A little help with my theater setup

Attached is a diagram of the living room in my new house that I am closing on tomorrow. Now, the furniture in it is not set in stone and can be moved.

Please let me know what you guys think would be the best setup for the 7.1 surround home theater please......



TV is a 57" Widescreen Hitachi
Surround sound is Yamaha HTR-5790 7.1 surround

Please move things around as you see fit. I greatly appreciate all your help in advance.


Ryan

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

Attached is a diagram of the living room in my new house that I am closing on tomorrow. Now, the furniture in it is not set in stone and can be moved.

Please let me know what you guys think would be the best setup for the 7.1 surround home theater please......



TV is a 57" Widescreen Hitachi
Surround sound is Yamaha HTR-5790 7.1 surround

Please move things around as you see fit. I greatly appreciate all your help in advance.


Ryan

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Are you using towers for the front and back! To me the couch is way to far out !I would bring it in at least to the 15 feet range and back speaker at each corner of couch !Where the sub?A room this size I would have two! My living room is 26x16 (running towers for front and a pair of 24" 3way speaker ,2 sub and on back wall pair of dipole effects speaker !Pat.P

I am not using towers at the present time. Do you recommend them? I have Infinity speakers right now but would like some recommendations on some towers if possible. Towers for the back if pretty much out of the question as they will be mounted on the wall above a sliding glass door that opens to the patio. The sub, I forgot to put it in, will probably be by the TV. How does 2 of them sound? I have no problem getting 2 if necessary. So, moving the couch would be a good idea, thanks for the reply. A little more info if possible, thanks.

Ryan

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

I am not using towers at the present time. Do you recommend them? I have Infinity speakers right now but would like some recommendations on some towers if possible. Towers for the back if pretty much out of the question as they will be mounted on the wall above a sliding glass door that opens to the patio. The sub, I forgot to put it in, will probably be by the TV. How does 2 of them sound? I have no problem getting 2 if necessary. So, moving the couch would be a good idea, thanks for the reply. A little more info if possible, thanks.

Ryan

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You do have a big room and to my opinion if you dont move couch you would need a good tower (mine are Dahlquist QX9 and added the Dahlquist QX100sa to add more bass with my Paradigm PS1000 one on right the other on left side ) these really rock when music and movies are on!If you are in Canada go to the AUDIOSHOP website they have the sub like mine at half price 299.99 and they also have the towers QX8A on sale at 649.99 (htese tower sound as good as my QX 9!The tower and another sub will fill your room with a warm feeling and enhance quality of your sound system! Check out www.audioshop.on.ca ! Marc Hallam is great to deal with ,knows is stuff and always honest ! They use to sell Paradigm but said the Dalquist sounded better and price was cheaper.They sell Energy also these are also great speaker.Try the couch there if you get towers your ears will tell you!!! Pat.P :)

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

Attached is a diagram of the living room in my new house that I am closing on tomorrow. Now, the furniture in it is not set in stone and can be moved.

Please let me know what you guys think would be the best setup for the 7.1 surround home theater please......



TV is a 57" Widescreen Hitachi
Surround sound is Yamaha HTR-5790 7.1 surround

Please move things around as you see fit. I greatly appreciate all your help in advance.


Ryan

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There are quite a few things in your setup I definately would change. Starting from the front of the room, and working my way back.

Your front speakers and television setup appears to be off center. This will make the imaging from your front speakers appear onesided, as you will have reflections from the side walls arriving at two different times. I would center that out, so both main speakers see the same distance to their respective walls. The will ensure that the front soundstage is balanced.

Your side speakers are placed in front of your listening position. That means all surround effects will be coming from in front of you, instead of the rear. I would move the couch forward so I could properly place these speakers 2-3ft behind, and to the sides of the listening position. This would place effects designed for the surround speakers in their proper place, behind the listening position.

Your center rear speakers are on the backwall, but that is too far from the L/R surrounds for a proper blend. I would move them forward that four extra feet to make them closer to the L/R surrounds. The center rear should be an extension of the surround, not an event all by themselves.

I think your setup is too scattered to blend well. I would tighten up the speakers placement considerably and not use so much of that room.

This is all I have time to cover, but as I think of other things I'll post more.

Thanks for the reply Terrence. The reason for the TV being to the right side like that is because the font door is right next to it. Should I just move that one front speaker to the other side of the door? Will it make a difference if one front side speaker is farther away from the center then the other or should I move the center speaker to the absolute center of the room and not worry about the TV? Give me some input on that.

As far as the side speakers, they should be just slightly behind the listening position? I can move them back, that isn't a problem at all.

Now, the rear speakers, how far are the recommended to be away from the listening position? I know they should be around 2-4 apart from each other as well right? The reason I have them on that back wall, is because it is a sliding glass door and I was going to mount them right above it.

Thanks a lot for the advice, I appreciate it. If you could continue on, I would be very greatful.

Also, the room has vaulted ceilings and is all tile. Will that be a problem with the bass or sound quality at all?

The first thing you ought to do is redraw your picture. The dimensions that you give are not proportional to your diagram. The 4' section should be 1/6 of the 24' section, yet it appears to be almost a half of it. The closer you draw it to scale, the better advice you can get from people, although there are some glaring problems with the setup, as have already been mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

There are quite a few things in your setup I definately would change. Starting from the front of the room, and working my way back.

Your front speakers and television setup appears to be off center. This will make the imaging from your front speakers appear onesided, as you will have reflections from the side walls arriving at two different times. I would center that out, so both main speakers see the same distance to their respective walls. The will ensure that the front soundstage is balanced.

Your side speakers are placed in front of your listening position. That means all surround effects will be coming from in front of you, instead of the rear. I would move the couch forward so I could properly place these speakers 2-3ft behind, and to the sides of the listening position. This would place effects designed for the surround speakers in their proper place, behind the listening position.

Your center rear speakers are on the backwall, but that is too far from the L/R surrounds for a proper blend. I would move them forward that four extra feet to make them closer to the L/R surrounds. The center rear should be an extension of the surround, not an event all by themselves.

I think your setup is too scattered to blend well. I would tighten up the speakers placement considerably and not use so much of that room.

This is all I have time to cover, but as I think of other things I'll post more.

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I agree with Terrence and if you can make the stated changes, the system would be close to ideal. But this is the real world with rooms you also have to lived in. As far as the rears are concerned, if you have enough power (I think the Yamaha has 110W) to drive them adequately and your receiver has adequate distance/delay adjustment I think you'll be OK. Many people go cheap on the rears, but with DD/DVD-Audio/SACD providing full range surround channels, cheap speakers will sound just that---CHEAP and ruin the experience. Definitely move the couch and Lazyboy forward and adjust the front R/C/L according to couch placement. As long as center is equidistant from R/L I think you'll be OK here as well. If you can center everything without confrontation from the wife, do it now before she settles on this configuration. Sides need to be just to the rear and above standing ear-level.

Which Hitachi 57" do you have? I have the 57S715, which looks great, but you give up a lot of cabinet, nothing to place the center speaker on. With a 42lb center, I've temporarily placed it on a stand in front of the TV until I can find an appropriate way to mount above the screen. Anyone else have this problem? I'd be interested in your solutions.

I have a little trouble getting a good idea of the layout as well, but here are two other options you could try:

1. Put the widescreen on the right wall and go wide with the layout rather than long. This may sound very different, but could improve this a bit over what you have.

2. Put the widescreen on the diagonal in the bottom right corner. You could then have more distance to work with and more walls to hang you speakers on.

Again, these are just suggestions to try, and not necessarily optimal. I know that there is more to consider when remodeling than just the sound. I've been looking to buy a new home, and I am astounded at how bad the living rooms are for a good surround sound setup. It seems like all the model homes have their speakers in the ceiling right above the TV. When I ask the agents about this, they assure me that they are working with top-notch sound companies (yeah, i'd like to have a chat with them....).

Anyhow, just some other ideas to try.

I am with Jeskibuff on this one. A re-draw would go a long way to understanding this layout. I am quite frankly confused about several things in this current layout.

I will give another redraw for you tomorrow morning. I just received my new couches from JC Penney and had to rearrange a bit. More like what Nightflier was talking about in his #2 above. I will try and get a better proportioned pic for you in the morning and we will see what we can do. Thanks for all the replies thus far.

Here is the new one. Let me know what you guys think.


Kfalls, the Hitachi I have is the 57uwx20b. It is about 3 years old.

Terrence, Kfalls, Jeski, please keep the input coming, thanks a ton you guys are great.


Ryan

I see some Spinal-Tap'ish hilarity ensuing... ;-)

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Originally Posted by RJW1138

I see some Spinal-Tap'ish hilarity ensuing... ;-)

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Suddenly, a rather large room feels a bit too claustrophobic. It must be tough squeezing through double doors that are only 5 inches wide! :D At least the proportions look better, and the "notch" seems to have been misplaced in the original diagram.

ryjam, it's hard to tell what's on that back wall where you have the rear speakers, but if there's no windows that would be blocked, I would consider placing the TV and front speakers flat against that wall (parallel to, NOT up against it).

Depending on the size of your side speakers, I'd try to place them as close to the stairs as possible. The rears would go on the other side of the stairs, on opposite sides of the wall, obviously.

What piece of furniture do you think would get the most use? The couch? The recliner?

Is it just you, you and your wife, or you, your wife and 8 kids who will be using the room the most?

Inches LOL, my bad....Of course I meant feet....Along the back wall, where the rear speakers are is a sliding glass window. It leaves only 16 inches on each side so I would be mounting the speakers above that.

The speakers I am using now are Infinity TSS-450. They are only about 3 inches high or so. Not too big at all.

The house is just my wife, 1 year old daughter, and myself. But, we do watch movies with friends a lot. And usually only two of them. The couch that is along the 11' wall gets the most use. It is a double recliner couch. We sit there the most. The couches by the stairs don't get a whole lot of use unless someone is over pretty much.

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

Inches LOL, my bad....Of course I meant feet....Along the back wall, where the rear speakers are is a sliding glass window. It leaves only 16 inches on each side so I would be mounting the speakers above that.

The speakers I am using now are Infinity TSS-450. They are only about 3 inches high or so. Not too big at all.

The house is just my wife, 1 year old daughter, and myself. But, we do watch movies with friends a lot. And usually only two of them. The couch that is along the 11' wall gets the most use. It is a double recliner couch. We sit there the most. The couches by the stairs don't get a whole lot of use unless someone is over pretty much.

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Couch look better when they were togeter !Furniture now is all scatter around and tv is at an angle ,where do you intend to put the sub? It needs to be at a coner (2 feet out and at and angle) Best thing ask your wife how she wants furniture (trust me my wife would kill me for this set up) You back room looks to me that it was intended to be a dining room.I would still bring everything in .Or concentrate on the big wall ! Pat.P

The reason the couches are like that is because (it is a sectional), but it is too wide to fit in that section where I have the recliner couches.

I was thinking about putting the couches where the stairs are but then I lose the rear surround speakers. I want to keep those. I am really in a bind on this one.

The part behind the recliner couch now is actually a dining room but we won't be using it as that. We were planning on using it as a little play area for my daughter.

Like I said though, I don't mind moving things around but I want to have all the speakers going and have the best setup for the TV. Don't you have to be a certain distance away from the TV for optimal viewing pleasure

[QUOTE=ryjam282]The reason the couches are like that is because (it is a sectional), but it is too wide to fit in that section where I have the recliner couches.

Ok What about center your back couch and put Lazy Boy where the other couch is .(put it at an angle toward the tv .As for the couch in front I would bring it in toward the double door .Add some coffee table and end table beside couch .Pat.P

I thought of that idea but what about the speakers in that respect? Where would the surrounds go and the rear surrounds?

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

Here is the new one. Let me know what you guys think.

Ryan

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You mention a front door near the TV, but don't have it in the drawing. I also don't know how tall the window along the rear speaker wall is, or the dimensions of the furniture. So I'm going to make a rough guess on these. Here's what I'm thinking:

Put blinds or equivalent in the window and close them, so the window looks normal from the outside and light is blocked from coming inside. Then place a floor-to-ceiling curtain across your rear speaker wall to hide the window on the inside and give your room more of a theater-style look. If you know someone who can sew, you can buy the fabric and make one for about $150-$200.

Place your TV along the center of this wall with the main on either side. Place the sub in the corner of your choice. Given your TV's depth, you should have enough space to center one section of your couch about 86" (1.5X the 57" width of your screen).

Place the left and right surrounds along the left and right walls parallel to the couch.

This should leave you enough space to place the rear surrounds on stands about 18" behind the couch without blocking the entrance to your stairs. As you say they're small, you might be able to mount them on the ceiling and point them down if you can run the wire.

Get a coffee table and end table and use the other couch section and La-Z-Boy to make a second seating area.

This would give you the room symmetry needed for best performance and provide reasonable spacing between your TV, speakers and seating area. It would also give you a separate seating area for entertaining, reading, etc. I've attached a sketch of how things could look. Hope this helps.

He wants part of the room in back of couch for play area for his child .By the way your drawing is great! Pat.P.

Damn Lensman. That is a great drawing. I will see what the wife thinks about that. But, that back door that will be behind the TV is a sliding glass door to the patio. But there may be a chance of this, as we can still use the door, just have to use it from the side of it and not open it all the way....I like it...We'll see, thanks a lot.

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

Damn Lensman. That is a great drawing. I will see what the wife thinks about that. But, that back door that will be behind the TV is a sliding glass door to the patio. But there may be a chance of this, as we can still use the door, just have to use it from the side of it and not open it all the way....I like it...We'll see, thanks a lot.

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Is your sub front port or rear port ? (patio window might vibrate if rear ported) Now your play area for your daugther is your seating area(carefull to the speaker and wire in back)Pat.P

The sub is rear port. I should be able to angle the port away from the window though and towards one of the walls. You have any other ideas Pat, for the layout?

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

The sub is rear port. I should be able to angle the port away from the window though and towards one of the walls. You have any other ideas Pat, for the layout?

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The setup done by Lensman is great ! Just be carefull that your daugther does'nt go in back of the unit ( avoid any accident with cords and power ) Having raising 3 daugther and now my son is 7 (secound familly) and 5 grandkids they go in everything .When the grandkids come over have to keep a eye on everything. Pat.P

Yeah, thanks for the heads up. My daughter does love to get into everything. I will try that out and what the boss (wife) says about it. I don't know if she will go for blocking the patio door though, but it's worth a shot.

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

Yeah, thanks for the heads up. My daughter does love to get into everything. I will try that out and what the boss (wife) says about it. I don't know if she will go for blocking the patio door though, but it's worth a shot.

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I know mine would kill me if I would block any window ,she likes the sun light in the day.Also to consider when your daughter gets older she'll want to play outside via patio door ,how are you going to keep a eye on her outside from living room?(just a thought) Pat.P

Good point. I really need to figure something out. This is killing me. Where I have the TV now, in my setup drawing, there is 2 windows right there and the wife wants to put the Xmas tree there so it shows through the window. I am really in a dilemma here. I never thought I would have this much trouble figuring this out....Oh well, I sure do appreciate everyones help on here. We'll figure something out.

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

Good point. I really need to figure something out. This is killing me. Where I have the TV now, in my setup drawing, there is 2 windows right there and the wife wants to put the Xmas tree there so it shows through the window. I am really in a dilemma here. I never thought I would have this much trouble figuring this out....Oh well, I sure do appreciate everyones help on here. We'll figure something out.

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You still have that 28 feet wall ! Surround could go on each side of couch (3 feet higher than headrest) your back speaker on stand on each side of couch 2 to 3 feet out and pointing toward couch .( my surround speaker are on wall like this and sound great before this was using bookshelf speaker on end table at angle toward couch and was also great )PAT.P

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

Damn Lensman. That is a great drawing. I will see what the wife thinks about that. But, that back door that will be behind the TV is a sliding glass door to the patio. But there may be a chance of this, as we can still use the door, just have to use it from the side of it and not open it all the way....I like it...We'll see, thanks a lot.

Good point. I really need to figure something out. This is killing me. Where I have the TV now, in my setup drawing, there is 2 windows right there and the wife wants to put the Xmas tree there so it shows through the window. I am really in a dilemma here. I never thought I would have this much trouble figuring this out....Oh well, I sure do appreciate everyones help on here. We'll figure something out.

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Thank you for the kind words (Pat P. as well). Didn't realize that wasn't a window. Obviously blocking a door isn't ideal. Can you tell me exactly where all the doors and windows in the room are and how wide they are? I could revise the drawing and take another look. If you have measurements for your furniture, I could adjust the drawing for those as well. The drawing is accurate to scale based on the dimensions you posted earlier and the TV is also the correct size (I looked up dimensions for it). Also for consideration, you've mentioned wall mounting your surrounds. Could you ceiling mount them as well?

Given the shape of the room and number of doors and windows in it, I must ask one final question. Is there no other room that could house your HT system?

Lensman, I will get the measurments for you when I get home. I will post them after that and we can go from there. Ceiling mounting wouldn't be out of the question, although, that room does have a vaulted ceiling but I have no problem mounting up there. Thanks again for all your help.

I do have a family room but it is a lot smaller and I am not sure if it would be ideal for the rear surrounds. I definitely want to get those up as I love the PLIIx setting on my Yammie and love the full sourround "feel". Plus, I am not sure if the sectional would fit in that room either.

I will get you a measurment of that room too, it more of a box shaped room.

Alright Lensman, here you go. Let me see what you are thinking. The wife shot down the last layout, because of the blocking of the back sliding door.

It might be tough to read, I just threw it together. Let me know if you have questions.

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

The wife shot down the last layout, because of the blocking of the back sliding door.

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Your room is long. You could go with Lensman's layout (which is pretty close to what I was suggesting), just moving everything towards the other side of the room by 5 or 6 feet.

That would leave the TV in the middle of the room, tough for power cords and connections. Also, there would have to be enough space to walk by your front speakers without the danger of knocking them over. You could use some kind of screen to aesthetically cloak the typically ugly backside of your TV so it won't look so bad from the perspective from the patio doors.

If you put the equipment along the long (28') wall, I think you should downgrade to a 5.1 setup, but it sounds like you don't want to go that route. I don't think you've got the room to take advantage of 7.1 that way. If you do try it, it would be VERY compromised.

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Originally Posted by ryjam282

Alright Lensman, here you go. Let me see what you are thinking. The wife shot down the last layout, because of the blocking of the back sliding door.

I do have a family room but it is a lot smaller and I am not sure if it would be ideal for the rear surrounds. I definitely want to get those up as I love the PLIIx setting on my Yammie and love the full sourround "feel". Plus, I am not sure if the sectional would fit in that room either.

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This is definitely not an easy room to work with. The three doors on three walls and the accessways they need, plus the three large windows prevent much of the room from being used for your equipment. The sheer size of the room, plus the fact it has a vaulted ceiling may also make it a distinct possibility the volume of air will be too great for your system to excite, resulting in a weak or unencompassing surround sound field regardless of where the speakers go. I'd really give some serious thought to that family room you mention.

That said, here's my two cents on this room. The drawings below show three possible setups. I've resized the furniture per your dimensions and placed your family's Christmas tree in the window as your wife desires.

Room A could be the easiest to set up. The rear surrounds could be mounted to the wall. The sides could be mounted on the wall and from the ceiling or they could be placed on stands. You will have some reflection problems and your right channels may have to be adjusted 1 to 2 db lower to even the volume out. A folding screen (shown) could help some with the reflection issue. This is the least ideal sonically.

Room B has the system moved as close to the center of the room as possible. Again, not ideal, but a little better as far as sound issues go. In this case, the couch in the lower seating area would actually work in a similar fashion to the screen in room A. If you cannot use the ceiling for your surrounds (and if the height is significant here I wouldn't), you might need to use light stands for the left and right surrounds that you could move behind the couch when not in use. Or you could move the left and right surrounds farther from the couch so the left isn't in the window. I moved the La-Z-Boy to show how it could add seating for socializing/casual viewing in this area, though it is outside the surround field.

Room C shows what I feel to be the best solution sonically. It also places the couch at a better viewing distance from your screen. But it's also the most involved and expensive. Basically, you'd build a freestanding wall (gray rectangle) and wire it for cable/dish and electricity (though you might also be able to do something creative with bookcases). The one I've drawn is 78" wide, leaving normal door-sized openings to the left and right. You could then place you TV and mains against it. All your surrounds could then mount on the walls (above the patio door for the rears). The patio door would be easily accessible behind the couch. If you mounted one of those fake electrical fireplaces on the other side, it'd also spruce up the front sitting area.

Hope this helps.

Lensman you are very dedicated on this theater setup .Again great job! Pat.P

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Originally Posted by PAT.P

Lensman you are very dedicated on this theater setup .Again great job! Pat.P

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Thanks. I hope the plans prove useful (though I still lean toward considering that family room). I know the scales are correct to his measurements, so if anybody has other ideas, feel free to copy the drawing and move stuff around.

Lensman, what else can I say but WOW!!!!!! That is truly awesome what you have done for me. I will show it to the boss and see what we can do. I like the idea of the third one but like you said, it could be expensive. I am skilled with a saw and could pull off that freestanding wall. I think I like version B the best though as I would like to get as many seats as possible to view the TV. Anyways, I will keep you all posted as to what I do, and when I get it all setup I will take some photos for you.

Lensman, I will try and get you some measurments of the family room ASAP as I want to see what kind of drawings you can come up with for that. I do know it is 24' long by 13' wide. And again, there is a sliding glass window in the back and an opening to the hallway and kitchen. I will get those together.

Thanks again.

Ryan

Set up B looks good to me also ! As for C you dont have to build a wall some office supply store have dividers ( cubicle ) already built to partition and are cover with fabric .But the B set up is open concept and lots of new home come with this feature .Best of luck to you and family in your new home ! Priority are family first ,home theater second !Pat .P

I agree 100% about the priorities. Thanks for you help as well Pat. P

Ryjam,
Lensman has done some excellent work here, but even his work has some problems built in.

Diagram A:

Each main L/R speaker "sees" a different reflection point(wall). This will tend to shift the imaging to the speaker with the closest point to the side wall. If you are going to use this setup, you will need to get a room divider thick enough to reflect mostly all of the highs, mids, and lower bass(deep bass is handle by sub). The same for your side L/R surrounds. If one is located close to the wall, and the other is in open space, the imaging(and frequency response) will shift to the speaker closest to the wall. The fact that one whole side of your hometheater is wall less, will shift the imaging to the opposite side, and the frequency balance on the open side will be much different than for the side closer to the wall(or window whichever).

Diagram B:

Has the same problem as A. But you have now added an absorbtion point next to one of the surrounds.

Diagram C:

This is probably the best setup of the three. All surrounds see a wall, and the L/R mains both see open space. I vote for this one if you can get the necessary wiring right, and out of sight.

Where I see a huge problem is in the deep bass. This room is pretty large, and you will be driving the sub quite hard with some of the soundtracks that are out there. I would look into purchasing a second sub in the future to help give you some extra headroom in your system. Right now you have next to none unless you keep the volume pretty low.

Lensman, you are da bomb dude. Great work!

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