors in their homes and strengthen existing studding and rebolted their subfloors to eliminate the bass "feel" that many home theater folks try to get. 'Real' bass isn't supposed to do what it does in a standard theater. It's supposed to be heard and only slightly felt. A true audiophile cringes at the dance-floor type bass that some people work very hard to recreate.

    Most people (like me) shoot for something in the middle. I have a sealed Adire Rava 12" sub that is absolutely perfect with music but I plan to port it to give it a little extra 'oomph' to push out some additional rumble. My goal with it (and the second sub that I plan to add to the room in the future) is to keep good sounding music but add a little extra for my HT listening.
    ALL of the theaters that I go to do NOT have this kind of overblown bass. My perferred local theater (Island16) http://www.island16.com/home/default_on.asp has two Directors Halls with premium reserved seating & state of the art sound. (one is a digital projection theater also). The theaters are on slab foundations, and extremely well damped. The floors never wiggle there.
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  17. #17
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    ALL of the theaters that I go to do NOT have this kind of overblown bass. My perferred local theater (Island16) http://www.island16.com/home/default_on.asp has two Directors Halls with premium reserved seating & state of the art sound. (one is a digital projection theater also). The theaters are on slab foundations, and extremely well damped. The floors never wiggle there.
    Gotta side with Geoffcin on this one guys. Even cheapo theaters don't seem to have any vibration problems or over-exaggerated bass. If anything, there's not enough.

    The downside to the concrete slabs is the massive amount of reflection of bass energy they give off. Other floors and gyprock sheet walls absorb alot of the energy. This can actually be desireable to help smooth out the bass response. Too much rattling and vibration tends to distract me though.

  18. #18
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Gotta side with Geoffcin on this one guys. Even cheapo theaters don't seem to have any vibration problems or over-exaggerated bass. If anything, there's not enough.

    The downside to the concrete slabs is the massive amount of reflection of bass energy they give off. Other floors and gyprock sheet walls absorb alot of the energy. This can actually be desireable to help smooth out the bass response. Too much rattling and vibration tends to distract me though.
    Untreated concrete is one of the worst possible things for home audio. You absolutely need carpeting or a thick rug over it.

    Just to qualify things I'm a real bass hog. I once had four powered subs going at the same time (two 15" velo's and 2 12" Axioms). That was just to test how far I could push the dB meter though...
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  19. #19
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    I prefer bass on slab

    I have been over to some friends houses who have a lesser sub then I have where their HT set up is upstairs, sure everything vibrates, but it gets annoying halfway through a movie. No movie theater I have ever been to does this, and if it did I would never go.

    My HT set up is on slab and I must say it sounds way sharper and precise then any of my friends set ups with framed floors. The bass sound is very good and the amount of vibration I get through my couch is quite sufficient. The only downfall being on slab is, you need a big ported 12 inch or bigger with alot of power to pressurize the room, and, if your listening to music and walking around the room doing whatever, the bass feel (impact) is a little less pronounced then when seated on a piece of furniture.

  20. #20
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    i never said it was 'overblown' bass....the bass when upstairs was awesome. The bass was tight, until it hit the deepest lows and that's when i felt the rumble...esp with movies like LOTR or Master and Commander...
    Problem is, i still get good bass but that extra connection to the movie is lost. If the rattle is distortion, then i like it.
    I think people get too hung up on 'clear bass'. If it sounds good and draws you into the movie, then i'm for it.
    My lesson in all of this...when i build my dedicated HT room, i'm going with a false wood floor. I hope there is a good medium.

  21. #21
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Red face Ok here's my guess;

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel_
    i never said it was 'overblown' bass....the bass when upstairs was awesome. The bass was tight, until it hit the deepest lows and that's when i felt the rumble...esp with movies like LOTR or Master and Commander...
    Problem is, i still get good bass but that extra connection to the movie is lost. If the rattle is distortion, then i like it.
    I think people get too hung up on 'clear bass'. If it sounds good and draws you into the movie, then i'm for it.
    My lesson in all of this...when i build my dedicated HT room, i'm going with a false wood floor. I hope there is a good medium.
    My HT room DOES have an engineered wood floor with padding over concrete. It doesn't rumble. That being said, the bass is astounding. Of course I'm using two 15" subs, but that's nessasary in my size room. Even with both subs I can't hit the 115dB DTS spec. (but just by a few dB's)

    My guess is that your old room had a node at 30hz or so. This would really send the dB meter north with LFE. I bet it felt good, but you still better off with a dead(er) room for HT, and especially music. You still might be able to induce a node in your new room by changing the placement of your sub. I would try the sub in different positions to see if you can enhance the performance.
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