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  1. #26
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    Yeah, thanks for the heads up. My daughter does love to get into everything. I will try that out and what the boss (wife) says about it. I don't know if she will go for blocking the patio door though, but it's worth a shot.

  2. #27
    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Theater setup

    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    Yeah, thanks for the heads up. My daughter does love to get into everything. I will try that out and what the boss (wife) says about it. I don't know if she will go for blocking the patio door though, but it's worth a shot.
    I know mine would kill me if I would block any window ,she likes the sun light in the day.Also to consider when your daughter gets older she'll want to play outside via patio door ,how are you going to keep a eye on her outside from living room?(just a thought) Pat.P

  3. #28
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    Good point. I really need to figure something out. This is killing me. Where I have the TV now, in my setup drawing, there is 2 windows right there and the wife wants to put the Xmas tree there so it shows through the window. I am really in a dilemma here. I never thought I would have this much trouble figuring this out....Oh well, I sure do appreciate everyones help on here. We'll figure something out.

  4. #29
    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Theater set up

    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    Good point. I really need to figure something out. This is killing me. Where I have the TV now, in my setup drawing, there is 2 windows right there and the wife wants to put the Xmas tree there so it shows through the window. I am really in a dilemma here. I never thought I would have this much trouble figuring this out....Oh well, I sure do appreciate everyones help on here. We'll figure something out.
    You still have that 28 feet wall ! Surround could go on each side of couch (3 feet higher than headrest) your back speaker on stand on each side of couch 2 to 3 feet out and pointing toward couch .( my surround speaker are on wall like this and sound great before this was using bookshelf speaker on end table at angle toward couch and was also great )PAT.P

  5. #30
    Galactic Patrol Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    Damn Lensman. That is a great drawing. I will see what the wife thinks about that. But, that back door that will be behind the TV is a sliding glass door to the patio. But there may be a chance of this, as we can still use the door, just have to use it from the side of it and not open it all the way....I like it...We'll see, thanks a lot.

    Good point. I really need to figure something out. This is killing me. Where I have the TV now, in my setup drawing, there is 2 windows right there and the wife wants to put the Xmas tree there so it shows through the window. I am really in a dilemma here. I never thought I would have this much trouble figuring this out....Oh well, I sure do appreciate everyones help on here. We'll figure something out.
    Thank you for the kind words (Pat P. as well). Didn't realize that wasn't a window. Obviously blocking a door isn't ideal. Can you tell me exactly where all the doors and windows in the room are and how wide they are? I could revise the drawing and take another look. If you have measurements for your furniture, I could adjust the drawing for those as well. The drawing is accurate to scale based on the dimensions you posted earlier and the TV is also the correct size (I looked up dimensions for it). Also for consideration, you've mentioned wall mounting your surrounds. Could you ceiling mount them as well?

    Given the shape of the room and number of doors and windows in it, I must ask one final question. Is there no other room that could house your HT system?

  6. #31
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    Lensman, I will get the measurments for you when I get home. I will post them after that and we can go from there. Ceiling mounting wouldn't be out of the question, although, that room does have a vaulted ceiling but I have no problem mounting up there. Thanks again for all your help.

    I do have a family room but it is a lot smaller and I am not sure if it would be ideal for the rear surrounds. I definitely want to get those up as I love the PLIIx setting on my Yammie and love the full sourround "feel". Plus, I am not sure if the sectional would fit in that room either.

    I will get you a measurment of that room too, it more of a box shaped room.

  7. #32
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    Alright Lensman, here you go. Let me see what you are thinking. The wife shot down the last layout, because of the blocking of the back sliding door.

    It might be tough to read, I just threw it together. Let me know if you have questions.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A little help with my theater setup-speaker-setup-new-house-2.jpg  

  8. #33
    Forum Regular jeskibuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    The wife shot down the last layout, because of the blocking of the back sliding door.
    Your room is long. You could go with Lensman's layout (which is pretty close to what I was suggesting), just moving everything towards the other side of the room by 5 or 6 feet.

    That would leave the TV in the middle of the room, tough for power cords and connections. Also, there would have to be enough space to walk by your front speakers without the danger of knocking them over. You could use some kind of screen to aesthetically cloak the typically ugly backside of your TV so it won't look so bad from the perspective from the patio doors.

    If you put the equipment along the long (28') wall, I think you should downgrade to a 5.1 setup, but it sounds like you don't want to go that route. I don't think you've got the room to take advantage of 7.1 that way. If you do try it, it would be VERY compromised.
    Click here to see my system.

  9. #34
    Galactic Patrol Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    Alright Lensman, here you go. Let me see what you are thinking. The wife shot down the last layout, because of the blocking of the back sliding door.

    I do have a family room but it is a lot smaller and I am not sure if it would be ideal for the rear surrounds. I definitely want to get those up as I love the PLIIx setting on my Yammie and love the full sourround "feel". Plus, I am not sure if the sectional would fit in that room either.
    This is definitely not an easy room to work with. The three doors on three walls and the accessways they need, plus the three large windows prevent much of the room from being used for your equipment. The sheer size of the room, plus the fact it has a vaulted ceiling may also make it a distinct possibility the volume of air will be too great for your system to excite, resulting in a weak or unencompassing surround sound field regardless of where the speakers go. I'd really give some serious thought to that family room you mention.

    That said, here's my two cents on this room. The drawings below show three possible setups. I've resized the furniture per your dimensions and placed your family's Christmas tree in the window as your wife desires.

    Room A could be the easiest to set up. The rear surrounds could be mounted to the wall. The sides could be mounted on the wall and from the ceiling or they could be placed on stands. You will have some reflection problems and your right channels may have to be adjusted 1 to 2 db lower to even the volume out. A folding screen (shown) could help some with the reflection issue. This is the least ideal sonically.

    Room B has the system moved as close to the center of the room as possible. Again, not ideal, but a little better as far as sound issues go. In this case, the couch in the lower seating area would actually work in a similar fashion to the screen in room A. If you cannot use the ceiling for your surrounds (and if the height is significant here I wouldn't), you might need to use light stands for the left and right surrounds that you could move behind the couch when not in use. Or you could move the left and right surrounds farther from the couch so the left isn't in the window. I moved the La-Z-Boy to show how it could add seating for socializing/casual viewing in this area, though it is outside the surround field.

    Room C shows what I feel to be the best solution sonically. It also places the couch at a better viewing distance from your screen. But it's also the most involved and expensive. Basically, you'd build a freestanding wall (gray rectangle) and wire it for cable/dish and electricity (though you might also be able to do something creative with bookcases). The one I've drawn is 78" wide, leaving normal door-sized openings to the left and right. You could then place you TV and mains against it. All your surrounds could then mount on the walls (above the patio door for the rears). The patio door would be easily accessible behind the couch. If you mounted one of those fake electrical fireplaces on the other side, it'd also spruce up the front sitting area.

    Hope this helps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A little help with my theater setup-speaker-rooms.jpg  

  10. #35
    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Smile Theater setup

    Lensman you are very dedicated on this theater setup .Again great job! Pat.P

  11. #36
    Galactic Patrol Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT.P
    Lensman you are very dedicated on this theater setup .Again great job! Pat.P
    Thanks. I hope the plans prove useful (though I still lean toward considering that family room). I know the scales are correct to his measurements, so if anybody has other ideas, feel free to copy the drawing and move stuff around.

  12. #37
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    Lensman, what else can I say but WOW!!!!!! That is truly awesome what you have done for me. I will show it to the boss and see what we can do. I like the idea of the third one but like you said, it could be expensive. I am skilled with a saw and could pull off that freestanding wall. I think I like version B the best though as I would like to get as many seats as possible to view the TV. Anyways, I will keep you all posted as to what I do, and when I get it all setup I will take some photos for you.

    Lensman, I will try and get you some measurments of the family room ASAP as I want to see what kind of drawings you can come up with for that. I do know it is 24' long by 13' wide. And again, there is a sliding glass window in the back and an opening to the hallway and kitchen. I will get those together.

    Thanks again.

    Ryan

  13. #38
    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Home theater

    Set up B looks good to me also ! As for C you dont have to build a wall some office supply store have dividers ( cubicle ) already built to partition and are cover with fabric .But the B set up is open concept and lots of new home come with this feature .Best of luck to you and family in your new home ! Priority are family first ,home theater second !Pat .P

  14. #39
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    I agree 100% about the priorities. Thanks for you help as well Pat. P

  15. #40
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Ryjam,
    Lensman has done some excellent work here, but even his work has some problems built in.

    Diagram A:

    Each main L/R speaker "sees" a different reflection point(wall). This will tend to shift the imaging to the speaker with the closest point to the side wall. If you are going to use this setup, you will need to get a room divider thick enough to reflect mostly all of the highs, mids, and lower bass(deep bass is handle by sub). The same for your side L/R surrounds. If one is located close to the wall, and the other is in open space, the imaging(and frequency response) will shift to the speaker closest to the wall. The fact that one whole side of your hometheater is wall less, will shift the imaging to the opposite side, and the frequency balance on the open side will be much different than for the side closer to the wall(or window whichever).

    Diagram B:

    Has the same problem as A. But you have now added an absorbtion point next to one of the surrounds.

    Diagram C:

    This is probably the best setup of the three. All surrounds see a wall, and the L/R mains both see open space. I vote for this one if you can get the necessary wiring right, and out of sight.

    Where I see a huge problem is in the deep bass. This room is pretty large, and you will be driving the sub quite hard with some of the soundtracks that are out there. I would look into purchasing a second sub in the future to help give you some extra headroom in your system. Right now you have next to none unless you keep the volume pretty low.

    Lensman, you are da bomb dude. Great work!

    .
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  16. #41
    Galactic Patrol Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    Lensman, what else can I say but WOW!!!!!! That is truly awesome what you have done for me. I will show it to the boss and see what we can do. I like the idea of the third one but like you said, it could be expensive. I am skilled with a saw and could pull off that freestanding wall. I think I like version B the best though as I would like to get as many seats as possible to view the TV. Anyways, I will keep you all posted as to what I do, and when I get it all setup I will take some photos for you.

    Lensman, I will try and get you some measurments of the family room ASAP as I want to see what kind of drawings you can come up with for that. I do know it is 24' long by 13' wide. And again, there is a sliding glass window in the back and an opening to the hallway and kitchen. I will get those together.

    Thanks again.

    Ryan
    You're quite welcome, Ryan. Glad I could help. I look forward to hearing the outcome of the discussion with your wife. Sir T. has spoken truly (and I am honored by your compliment Sir T.) when he cautions that, regardless of layout, there will still be sonic problems with this room. Its symmetry, size and window lighting are all working against your efforts to create an optimum HT setup. This isn't to say you can’t have one you find satisfactory. But it may be possible to set up a more enjoyable one in your family room. I’ll keep an eye out for those measurements.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lensman
    You're quite welcome, Ryan. Glad I could help. I look forward to hearing the outcome of the discussion with your wife. Sir T. has spoken truly (and I am honored by your compliment Sir T.) when he cautions that, regardless of layout, there will still be sonic problems with this room. Its symmetry, size and window lighting are all working against your efforts to create an optimum HT setup. This isn't to say you can’t have one you find satisfactory. But it may be possible to set up a more enjoyable one in your family room. I’ll keep an eye out for those measurements.

    Lensman, here is the quick measurments for my family room. I really don't think it is feasible to do it here but let me see what you have in mind.

    I spoke with the wife and she wants to see what you can come up with in the family room before we make any decisions. She loves that you put the xmas tree in the window like she wanted : )

    Ryan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A little help with my theater setup-family-room.jpg  

  18. #43
    Galactic Patrol Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    Lensman, here is the quick measurments for my family room. I really don't think it is feasible to do it here but let me see what you have in mind.

    I spoke with the wife and she wants to see what you can come up with in the family room before we make any decisions. She loves that you put the xmas tree in the window like she wanted : )

    Ryan
    I'm glad your wife liked the drawings. Home theaters should bring people together. While it's important to try to optimize the layout for best sound, it's important the layout also works for the people living with it. Of course, the best layouts do both.

    I think your family room will actually work better for your setup. Although there are non-ideal openings, the smaller size (and I assume non-vaulted ceiling) will help you maintain better bass levels. You should also have fewer acoustic problems in this room. In addition, it will also be easier to control the lighting having the single patio door and no windows.

    I've attached what I feel is the best layout for this room. By placing your seating and TV across the center of the room, you should be able to get reasonably decent symmetry with your speakers' reflections. Being a foot wider, this room will also allow you to place the seating farther from your TV. I've placed a 6' sofa and two La-Z-Boys to show how the layout could provide more view seating within the soundfield.

    As subs generally provide better response in corners, I've placed yours in the top left. It could also go in the bottom left. You may be able to place it elsewhere, such as along the wall with your mains, you'll just have to experiment.

    Your surrounds should be placed about 2-3 ft. above your head when seated. The rear surrounds can mount on the wall. The left and right surrounds could be mounted on tall stands or attached to the ceiling. Figure A shows this. You could also mount them to the walls as shown in B, though this is less ideal.

    With a couple of small end tables with tables lamps near the La-Z-Boys, or floor lamps to the outside of each of the rear surrounds, and maybe a media storage rack or bookcases along the bottom wall, this could be a very nice entertainment area.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A little help with my theater setup-family-room.jpg  

  19. #44
    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Theater setup

    Lensman your at it again! This room would be great one for home entertainment centre I like your drawing A with speaker on side of couch I would also add another sub at other corner it is a very large room.My living room is 26 feet long X 16 and added another sub it really added the extra bass without concentrating on one corner ,now it just blend in .Fine work again! Pat.P

  20. #45
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    Here is what we decided on. She didn't want to use the family room. So, here is my dilemma, the side surrounds, right now, I have them mounted about 1 foot in front of the listening position (the couch next to the lazyboy, that is where we sit 99% of the time). Should I move those back a bit and angle them a bit forward? But, if I do this, will the sound from them blend too much with the rear surrounds that are mounted above the rear window? Please help on what I should do with this lay out. Much thanks to all.




    Ryan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A little help with my theater setup-family-room.jpg  

  21. #46
    Forum Regular jeskibuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    So, here is my dilemma, the side surrounds, right now, I have them mounted about 1 foot in front of the listening position (the couch next to the lazyboy, that is where we sit 99% of the time). Should I move those back a bit and angle them a bit forward?
    In my opinion, you should move them further BEHIND you, maybe 1 or 2 feet behind your heads. Don't bother angling them forward. Where they're at now will NOT put you properly in the surround field. What you sense should be happening behind you will actually be "happening" in front of you, which is not the way it is meant to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    But, if I do this, will the sound from them blend too much with the rear surrounds that are mounted above the rear window?
    If you can properly set the distances of both the sides and the rears using your preamp/receiver, you won't have to worry about improper "blending".

    If you spend 99% of your time on that couch, I would try to center it between the side walls. Move the recliner to some other spot and you should have plenty of room to get to the play area on both sides of the couch. Your listening position is really screwy right now, off-center from ALL the speakers.
    Click here to see my system.

  22. #47
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    Bump for Lensman reply. I need to talk with when you hav a second. PM or email me when you can, thanks a lot.

    Ryjam282@bellsouth.net

    Ryan

  23. #48
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    Actually, Lensman, How about something like this? I have a question about the specs of the room and the furniture and TV specs. How correct are they to actual scope? This is the way I was looking at doing the room and I wanted to know what you thought or if anyone can give me an idea as to how it would sound this way. Any input will do, thanks a lot.


    Ryan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A little help with my theater setup-%7Emybitmap.jpg  
    Last edited by ryjam282; 02-04-2005 at 08:10 AM.

  24. #49
    Galactic Patrol Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryjam282
    Actually, Lensman, How about something like this? I have a question about the specs of the room and the furniture and TV specs. How correct are they to actual scope? This is the way I was looking at doing the room and I wanted to know what you thought or if anyone can give me an idea as to how it would sound this way. Any input will do, thanks a lot.

    Ryan
    Sorry for the delay. Things have been somewhat busy for me lately and this thread must have popped up and gotten buried by new posts before I had an opportunity to see it.

    To answer your question regarding the correctness of the drawings, the dimensions are accurate to one tenth of an inch of the dimensions you specified in your preceeding posts. The family room was built to the dimensions you posted Nov. 15. For the TV, I visited Hitachi's site and got the dimensions for the 57uwx20b model you stated in your post from Nov. 8. The couches and chairs are built to the dimensions you specified for your main room on November 10. I did redraw them a bit differently for the family room art, but they are really the same pieces of furniture. The coffee table is, of course, pure fantasy. I made a rough guess on the speakers, as their exact sizes didn't seem critical to laying out your rooms.

    Your revised layout is, on the whole, not bad with the exception of your left front speaker. As all your other speakers are against walls and this one is a considerable distance from anything, overall volume will probably be 2-4 db quieter from it. Though you can compensate for that on your receiver, there may additionally be noticable loss of bass from speaker. Your soundstage may also appear a bit off center as the first reflection point from this speaker is outside the room. Aside from the acoustic issues, I'd further tend to think placing a speaker (and it's wiring) out in the center of a entryway would pose a problem with the family.

    A reasonable compromise would be to place the front mains next to your TV, move them forward so the grills are just slightly forward of your screen, and angle them in towards each other a bit (like you're pointing them at the middle of the center sofa). I'd angle the left and right surrounds a bit more toward the sofa as well.

  25. #50
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    Thanks so much Lensman. I appreciate the response as always...Unfortunately, when we tried to do the move of the room this weekend for the Super Bowl party it wasn't a success. The back window posed a bit of a problem, the TV was getting a pretty bad light reflection on it even with the blinds closed. So, I have 2 options that I can really think of. 1.) Tint the back sliding window. 2.) Get a different TV. Would and LCD screen get any kind of reflection off it? That is what I am unsure about. It would be about 12 feet or so from the back window and in direct view of it. Can anyone help on this matter? My wife wanted a new TV anyways so this might be a good way for me to get her to do it. Please help....AGAIN : )

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