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  1. #1
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    I "Stole" A Denon 3801 for $310 due to idiot Ebay Bidders!

    Finally got my second Denon 3801 for my bedroom that is in mint condition with the 3801 remote for the total bargain price of $310 plus $35 shipping from a reliable seller on Ebay with excellent feedback. I figure I can sell the remote for an easy $60 as I don't need it with my Harmony LogiTech 676 Universal Remote & get rid of my JVC RX DV31SL receiver for another $100 or so. So it was a good day.

    Alot of the people who bid on Ebay, I'm sorry to say, are not very smart.
    The only way to win an Ebay auction in the first place is by bidding in the last 10 seconds. Unfortunately, most of these idiots, bid early on in an auction which just accomplishes one thing and one thing only, bidding up the price. They are literally throwing away money. If Ebay wanted to run a fairer auction, they would limit bids in the last 2 hours only to people who bid prior to that. Instead, unless you do not have access to a computer in the last few minutes of an auction, you have to be a complete idiot to make a bid until the final moment. These cretins do not seem to realize that. In my case I lucked out here, as 25 people bid stupidly early on and I just bid once in the final 10 seconds.

    Ebay also encourages shill bidders to bid up a price as well. I would estimate that at least 80% of people with 0 to 2 feedback who make an initial bid early when there are no bids or just by "coincidence" signed onto Ebay that same day are shill bidders. These same people with 0 to 2 feedback also seem to make an early bid within 5 minutes of someone bidding on an item where there had been no bids before.

    I mainly prefer to use either Amazon.com or an established online retailer that I find via Google searches and places like pricegrabber and epinions than to use Ebay because of the above (idiot bidders & shill bidders). When I do use Ebay it is usually to get something under a "Buy it Now" item (no bidding) or if its either a very hard to find item or if its a used item that I can get a good deal from from a seller with good feedback.

  2. #2
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    Yes Hershon. We are all Idiots compared to your huge well of knowleadge!!!!! Only a coward would log in under a different name. Don't try and lie about it. You have all the same equipment as he does and your advice is just a crappy!!!!
    You are still a joke and should be banned fron this site!!!!!

    Jay

  3. #3
    AR Member JeffKnob's Avatar
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    Ebay tells you to bid as high as you are willing to pay so if you were to have bid $310 and someone that bid on the first day was willing to bid up to $350, they would have won and not you. Just because they bid $350 early on doesn't mean that the price goes to that point, it just means that ebay will bid on their behalf up to that point. The amount only goes up by certain intervals like $1 or $0.50. I am sure there is more information on Ebay that explains how their system works.

    Looking for items in the last few minutes is a good way of finding deals on items that have few to no people have bid on and you can get an item at a good cost. It doesn't have a low cost because people are idiots like you said but because not many people are interested.

    Bidding at the last minute used to be the way to go but things have changed on Ebay. You should check it out.

  4. #4
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    Angry Hey, I'm not an idiot!!!

    At least not most days...
    Hey, I've done business on ebay both ways. I rarely if ever bid before the LAST day but I sometimes put in my final offer an hour or so before an auction ends so I can "get on with my life". Some things I watch and snipe on, it depends on what it is and if I REALLY want it or not. Got too many sets of speakers and too many bass guitars in my house now thanks to Ebay,

    Ebay a turrible drug (in my best Rick James impression)

    Da Worfster

  5. #5
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    IHAteHershon VeryOriginal Name & Insiteful Comment

    That is truely an original name, wow you have a real creative mind & obviously you have some serious problems. Thank you for sharing your insightful views.

  6. #6
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    Huh?

    Bidding at the last minute used to be the way to go but things have changed on Ebay. You should check it out.[/QUOTE]

    Please elaborate. Yes, Ebay will bid your maximum amount which is good if you can't be at your computer during the final minute ot so but is essentially to me worthless & a bad tactical
    move. Let's say I decided I was willing to buy this Denon receiver at $375 maximum & will not have access to the computer the last hour of auction. I then place a bid on the first day of auction. What have I essentially accomplished other than bidding up an item and even then there is no guarantee this will help me win the item. IE, let's say that as a result of my $375 bid, on day 4 of a 7 day auction, bidding is now at $350 with me on top, by day 7 bidding could very well be at $380, As I have no acccess to the computer, I can't up my bid a few more dollars. So all I did was up the price of the auction & didn't win anything. Alternatively, let's say I do win the item at $375. In all likelyhood if I did not place a bid until the last few items instead, I still could have won the auction at a much lower price if I had not bid prices up.

    I buy and sell autographs online from a well known large auction place & the way they do things which is the fairest way is that they only permit you to bid in the last 2 hours if you had made a bid prior to this. Ebay could do this but choses not to and it would result in fairer competition. Ebay also permits both deadbeat sellers and bidders to continue on Ebay after an offense which is ridiculous as it involves screwing someone over money.

  7. #7
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    Sniping is only part of the tactic

    I agree that sniping is the best way to win an item. But sometimes you need to bring the price up a bit if it is way too low for too long. The trick is to bring it up to a point where you know that it will not be the final selling price, but it will be enough to scare off people who normally would not be interested in the item if it were not for an absurdly low price.

    That way, when you are ready to do your sniping, there will be fewer people involved in the bidding. This is good because it is amazing to see how people start doing panic bids once they get caught up in the competetiveness of it all. Some people are so determined to win that I see them bid higher than the cost of a brand new item bought retail!

    Bottom line: you want the price to be well below of your max sniping price, but not a chasm.

  8. #8
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    The funniest thing is when they either: 1. Bid higher for an item that they can buy outright on say Amazon.com for less or when someone is offering the same exact item as a Buy it Now Item at a lower price.
    Last edited by EdwardGein; 06-28-2005 at 10:29 AM.

  9. #9
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Ebay's really dropped the ball IMO. Too many tricks and no will from corporate HQ to clean up the scams (which ebay profits off of).
    There must be other, better auction sites out there, are there? Or does ebay pretty much have a worldwide monopoly?

  10. #10
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    What are other good sites like e-bay? What are good bidding tricks?
    Look & Listen

  11. #11
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Not sure how much of a 'steal' that was, I see them normally going for $250-$300 so $310 is normal price.

    How long have you been using Ebay?

  12. #12
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    This time you're totally wrong for a fact NAbsentia

    [QUOTE=N. Abstentia]Not sure how much of a 'steal' that was, I see them normally going for $250-$300 so $310 is normal price.

    Pray tell you show me where a very good Denon 3801 with remote is going for $250-$300. If you check the prices on Ebay under completed items you'll find they sold for between $350- $425 plus shipping with most of them going to the higher range.

    If you know of some site where you can get these cheaper as you are stating- we are not talking about broken Denon 3801 receivers but ones that are in very good condition with a remote, for the range you quote please let the board know. I will then proclaim you as my
    Audio God!


  13. #13
    AR Member JeffKnob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    Please elaborate. Yes, Ebay will bid your maximum amount which is good if you can't be at your computer during the final minute ot so but is essentially to me worthless & a bad tactical
    move. Let's say I decided I was willing to buy this Denon receiver at $375 maximum & will not have access to the computer the last hour of auction. I then place a bid on the first day of auction. What have I essentially accomplished other than bidding up an item and even then there is no guarantee this will help me win the item. IE, let's say that as a result of my $375 bid, on day 4 of a 7 day auction, bidding is now at $350 with me on top, by day 7 bidding could very well be at $380, As I have no acccess to the computer, I can't up my bid a few more dollars. So all I did was up the price of the auction & didn't win anything. Alternatively, let's say I do win the item at $375. In all likelyhood if I did not place a bid until the last few items instead, I still could have won the auction at a much lower price if I had not bid prices up.

    I buy and sell autographs online from a well known large auction place & the way they do things which is the fairest way is that they only permit you to bid in the last 2 hours if you had made a bid prior to this. Ebay could do this but choses not to and it would result in fairer competition. Ebay also permits both deadbeat sellers and bidders to continue on Ebay after an offense which is ridiculous as it involves screwing someone over money.
    So if you were to hold off until the last minute to bid on something the other people bidding on it wouldn't have bid on it in the mean time. Using your first example, your bid would have never gotten to $375 if other people didn't bid too, so if you had just waited and not bid until later on the price would have been lower because obviously the other people interested would've know not to bid either so that you could get the good price. That just doesn't make sense to me. I am guessing you mean that if you wait until later in the auction you will be able to find the items that are still at a low price because people either aren't interested or have not noticed it. In that case then I would agree that you could get a lower price.

    Alternatively, let's say I do win the item at $375. In all likelyhood if I did not place a bid until the last few items instead, I still could have won the auction at a much lower price if I had not bid prices up.
    So if this were to happen would the other bidders have just not existed or would you have just gone to a different auction that was lower?

    I just need clarification because what you said doesn't make sense.

  14. #14
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    Are there any good alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    What are other good sites like e-bay? What are good bidding tricks?
    The one thing I'll say about Ebay is the concept and implemation is excellent. The bad thing is customer service is a joke (there is an Ebay phone number if you google for it!), it basically in my opinion encourages fraud & shill bids by sellers and nonpayment by bidders by not immediately kicking these people off and allowing them to do a second offense, and its bidding system is a joke.

    Shokhead to me as I said, the only strategy to use Ebay is: 1. To purchase an item that you can not get anywhere else, 2. to get something at a considerable savings that you couldn't find cheaper somewhere else, 3. to get something used but in very good working condition at a relatively cheap price. I would then regularly use Ebays search engines and if you see something you want put it under "Watch". If you are then going to have access to a computer when the auction closes, bid your maximum amount in the final 10 seconds of the auction (have everything ready so all you have to do is click). Do not bid on anything from someone who does not have good feedback or any feedback history. If something seems too good to be true, it is, don't bid. If you don't have access to a computer when the auction ends, chances are someone will outbid your maximum. If you want to get real sneaky contact the seller direct and offer to buy from him in a private deal which he may or may not do.

    Good luck

  15. #15
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Guaranteed "sniping" or waiting until the last minute does not significantly alter the final buying price on most of the time. Highest bidder still wins whether they bid 4 days in advance or in a panic in the last minute.
    If ebay thought sniping was causing lower selling prices (which ebay profits off of in proportion), they wouldn't be sponsoring sniping sites or allowing it to happen.

    You can do quite well on ebay with some things if you know exactly what you're looking for. I bought some Marshall amps and a few guitars within my first 2 weeks of ebay membership. It's almost like gambling - addictive.

  16. #16
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    I agree about someone getting addicted to Ebay- it's fun, but sometimes you need to remember you're dealing with money. In the past, I bid just to see how high I can get someone else's price- that's how I ended up with some extra Def Tech speakers (still got a great deal, more than 1/2 off of msrp, but didn't need them), haha!

    I found some great deals on Ebay, but I'm sure I also overpaid on a few things.

  17. #17
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    "I just need clarification because what you said doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]

    I honestly don't quite understand what you are saying either, no disrespect intended, but I'll try to clarify my remarks.

    Strategy 1- You have access to a computer for the closing of an item you wish to get on Ebay.

    Let's assume for arguments sake a Denon 3801 has the minimum $50 bid on the first day. Based on its selling history on Ebay similar ones in the same condition have sold for $350-$425. In scenario 1 no one else bids until the final 10 seconds. You bid the maximum you're willing to pay, say $400. A few people do the same but they've bid $300 tops. You then win the auction for $310 (on Ebay you win by an incremental amount over the next highest bidder not necessarily your max).. Scenario 2 The usual idiot Ebay scenario It is now day 3 and there are 10 bids and the highest bid is now $100. You bid say your $400 maximum. Between day 3 and the closing, the odds are good someone will keep bidding up and they reach your $400 or exceed it. You then either win your auction at $400 or you say what the hell and then increase your bid another $20 or so in the finals seconds. You win the auction but this time are paying $100 more than you would have in Scenario 1.

    Strategy 2- You Do not Have Access to a Computer for the Closing of an auction

    So its now day 3 of the auction and you bid your $400 maximum, the highest bid was $100. Your bid is now listed at say $120 because ebay increases bids by increments over the next highest bidder. Under this scenario you will either get your item at close to your maximum or lose the item to someone who will pay even higher in the last 10 seconds of the auction. If anything your bid may even reflect that.

    Buy it Now Some Remarks

    If there is an item I'd like say like a Denon 3801 and I can use the Buy it Now Feature and pay say $425 for it instead of taking my chances with a bidding auction and maybe saving $15-$35 or so, if it retailed new for $1200, yeah its worth it to me to just use But it Now then go through the hassels of saving a few bucks especially as I'm saving alot anyway and I've definately won it.

  18. #18
    Forum Regular Peter_Klim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    These cretins do not seem to realize that. In my case I lucked out here, as 25 people bid stupidly early on and I just bid once in the final 10 seconds.
    You should eat those 25 cretins for breakfast...or have you already,Mr Gein?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_Klim
    You should eat those 25 cretins for breakfast...or have you already,Mr Gein?
    Yum Yum They make good ash trays too!

  20. #20
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    http://www.htguide.com/forum/archive/index.php4/t-10270

    Took about 10 seconds worth of Googling.

    Now am I your audio God? Believe it or not, Ebay is not the only place on earth to buy electronics.



    [QUOTE=EdwardGein]
    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Not sure how much of a 'steal' that was, I see them normally going for $250-$300 so $310 is normal price.

    Pray tell you show me where a very good Denon 3801 with remote is going for $250-$300. If you check the prices on Ebay under completed items you'll find they sold for between $350- $425 plus shipping with most of them going to the higher range.

    If you know of some site where you can get these cheaper as you are stating- we are not talking about broken Denon 3801 receivers but ones that are in very good condition with a remote, for the range you quote please let the board know. I will then proclaim you as my
    Audio God!


  21. #21
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Maybe those people aren't as stupid as you think, and they know that $310 is too much to pay for such an old reciever...which is why you weren't outbid.

  22. #22
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    NAbventia You Need Serious Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Maybe those people aren't as stupid as you think, and they know that $310 is too much to pay for such an old reciever...which is why you weren't outbid.
    First off your link wasn't to an auction site but to someone who posted something up on a board with no background (ie feedback history etc.) selling a denon 3801 in good condition that doesn't include a remote and instruction book.

    That and 50 cents will get you on a subway. Dude, I really don't know what your problem is but you sometimes open your mouth just to make people look bad without any support behind what you say.

    In regards for the Denon 3801 being old worthless etc., keep dreaming.

    I'm not even going to get into a debate on this. I don't understand how this board deteriorated so much in the past year.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Actually a board like that can be better than Ebay because it's more of a community. Everybody knows everybody and generally people are more educated and mature. If you think Ebay is 100% safe I've got some beachfront property to sell you. Plus you never said it had to be an auction site, you just said that a 3801 has never been sold for $300 anywhere and you dared anyone to show you where it had been done before. There it is. What now?

    Acutally that ad says pretty much in plain English "includes remote". Did you choose to miss that? The manual can be downloaded in about 1 minute.

    I know ONE reason why this board has deteriorated in the past year. I remember 3 months ago you thought a $199 JVC receiver/DVD player/toaster was the best thing you had ever heard and nothing could touch it and anybody who said otherwise was (according to you) a freaking moron. Now look...you found a $299 receiver that's the best thing you've ever heard and nothing could possibly be any better. I'd hate to see you if you were to ever get a real high end reciever..or God forbid..seperates.

  24. #24
    JSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    First off your link wasn't to an auction site but to someone who posted something up on a board with no background (ie feedback history etc.) selling a denon 3801 in good condition that doesn't include a remote and instruction book.

    That and 50 cents will get you on a subway. Dude, I really don't know what your problem is but you sometimes open your mouth just to make people look bad without any support behind what you say.

    In regards for the Denon 3801 being old worthless etc., keep dreaming.

    I'm not even going to get into a debate on this. I don't understand how this board deteriorated so much in the past year.

    Your an idiot!

  25. #25
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Hmmmmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    I'm not even going to get into a debate on this. I don't understand how this board deteriorated so much in the past year.
    Isn't that just about when you started posting under your Hershon moniker?

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