• 11-17-2005, 01:40 PM
    GMichael
    Looks Like The Bottom Is Falling Out Of The Dvd Market
    DVD's are dropping in price like stocks during the depression. Something is going on. Are Blu-Ray & HD-DVD's being released soon? Let me know when they get to 0.50.

    http://www.jr.com/JRSectionView.proc...riday.11172005
  • 11-17-2005, 02:14 PM
    Woochifer
    Looks like someone's trying to clear out some shelf space. Most of those titles in the sale are older titles that just aren't in demand anymore, and some of them (e.g. the Alien titles) have already been replaced by newer expanded editions. They're the same titles that you would typically find in the bargain bins at Best Buy or Wal-Mart. The studios can push (or have already pushed) the price points right back up on a lot of these titles by rereleasing them with additional content or addressing any issues (i.e. 384k DD soundtracks, nonanamorphic video, scant bonus features, etc.) that might have accompanied the original release.

    In actuality, the DVD price points on new releases have not gone down at all in the last four years (typical list price for a new release is still around $30). New releases are what move the market because they generate the most sales, and the vast majority of those sales occur within a short time frame after initial release. Once the demand subsides on those titles, then the studios and/or retailers stimulate sales by lowering the prices.

    Also, keep in mind that the DVD is now a mature format. People who buy a DVD player for the first time will build a DVD library around their favorite titles, and that was very prevalent in the early years of the format. But, now there aren't a lot of first-time DVD player buyers left, and most people who have favorite DVD titles that have been around for a few years, will likely already own those titles.

    I don't think that Blu-ray or HD-DVD are even a blip on the radar yet. There's just a lot of stale product that's been sitting on store shelves and in warehouses. No different than older CD titles that no longer sell in bunches getting allocated to bargain series status. Consumers are no longer ramping up their DVD collections by loading up on older titles, because there just aren't a lot of DVD newbies out there. Rather, consumers are merely augmenting and adding on with new releases.
  • 11-17-2005, 04:06 PM
    HT BUFF
    I think the "burning" of DVD'S has a lot to do with, I have heard of people renting 4 DVDS @ a time and burning them prior to returning them.
  • 11-17-2005, 04:45 PM
    Eric Z
    Good points! I still see a decent amount of DVDs about $12-$15; they are usually the more recent/new release versions. However, a lot of stores (online and retail) are starting some pre-Christmas prices- sorta like the post about deepdiscountdvd.com.

    I agree with not as many people buying DVDs because they rent them and burn them. I have a friend who has burned about 100 DVDs in the last year- it's crazy!
  • 11-17-2005, 04:57 PM
    robert393
    Yes, DVD prices are dropping, And although I agree in the most part with Woochifer's assessment, I will disagree in regards to HD-DVD & Blu-Ray. They ARE more than a "blip" on the radar.

    I can only speak for myself, but I stopped adding to my DVD collection about 6mts ago in anticipation of High Definition DVD. I think I am not the only one that has stopped buying DVD either!

    DVD looks antiquated when compared to True HD. High Definition DVD has 2x the picture quality of current DVD's (and that is AFTER conversion from 480i to 480p!). With that said, High Definition DVD sales may start slow, but it won't take long (relatively speaking), and it will be outselling traditional DVD (480i).

    All indications are High Definition DVD will be entering the market place 1st quarter of 2006. We are talking a couple months here! IMO, you will continue to see eroding DVD prices as they try to sell what they can, and saturate the (480i) market before those buyers eventually upgrade to High Definition (1080i) DVD.

    "The best analogy is the the comparision of 480p to HDTV to the comparison of the inferior video quality VHS to that of DVD. Or, putting it another way, VHS has half the resolution of DVD and DVD is half the resolution of HDTV." Quoted from here

    Robert
  • 11-17-2005, 05:02 PM
    Eric Z
    We have a database at my job where associates can sell things to each other. Lately I've seen tons of DVDs- one guy put his whole collection online- over 100 for $5 each. I picked up a few titles that I've never seen. I looked at it like I might have eventually rented it and that would have been $2-3 so what the heck.

    I'm curious to learn more about when HD-DVD and Blu-ray will be on the market. I read an article a while ago about HD DVD players being out in Japan. Is that right? I remember something about something costing about $1K in Japan and I could swear it was an HD DVD player, but I might be going crazy. I think someone posted about it here somewhere- I could do a search, but I'm too lazy.
  • 11-17-2005, 05:45 PM
    N. Abstentia
    Who here will be replacing their entire DVD collection and equipment with HD-DVD or BluRay? Just curious...
  • 11-17-2005, 05:56 PM
    robert393
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Who here will be replacing their entire DVD collection and equipment with HD-DVD or BluRay? Just curious...

    EVERY videophile will.....eventually! Especially if they are a true enthuasist and have a dedicated Multi-Media Room, and want the very best PQ available! But heck, some people still haven't replaced their VHS collection because they don't see the need and are perfectly happy with the PQ of VHS! They figure, why spend money on new hardware (DVDP) and then spend more money having to replace all thier software (VHS) titles?

    Others, will not hesitate to embrace a technology that provides 2x the PQ of DVD.

    I will not replace mine all at one time, but like my DVD collection slowly replaced my VHS collection, I will replace my DVD collection with High Definition DVD.

    "The best analogy is the the comparision of 480p to HDTV to the comparison of the inferior video quality VHS to that of DVD. Or, putting it another way, VHS has half the resolution of DVD and DVD is half the resolution of HDTV." Quoted from here

    Robert
  • 11-17-2005, 07:00 PM
    N. Abstentia
    Sounds like you work for HD-DVD. If this thing does not take off, will you go broke or something? You almost have a better sales pitch than that kid at Best Buy selling Monster Cables!
  • 11-17-2005, 07:38 PM
    robert393
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Sounds like you work for HD-DVD. If this thing does not take off, will you go broke or something? You almost have a better sales pitch than that kid at Best Buy selling Monster Cables!

    HD is exciting and contagious. The experience is so superior to 480p, you can't help but be excited to have more source material available! I have been watching HD movies for years now (HBO-HD, SHO-HD, HDNMV, GUYTV, MONSTER, MAJESTIC as well as D-VHS), so I'm excited to see High Definition DVD hitting the market in the next few months. It will allow for even more HD choices!

    NA, you don't need to fear HD. It's here, it's beautiful, and it's here to stay. Why not learn to embrace it? As an HT enthusiast, I would think you would welcome HD and having 2x the PQ of 480p?

    btw, do they still push Monster at BB? I haven't been in a BB in a years.

    Robert
  • 11-17-2005, 07:50 PM
    N. Abstentia
    I don't fear HD, I just have no need for it right now. I'd rather not wait a year to watch movies when I can watch them on DVD right now. I know it's the future...but that's the key word. Future. I'm enjoying my system right now, why should I wait? Whenever HD is readily available and affordable ($600 for each HD DirecTIVO..and I need FOUR of them) I'll get it. I've been through 8 track..then vinyl...then cassette..then CD...then SACD....this is no different. VHS..laserdisc..DVD...no different. It's just another step in the never ending upgrade...calm down dude!

    Are you trying to convince us or yourself that HD is right now the dominant format? Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself that abandoning DVD was the right thing to do :)
  • 11-17-2005, 07:58 PM
    robert393
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I don't fear HD, I just have no need for it right now. I'd rather not wait a year to watch movies when I can watch them on DVD right now. I know it's the future...but that's the key word. Future. I'm enjoying my system right now, why should I wait? Whenever HD is readily available and affordable ($600 for each HD DirecTIVO..and I need FOUR of them) I'll get it. I've been through 8 track..then vinyl...then cassette..then CD...then SACD....this is no different. VHS..laserdisc..DVD...no different. It's just another step in the never ending upgrade...calm down dude!

    Are you trying to convince us or yourself that HD is right now the dominant format? Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself that abandoning DVD was the right thing to do :)

    You're the one that needs to calm down. Hey, I didn't invent HD, I don't need to be convinced of it's superior PQ. I'm just enjoying it. The future is now. I've been watching nothing but HD for years now. 65" Mits (CRT-HD) in the bedroom, and 133" projection (LCoS-HD) in the Media Room.

    Sorry you don't have the technology, but that is no reason for you to continue to "slam" it either.

    btw, you may want to start another thread for your rant, and not "hi-jack" this one! This thread is about plummeting DVD prices and possible causes.
    Robert
  • 11-17-2005, 08:05 PM
    L.J.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Who here will be replacing their entire DVD collection and equipment with HD-DVD or BluRay? Just curious...

    I'm up to about 200 DVD's. All paid for. No way am I replacing anything. I was gonna get another AVR but decided to just wait and keep my 2805 for now. I'm not gonna change my spending habits just because a new format is coming. I'll jump in the HD-DVD or BR game when I like what I see. I do plan on getting a PS3 though. There's always gonna be something to spend money on.

    Why not have the best of both worlds. We got what we got now so might as well enjoy it. There will always be new releases and titles I don't own on DVD that I can buy in the future on HD-DVD or BR.
  • 11-17-2005, 08:49 PM
    robert393
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by L.J.
    Why not have the best of both worlds. We got what we got now so might as well enjoy it. There will always be new releases and titles I don't own on DVD that I can buy in the future on HD-DVD or BR.

    That's my plan too!
    Robert
  • 11-17-2005, 08:53 PM
    N. Abstentia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by robert393
    You're the one that needs to calm down.

    I'm just saying....you sound like an infomercial. You sound like the guy selling that 'magical cleaning solution' and yelling at everybody!

    Personally...like L.J. said....I'll be enjoying both. No need to limit ones self.
  • 11-17-2005, 09:02 PM
    robert393
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I'll be enjoying both. No need to limit ones self.

    Not with the H31. It's maximum resolution is 480p, which is less than half the resolution of HD.
    Robert
  • 11-17-2005, 09:26 PM
    N. Abstentia
    By the the time HD-DVD catches on (if it even does) in a few years, I might find time to get an HD projector.

    However, if what you say is true...that HD-DVD's won't display at all on a non-HD display (which is over 90% of TV's in America) this thing is doomed from the start.
  • 11-18-2005, 04:28 AM
    Eric Z
    I feel a lot of people will replace them eventually. However, I'm not sure if everyone will eventually. As long as DVDs play, I feel people will keep them- that's the nice thing about DVDs, they last longer than tapes.

    I will replace some of my DVD collection when (all must happen):

    --HD-DVD/Blu-ray are around the same price as current DVDs (under $20)
    --HD-DVD/Blu-ray players are around the same price as current DVD players (a decent one under $200)
    --HDTVs prices drop (I know there are a decent amount of sets under $1K- I want more under $1K)

    Note: There is no guarantee for me to change even when all of the above changes- there's way too much unknown to commit to anything.

    I think the majority of non-audio/HT file folks feel the same way or even most tied to regular DVDs.

    I'm interested to see what happens.

    Good question.
    Eric
  • 11-18-2005, 04:41 AM
    N. Abstentia
    Plus it's almost a miracle just to get some stuff on DVD, much less HD-DVD. Such as the upcoming Rush DVD's.
  • 11-18-2005, 05:46 AM
    robert393
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    However, if what you say is true...that HD-DVD's won't display at all on a non-HD display

    I never said HD will not display on non-HD sets. If you are going to quote me, get it right!
    The source material will display (provided appropriate inputs), BUT only at the level of the display. If your display's resolution is 854x480 Pixels, that will be the resolution you will be able to display. It won't matter that the source material is 1280x720 Pixels (720p) or 1920x1080 Pixels (1080i), you will be limited to 480p That being said, the person with only 480p display capability will not be able to watch true HD, and true HD is 2x the PQ of 480p!

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    .....this thing is doomed from the start.

    Hd is here. It's beautiful. And it's here to stay. For some reason, you just don't understand that!

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    ....non-HD display (which is over 90% of TV's in America)....

    Again, if you are going to make a statement, or quote somebody, you need to get it right. Here are some of the ACTUAL figures: These are easy to find. GOOGLE: HDTV SALES

    October 6, 2005-"By the end of 2004, HDTV sets made up 21% of overall TV sales; that number will rise to 70% of overall TV sales by the end of 2010. Additionally, 63% of U.S. TV households will have an HDTV set by 2010." Quoted from here

    "December 3, 2003 — Falling prices and improved availability of programming combined to boost sales of high-definition television sets by 50% during the past year" Quoted from here

    October 28, 2005-"Nearly 47% of TV households in the U.S. plan to buy an HDTV in the next twelve months". Quoted from here

    Robert
  • 11-18-2005, 06:07 AM
    Eric Z
    Way to post some stats, Robert. I don't think anyone is disputing HDTVs being here to stay. I think people are feeling (I know I am) hesitant because it seems that the manufaturers of HD-DVDs/Blu-ray are a bit slow with releasing info on those formats. I know if you search you can learn more about it, but the average person has no clue that HD-DVD/Blu-ray is even a thought. I mention it to friends and family and they've never even heard about it.

    It's those who aren't too into HT/audio that make up probably 85% of consumers (maybe less- it's my estimate) and those are the ones who manufaturers need to buy into HD and the new formats.

    I just think there needs to be more marketing surrounding this new technology- not HD because there's plenty of that; I'm talking HD-DVDs/Blu-ray.
  • 11-18-2005, 06:23 AM
    L.J.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Eric Z
    the average person has no clue that HD-DVD/Blu-ray is even a thought. I mention it to friends and family and they've never even heard about it.

    Same here. I don't even bother to bring it up anymore. No one I know has even heard of SACD or DVD-A either. I do have a couple of friends that are in to HT and you're right, they are content with what they have.
  • 11-18-2005, 07:10 AM
    robert393
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Eric Z
    Way to post some stats, Robert.

    Thanks! I just get tired of NA misquoting and trying to confuse.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Eric Z
    I don't think anyone is disputing HDTVs being here to stay.

    Some people(....errr....uhhh, I think you know who...lol!) have been trying to convince us that
    1) HD is not any better than 480p.
    2) HD may not "catch-on"
    3) HDTV sets are in less than 10% of American homes
    ALL THIS is simply NOT TRUE!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Eric Z
    I think people are feeling (I know I am) hesitant because it seems that the manufaturers of HD-DVDs/Blu-ray are a bit slow with releasing info on those formats.

    I agree, but remember, these are emerging technologies and ALOT IS AT STAKE for the winner (assuming one format wins out!). We're talking about billions of dollars a year from the sale of High Definition DVD. Both formats are strategizing for the LONG-HAUL, knowing that they will eventually OWN the DVD market!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Eric Z
    ...........the average person has no clue that HD-DVD/Blu-ray is even a thought. I mention it to friends and family and they've never even heard about it.

    Not to worry, they will soon enough! Of course ANYBODY I have at my house get's to experience HD (in all it's glory) on 133" LCoS. After they pick their jaw up off the chest, they are ALL ABOUT GETTING HD for themselves....lol!

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Eric Z
    It's those who aren't too into HT/audio that make up probably 85% of consumers (maybe less- it's my estimate) and those are the ones who manufaturers need to buy into HD....

    October 6, 2005-"By the end of 2004, HDTV sets made up 21% of overall TV sales; that number will rise to 70% of overall TV sales by the end of 2010. Additionally, 63% of U.S. TV households will have an HDTV set by 2010." Quoted from here
    October 28, 2005-"Nearly 47% of TV households in the U.S. plan to buy an HDTV in the next twelve months". Quoted from here

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Eric Z
    I just think there needs to be more marketing of HD-DVDs/Blu-ray.

    Like I said, High Definition DVD will be hitting the "streets" in the next few months. You will then see a "blitz" of marketing. Until then, I will be enjoying all the HD that is available TODAY!

    Robert
  • 11-18-2005, 09:36 AM
    Smokey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by robert393
    That being said, the person with only 480p display capability (854x480 Pixels) will not be able to watch true HD (1920x1080 Pixels), and true HD is 2x the PQ of 480p!

    Hi Rob

    Actually, HD have 4x times resolution of 480p.

    For 1080i HD, not only we get twice resolution horizontally, but we also get twice resolution vertically. So 2v x 2h = 4 :D
  • 11-18-2005, 01:44 PM
    robert393
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Smokey
    Hi Rob

    Actually, HD have 4x times resolution of 480p.

    For 1080i HD, not only we get twice resolution horizontally, but we also get twice resolution vertically. So 2v x 2h = 4 :D

    Wow Smoke! I didn't realize that, but it doesn't surprise me. When I see HD on my monitor, it is a "Night & Day" difference from DVD (480p)! 4x the PQ would be about right!~
    Thanks for helping me with that.........
    Robert