Looking for HK dvd player or cd changer

Hi everybody,

I have a sony 5 disc dvd/cd changer that is starting to making annoying grinding noises, so im considering replacing it.

i have a harman kardon receiver that i think looks beautiful, and would like a matching cd or dvd player. I was looking at the FL8385 5-disc changer but apparanetly it has a ton of problems, so i'm considering one of their dvd units instead.

have any of you had experiences with their DVD or CD players, and can you share your experiences with me?

Get HK DVD 31 which you can get for $250 new online and retails for $350. See the following thread underneath Harman Kardon DVD31 vs. Marantz DV4500 ( Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 ) There is an excellent review of this courtesy of anamorphic96 at
http://www.soundstageav.com/onhifi.html

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Originally Posted by bjornb17

Hi everybody,

I have a sony 5 disc dvd/cd changer that is starting to making annoying grinding noises, so im considering replacing it.

i have a harman kardon receiver that i think looks beautiful, and would like a matching cd or dvd player. I was looking at the FL8385 5-disc changer but apparanetly it has a ton of problems, so i'm considering one of their dvd units instead.

have any of you had experiences with their DVD or CD players, and can you share your experiences with me?

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Harman Kardon DVD31 vs. Marantz DV4500Harman Kardon DVD31 vs. Marantz DV4500

thanks for the reply. also, have you had any experiences with HK cd changers?

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Originally Posted by bjornb17

thanks for the reply. also, have you had any experiences with HK cd changers?

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No, sorry. I'd also use reviews on Amazon.com, circuitcity.com and Cnet to help you make a decision. From what I've read, and I may be wrong on this, it appears that if a DVD or CD player lets you play 5-6 discs instead of 1, and is the same price as a single disc unit, the sound quality and features on the single unit will be better, so possibly keep that in mind, if you're working with a budget. If not, then of course get the best sounding 5 -6 changer unit.

thanks again. i used to own one of their FL8380 cd players and it was broken about 15 minutes out of the box, as the reviews on amazon confirmed. im a bit hesitant to try their revised model. but i know their dvd players are great.

I have and still own the HK FL-8450 and it is still to this day one of the best changers I have ever used at any price point. And having a single disc or a changer has nothing to do with the sound in ANY way!!

Jay

i generally use coaxial connections anyway. do the onboard decoders really make that much of a difference compared to whats in the receiver?

[QUOTE=LEAFS264]I have and still own the HK FL-8450 and it is still to this day one of the best changers I have ever used at any price point. And having a single disc or a changer has nothing to do with the sound in ANY way!!

Don't you think that say if hypothetically, Harmon Kardon had two CD or DVD players at the same price that came out at the same time and one could play 5 discs and the other could play 1, that just by common sense and process of elimination that single disc would have better features and/or sound. If there are no quality differences between single disc and 5 disc players, then why don't these companies just sell 5 disc players? Usually, the higher end players seem to be single disc only. There has to be a reason for this.

[QUOTE=hershon]

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Originally Posted by LEAFS264

I have and still own the HK FL-8450 and it is still to this day one of the best changers I have ever used at any price point. And having a single disc or a changer has nothing to do with the sound in ANY way!!

Don't you think that say if hypothetically, Harmon Kardon had two CD or DVD players at the same price that came out at the same time and one could play 5 discs and the other could play 1, that just by common sense and process of elimination that single disc would have better features and/or sound. If there are no quality differences between single disc and 5 disc players, then why don't these companies just sell 5 disc players? Usually, the higher end players seem to be single disc only. There has to be a reason for this.

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i can actaully get the FL8385 for $109 direct from HK (remanufactured). Based on the reviews on amazon, im afraid its going to be a piece of garbage though.

Most changers are geared towards the younger generation that like to throw in a few disc's and let the good times roll or for people that like to set a program from 5 disc's while they work around the house. Look at the Integra DPC-8.5 a 6 disc changer that..IMO was the best sounding dvd/cd player I've heard, for under 1000.00. The only reason I bought the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVI was because of the picture it produced and the HDMI output. The sound is good....but not near as good as the Integra. I really don't see the logic in saying "it doesn't produce the same sound because it plays 5 discs" I think your wrong.

Jay

As a general rule, if a bunch of reviews are consistantly bad on Amazon, I'd be hesitant to buy the product. My problem with Amazon though is there always seems to be at least one or two bad reviews by total crackpots that make you hestitate buying the product unless there are a huge amount (more than 10) that are positive.

I'd see if its also sold, may not be, on circuitcity.com as alot of people usually review their product and there seems to be more consistancy on that site. If Circuit city doesn't carry it, it won't be reviewed though.

i know they used to carry it and i almost bought one for $250, good think i waited because i might get a good price on it. they dont carry it anymore, but im sure i can find the reveiws online somewhere

well it got a best buy award from consumer guide:

http://products.consumerguide.com/re...771#FullReview

but i dont know how reliable consumer guide is, since they rate everything from bose as abest buy as well, and we all know thats nonsense

Heres an interesting article. It might make you think about the reviews your reading.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/edit...terreviews.php

Dont get me wrong I still read reviews and they can be helpful. SOMETIMES. But most of the time the reviewer is kissing someone elses behind for a pay off of some sort.

Let your ears decide what you like.

well i've heard them and the sound is fantastic, it's just the reliablility which im worried about.

If you dont need DVD - A then go with the 22 model instead. Same exact player. Just no DVD - A. Its only 199.00 at CC.

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Originally Posted by anamorphic96

If you dont need DVD - A then go with the 22 model instead. Same exact player. Just no DVD - A. Its only 199.00 at CC.

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You might've answered this earlier and if so, I don't remember the answer & appologize, but outside of DVD-A, are you saying there are no other significant differences? If so, that means they're charging another $150 just to get DVD-A, for the DVD-31 which I have ($350 retail) which seems excessive.

Well at HK the MSRP for the 22 is 299.00 and yours is 349.00. Only 50.00 difference.

Most products sell below the MSRP. It's a SUGGESTED retail price. Many different things can effect price. Some has to do with the number of units a retailer buys at once.

If you paid 249.00 for the 31 and CC has the 22 for 199.00 its still only 50.00 difference.

Do you have a link to where you purchased your 31 ?

[QUOTE=anamorphic96]Well at HK the MSRP for the 22 is 299.00 and yours is 349.00. Only 50.00 difference.

Oh, my mistake. I thought I read on a post that the DVD-22 cost $200 and I assumed that was the list price. The 31 lists as $350. Right now (I just checked) 2 merchants are selling the 31 new on Amazon between $226-$229 plus shipping & for $230 new including shipping, repeat includes shipping, as a Buy It Now on Ebay, item 5776255982 of which they have 10 to sell.

actually newegg.com has the dvd-22 for $179 + $4 shipping. that seems like a pretty solid price. also i couldn't careless about dvd audio. i just watch movies and listen to regular CDs :) should i jump on it?

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Originally Posted by bjornb17

actually newegg.com has the dvd-22 for $179 + $4 shipping. that seems like a pretty solid price. also i couldn't careless about dvd audio. i just watch movies and listen to regular CDs :) should i jump on it?

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If everything is the same except DVD-A, and you're on some kind of budget & never plan to use DVD-A, I'd get the DVD-22. My only warning is, and this has happened to me on various matters outside of this, if you ever change your mind about DVD-A in the future you won't be able to play it on your system. If another $60 or whatever it is, isn't going to put a dent on your finances, I'd buy the DVD-31. Just remember the Dallas Mavericks could have resigned Steve Nash for an extra 10 million which they had, but didn't because they thought it was a bad investment, and now they're out of the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by hershon

If everything is the same except DVD-A, and you're on some kind of budget & never plan to use DVD-A, I'd get the DVD-22. My only warning is, and this has happened to me on various matters outside of this, if you ever change your mind about DVD-A in the future you won't be able to play it on your system. If another $60 or whatever it is, isn't going to put a dent on your finances, I'd buy the DVD-31. Just remember the Dallas Mavericks could have resigned Steve Nash for an extra 10 million which they had, but didn't because they thought it was a bad investment, and now they're out of the playoffs.

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strange example but whatever floats your boat :) Well im still in college at the moment, so I'm trying to keep my expenses down. I would have a hard time justifying more than about $120 for a dvd player at the moment, but considering what a nice unit it seems to be, $180 doesnt seem too bad. However, paying mroe than that would be stretching it for me.

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Originally Posted by bjornb17

strange example but whatever floats your boat :) Well im still in college at the moment, so I'm trying to keep my expenses down. I would have a hard time justifying more than about $120 for a dvd player at the moment, but considering what a nice unit it seems to be, $180 doesnt seem too bad. However, paying mroe than that would be stretching it for me.

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I'd buy the DVD-22 then You'll love the optical cable sound if its anything like the 31

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Originally Posted by hershon

I'd buy the DVD-22 then You'll love the optical cable sound if its anything like the 31

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i thought the digital connection will always sound the same since the reciever does the decoding?

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Originally Posted by bjornb17

i thought the digital connection will always sound the same since the reciever does the decoding?

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Interesting Repsonse From Your Question At Sound StageAV
May 16, 2005

Question:

I have the Harman Kardon DVD 31 DVD/CD player that you reviewed, and I love it. I bought this unit mainly for its CD sound. I play the HK, which I got for $250 online, by connecting it with a fiber-optic cable to my Denon 3801 receiver, which is connected to my six Orb Audio speakers and subwoofer, which are the best speakers and subwoofer I've heard.

The reason I'm writing you is that I read your excellent and very well-written review of the Harman Kardon DVD 31. I have one question that hopefully will resolve a major argument I am having with people on an online forum. Q: Did you listen to CDs via a fiber-optic connection or the analog outputs?

The reason I'm asking is that my sound is so much better with the fiber-optic cable than an analog outs, but people on the board keep maintaining that the sound of a $35 DVD player will sound the same as a $10,000 DVD player, ad infinitum, when connected by fiber-optic cable because it's just reading ones and zeroes. I maintain this is nonsense, and I am using the sound of my HK DVD 31 as proof.

SoundStage AV Response: By using a fiber-optic digital cable and connecting the DVD 31 directly to your Denon receiver, you are actually bypassing the DVD 31's analog stage and using the player as a transport. When using any player as a transport, you are relying on the digital-to-analog conversion to be done somewhere else. In your case, it's happening in the Denon receiver, with the digital stream being passed along by the fiber-optic cable. As for this sounding better than the DVD 31's own analog stage, that's quite possible. Denon is well-known for making some accomplished digital gear.

As for your next question, about whether a $35 DVD player will sound as good as a $10,000 one in the configuration that you're talking about, this topic has actually been batted around audiophile circles for years. On the one hand are the people who say that bits are bits and any transport will perform as well as another as long as it's operating properly. Others, however, find profound differences.

As for the bit-and-bits crowd, the argument falls apart when you compare transports and find that not all sound the same. There's more to it than just saying all the ones and zeroes transfer the same. That logic may work for computer hard drives, which aren't as time sensitive as CD playback, but there's more to it when you're trying to reproduce topnotch sound. I've done the experiment many times; hence, I don't use a $35 DVD player as a transport. On the other hand, you don't have to spend exorbitant amounts of money to get fine performance from a transport.

What you have going appears to satisfy you, and that's what's important. What's also important is that you don't just believe what others say. Some people get blinded by the world of digital and think everything sounds the same when, in fact, the discrepancies between pieces of digital gear are just as great as those between analog products.

...Doug Schneider

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Originally Posted by hershon

Interesting Repsonse From Your Question At Sound StageAV
May 16, 2005

Question:

I have the Harman Kardon DVD 31 DVD/CD player that you reviewed, and I love it. I bought this unit mainly for its CD sound. I play the HK, which I got for $250 online, by connecting it with a fiber-optic cable to my Denon 3801 receiver, which is connected to my six Orb Audio speakers and subwoofer, which are the best speakers and subwoofer I've heard.

The reason I'm writing you is that I read your excellent and very well-written review of the Harman Kardon DVD 31. I have one question that hopefully will resolve a major argument I am having with people on an online forum. Q: Did you listen to CDs via a fiber-optic connection or the analog outputs?

The reason I'm asking is that my sound is so much better with the fiber-optic cable than an analog outs, but people on the board keep maintaining that the sound of a $35 DVD player will sound the same as a $10,000 DVD player, ad infinitum, when connected by fiber-optic cable because it's just reading ones and zeroes. I maintain this is nonsense, and I am using the sound of my HK DVD 31 as proof.

SoundStage AV Response: By using a fiber-optic digital cable and connecting the DVD 31 directly to your Denon receiver, you are actually bypassing the DVD 31's analog stage and using the player as a transport. When using any player as a transport, you are relying on the digital-to-analog conversion to be done somewhere else. In your case, it's happening in the Denon receiver, with the digital stream being passed along by the fiber-optic cable. As for this sounding better than the DVD 31's own analog stage, that's quite possible. Denon is well-known for making some accomplished digital gear.

As for your next question, about whether a $35 DVD player will sound as good as a $10,000 one in the configuration that you're talking about, this topic has actually been batted around audiophile circles for years. On the one hand are the people who say that bits are bits and any transport will perform as well as another as long as it's operating properly. Others, however, find profound differences.

As for the bit-and-bits crowd, the argument falls apart when you compare transports and find that not all sound the same. There's more to it than just saying all the ones and zeroes transfer the same. That logic may work for computer hard drives, which aren't as time sensitive as CD playback, but there's more to it when you're trying to reproduce topnotch sound. I've done the experiment many times; hence, I don't use a $35 DVD player as a transport. On the other hand, you don't have to spend exorbitant amounts of money to get fine performance from a transport.

What you have going appears to satisfy you, and that's what's important. What's also important is that you don't just believe what others say. Some people get blinded by the world of digital and think everything sounds the same when, in fact, the discrepancies between pieces of digital gear are just as great as those between analog products.

...Doug Schneider

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that didnt really answer my question :( but still an interesting read

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Originally Posted by bjornb17

i thought the digital connection will always sound the same since the reciever does the decoding?

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Thats right. The digital connection is relaying on your receiver to sound good or bad,not the player,its just playing and the receiver is changing everything.

The general rule is that players using a digital connection make no difference. Maybe if you spend 2 to 5000 on a transport there might be an ever so slight difference. In Hershons situation he compared a DVD receiver which has amps and and all the other suff contained in a normal receiver in one unit. Not a very fair apple to apple comparison. But the HK sounded better to Hershons's ears. But keep in mind his Denon receiver is doing all the decoding.

Hershon also compared a Cambridge Audio CD player to his Denon with a digtial connection and noticed no difference so he sold the player.

The JVC vs HK to my eyes is not a very fair comparison. When the competition became fair with the HK and Cambridge player he noticed no difference.

The other thing is all of the listening done in these comparisons was sighted. Listening comparisons done with a blindfold and level matching the componets is the only honest way to compare since your ears do all the work and your eyes are removed from the situation.

The rule is when using a digital connection the DAC's in the receiver/amplifier will do the decoding. There is no way to refute this.

As to the differences in digital outputs between players. The general rule is there is no difference especially at similar price points. The only time I might give this some weight is with ultra high end gear. I to some extent give Hershon the benefit of the doubt since he had a witness present to hear the difference. But remember it was (all in one DVD/Receiver unit vs a stand alone DVD player.) Also we have no way of understanding the differences. One mans huge difference could be marginal to nothing to someone else.

Minor clarification. There was a slight difference in sound between the HK and Cambridge audio players but it was so minor, it wasn't worth spending an extra $500 or so dollars on keeping both of them. I preferred the HK sound but I admit I might have been subconsciously influenced because it was cheaper and the difference in sound between of them was very small.

Hershon,

Have you ever tried using a blind fold when comparing componets. I have and it has helped with my decisions. It the only honest way in my opinion. The eyes and mind have a huge effect on what you hear or what you think you hear.

This is not meant as a dig or anything. Just something to consider. :D :D

Your suggestion is a valid one. I should clarify that I usually ask someone else for their own opinion on this as well so I have a second opinion. In the case of the HK versus the Cambridge Audio player, Paul from this board came over and heard the 2 as well and agreed with me that there was a slight difference in sound between the 2 & it wasn't worth spending $500 for. I don't remember which one he preferred. When he did borrow the Cambridge Audio before I sold it on Ebay and listened to it on his Yamaha & B&W (?) system via I believe a digital connection, I think he slightly preferred the Cambridge Audio to his Sony DVD player.
In regaards to my JVC built in DVD receiver and the HK 31 connected to my Denon 3801 receiver, the difference in sound was significant for the HK 31.

When I do comparisons I always play CDR's and/or DVD+R's of the same recording right after each other.

It does help to have a second opinion from a disinterested party though.

Actually Paul used the analogue connection.

Your idea about a second opinion has a fatal flaw. He has different hearing. Where his hearing is at could be different than yours. Hearing loss is different for everyone. We all have lost some of are hearing. We also perceive sound in a different way from one another.

Removing sight from the equation is the key. Using your ears is the only honest way to tell if there is a difference. Sighted tests will always be biased in some way. Not knowing which player is playing and using only your ears is the key. This way your basing everything on what you hear. With no bias from knowing which unit is playing.

thanks fora ll the help so far

man i really want to buy it. come on someone convince me so i dont have buyers remorse :)

I dont quite understand your point of needing to be convinced. But here goes.


If it where me I would get the 22 because you get the DVD player apsect. You said you dont need DVD-A and the HK cd player has QC issues. So everything points to the 22. ;)

haha :)

im about ready to pull the trigger

Better to buy higher and not need it then to buy lower and want it.

well i can get the dvd31 for $220 but from here:
http://plasmacreations.com/customer/...roductid=32886

but i dont know if they are authorized.

I have no idea what you mean by authorized but as long as you have a warranty your covered by Harmon Kardon. as I previously stated you can get this from J&R which is world known for $229 and it turns out free shipping. Of course you'll get a full warranty. Its listed on Amazon.com under merchants for J&R.

Anyway, if you get it there, next person who dogs me out here you need to tell off on my behalf!

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Originally Posted by hershon

I have no idea what you mean by authorized but as long as you have a warranty your covered by Harmon Kardon. as I previously stated you can get this from J&R which is world known for $229 and it turns out free shipping. Of course you'll get a full warranty. Its listed on Amazon.com under merchants for J&R.

Anyway, if you get it there, next person who dogs me out here you need to tell off on my behalf!

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haha i saw some of those firey arguments on some other posts. I'll just stay out of it but thank you for helping me find a good deal.

i elected to go with the DVD 22, simply because i cant justify $50 for dvd audio. :)