• 03-24-2011, 07:19 PM
    Mr Peabody
    Hey, PS3 users, is this normal?
    My friend has a top model Samsung LED and uses a PS3 for Blu-ray playback. When I went to check out his new set he popped in Avatar, the picture looked more like a video game than a movie. My son also told me some of his friends weren't happy with Blu-ray so when I asked why he described the same issue. I told him to remember my BDP looks great so tell them not to blame the format. This really got me to wondering if this was normal for the PS3 or if maybe there could be a setting not correct on either the PS3 or the TV's? The
    PS3 gets recommended around here but if this is the PQ then I don't see how in good conscience it could be recommended as the main BDP. Sure it has the ability but when wanting the best picture it seems maybe a stand alone would be best. If this is not the norm any idea what could be wrong? Just FYI my friend is using a BJC HDMI cable.
  • 03-25-2011, 07:18 AM
    yogo
    torch mode
    Could it be he has his TV set up in "torch mode"?

    That is the view setting used in stores to sell sets using brigthened contrast, color cranked up, etc.

    I can see how a Bluray movie in torch mode would look "cartoony".
  • 03-25-2011, 07:40 AM
    SlumpBuster
    Avatar is a cartoon...just sayin'.

    I don't have a PS3 but I've watched movies on one and it was fine. I would try a different disc. If it still looks cartoony while watching a Paul Giamatti or Coen Bros movie then I would look at the TV first.
  • 03-25-2011, 09:12 AM
    GMichael
    I agree with the cartoon comment.
    Are the settings on the PS3 and LCD right?
  • 03-25-2011, 09:28 AM
    Woochifer
    You're sniffin' up the wrong tree. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the PS3 -- its Blu-ray performance is fine.

    The symptoms you describe point directly at the TV, which likely has the motion interpolation function (Samsung calls it Motion/Movie Plus) switched on by default. Motion interpolation comes with 120/240 Hz TVs and smooths out the moving images, but seriously degrades the picture quality by making everything look like it was shot on a cheap video camcorder.

    120 Hz TVs are supposed to reduce judder with film sources because they eliminate the need for 2:3 pulldown. But, these TVs go a step further by adding the motion interpolation as an additional measure to further smooth out the motion. It degrades the image quality because with a 120 Hz TV it inserts interpolated images into 4 out of every 5 frames, and the processors are not up to the task.

    With Avatar in particular, I've seen 120 Hz LED-LCD demos using that movie where the motion interpolation creates visible macroblocking and other artifacts that I don't see at all when playing that disc on my TV. Avatar is reference quality material, and the motion interpolation just isn't up to the task.

    Samsung HDTVs allow you to disable or adjust the motion interpolation. IMO, every HDTV owner should switch it off as a first step if they want to see the picture as originally intended.
  • 03-25-2011, 09:58 AM
    Mr Peabody
    Thanks for letting me know the PS3 is A-OK. Wooch, it sounds like you nailed it. When I get a chance I'll have to view a diferent movie with him and mention checking that setting.
  • 03-25-2011, 11:03 AM
    pixelthis
    1 Attachment(s)
    IT WAS the movie, a movie I CAN'T STAND, btw.
    Looks like a SATURDAY MORNING CARTOON, some of the Bugs Bunny stuff looked
    better, IMHO.
    BTW, the only way to check out any playback device is with a live disc, with real
    scenes and people. Animation is a variable.:1:
  • 03-25-2011, 12:11 PM
    bobsticks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pixelthis
    BTW, the only way to check out any playback device is with a live disc, with real
    scenes and people. Animation is a variable.:1:

    I would tend to agree with this. The Pixar stuff can be gorgeous but the true test comes with playback of IMO comes with playback of live or minimally cut material.

    I'd also echo the previous sentiments about checking the television's settings...hell, check the cabling too (are they even using an HDMI?)...I've used the PS3 for Blu playback and it can be outstanding.
  • 03-25-2011, 01:39 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pixelthis
    IT WAS the movie, a movie I CAN'T STAND, btw.
    Looks like a SATURDAY MORNING CARTOON, some of the Bugs Bunny stuff looked
    better, IMHO.
    BTW, the only way to check out any playback device is with a live disc, with real
    scenes and people. Animation is a variable.:1:

    Actually Avatar was live action. They used motion capture to for human motion, and painted blue skin over the actors. Only the background is full CG. It does not look like a Saturday morning cartoon, those are 2D hand painted affairs.

    Real scenes and people can be altered. Contrast could be pumped, colors shifted, different film stock can be used, or it can be filmed with a digital camera. All of these things have the potential of alter any film's look. Test patterns and various testing discs do a better job than real scenes and people. It is the only thing that is based on standards.
  • 03-28-2011, 12:32 AM
    pixelthis
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Actually Avatar was live action. They used motion capture to for human motion, and painted blue skin over the actors. Only the background is full CG. It does not look like a Saturday morning cartoon, those are 2D hand painted affairs.

    Real scenes and people can be altered. Contrast could be pumped, colors shifted, different film stock can be used, or it can be filmed with a digital camera. All of these things have the potential of alter any film's look. Test patterns and various testing discs do a better job than real scenes and people. It is the only thing that is based on standards.


    Give me a break.
    AVATAR was "live action" in name only. VERY LITTLE, even the "live" sections,
    were put on the screen unchanged.
    TRUE test patterns and such are the best, but try that in a store.
    If you are going to use a disc to shop for gear, a live action is best. THERE is no
    real world reference to what is going on in a cartoon, doesnt matter how that cartoon
    was made, either with motion capture, cells, clay-mation, whatever.:1:
  • 03-28-2011, 10:06 AM
    winston
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    My friend has a top model Samsung LED and uses a PS3 for Blu-ray playback. When I went to check out his new set he popped in Avatar, the picture looked more like a video game than a movie. My son also told me some of his friends weren't happy with Blu-ray so when I asked why he described the same issue. I told him to remember my BDP looks great so tell them not to blame the format. This really got me to wondering if this was normal for the PS3 or if maybe there could be a setting not correct on either the PS3 or the TV's? The
    PS3 gets recommended around here but if this is the PQ then I don't see how in good conscience it could be recommended as the main BDP. Sure it has the ability but when wanting the best picture it seems maybe a stand alone would be best. If this is not the norm any idea what could be wrong? Just FYI my friend is using a BJC HDMI cable.

    Mr PeaBody, I don't if this happen to anyone around here, "but when Avatar was released, Walmart was selling the DVD & blu-ray set $20.00 which is still a good price after all these months

    (however I had to returned the disc "twice" the first disc the blu-ray was as you described it. the DVD copy was not playable, I took it back to walmart the second set also had issues with the DVD disc.I went back to wally again , "you know the drill customer service first then to the back of the store to find another disc!!" long story short, the manager open and played the third copy after viewing the returns that one was OK "she then gave me a free BR copy of star trek:D

    and for the record theres two PS3 in my household a 160 & 250 I don't used them personally "but when I hang out with the guys, games, BR,streaming all looks great on the PS3.
  • 03-28-2011, 11:59 AM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by winston
    Mr PeaBody, I don't if this happen to anyone around here, "but when Avatar was released, Walmart was selling the DVD & blu-ray set $20.00 which is still a good price after all these months

    Yeah, you had a big time price war when Avatar first came out. For a title that hotly anticipated, stores and web sites will sell it close to or below wholesale cost so they can capitalize on all the foot and web traffic. The original edition of Avatar maxed out the bitrate with no extras, so it quickly became a go-to demo disc.

    I waited for the three-disc Extended Edition. It also cost me $20 on the week of release, and while it didn't come with the DVD version, I'd rather have the extra footage and all the documentaries.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by winston
    (however I had to returned the disc "twice" the first disc the blu-ray was as you described it. the DVD copy was not playable, I took it back to walmart the second set also had issues with the DVD disc.I went back to wally again , "you know the drill customer service first then to the back of the store to find another disc!!" long story short, the manager open and played the third copy after viewing the returns that one was OK "she then gave me a free BR copy of star trek:D

    I recall that Avatar had some compatibility issues with Samsung BD players (and Samsung has had more of these issues than anyone). As I said, the issue that Peabody described sounded more like the TV settings than anything having to do with the PS3 or Blu-ray.

    With all these DVD/BD combo packs out there, I guess that stores have stockpiles of extra discs that got returned alongside the defective ones. That's the downside of these multidisc sets -- if one doesn't play, you have to return all of them.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by winston
    and for the record theres two PS3 in my household a 160 & 250 I don't used them personally "but when I hang out with the guys, games, BR,streaming all looks great on the PS3.

    Yep, quite a versatile machine. For Blu-ray playback, it remains one of the highest performing, fastest loading, highest compatibility, and most futureproof BD players. I also use the PS3 for audio streaming, Netflix videos, and occasional forays into the Playstation Life virtual neighborhood. I actually seldom use it for gaming.
  • 03-28-2011, 02:26 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Give me a break.
    AVATAR was "live action" in name only. VERY LITTLE, even the "live" sections,
    were put on the screen unchanged.
    TRUE test patterns and such are the best, but try that in a store.
    If you are going to use a disc to shop for gear, a live action is best. THERE is no
    real world reference to what is going on in a cartoon, doesnt matter how that cartoon
    was made, either with motion capture, cells, clay-mation, whatever.:1:

    Pix, your knowledge of film follows your knowledge of anything else....ZERO. My children know more about film making than you do.
  • 03-29-2011, 10:34 PM
    Enochrome
    Woochifer is right.

    I have a PS3 and it is still considered one of the "reference" blue ray players. Think about it in terms of Sony invented Blu-Ray and the PS3 around the same time, they out of anyone would know how to create a industry standard in order to promote the very industry itself in it's infancy.

    It's the TV, take the motion setting off, or could be that blu-ray and LCD/LED stink period. I hope the setting switch corrects that problem, so I could be wrong about the latter comment.

    We bought a new Samung LED and blu-ray player for our library (where I work) and my co-worker and I put in Avatar to see how it looked and we had the same impression that you did Mr. Peabody: cartoony blue screen effect, along with blurred motion. We both thought that 1080p LCD with Blu-Ray is pretty much a bad direction for "cinema" quality. So, much that I opted to get a 720p plasma instead, and I am pleased as punch.

    Blu-Ray is amazing for sound though.

    PS3 is such a good blu-ray player that Criterion uses it as their reference player for when they remaster movies; that's saying something.

    Avatar is big giant video game of a movie anyways, so maybe it isn't so weird when it looks cartoony :)
  • 03-30-2011, 11:41 AM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enochrome
    Woochifer is right.

    I have a PS3 and it is still considered one of the "reference" blue ray players. Think about it in terms of Sony invented Blu-Ray and the PS3 around the same time, they out of anyone would know how to create a industry standard in order to promote the very industry itself in it's infancy.

    Keep in mind that Blu-ray was developed by an entire consortium of consumer electronics companies, not just Sony. Yes, Sony was one of the leading proponents of the format, but some companies, like LG, actually have more patents in the Blu-ray licensing pool than Sony.

    The PS3 was developed independently, with a whole slew of other technologies like the Cell processor, and it's considered a reference Blu-ray player because it could implement performance upgrades and new features via software updates. Standalone Blu-ray players rely on dedicated system-on-chip processors to handle the major functions, whereas the PS3 uses a general-purpose processor (with highly optimized graphics processing) and all of the functions are done using upgradable software.

    Another consideration is that every Blu-ray production house uses PS3s for quality control and compatibility testing. Reason for this is simple -- about half of all Blu-ray players out there are PS3s, which means that if a Blu-ray title can play well on the PS3, it plays well on half of all Blu-ray players, period.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enochrome
    It's the TV, take the motion setting off, or could be that blu-ray and LCD/LED stink period. I hope the setting switch corrects that problem, so I could be wrong about the latter comment.

    We bought a new Samung LED and blu-ray player for our library (where I work) and my co-worker and I put in Avatar to see how it looked and we had the same impression that you did Mr. Peabody: cartoony blue screen effect, along with blurred motion. We both thought that 1080p LCD with Blu-Ray is pretty much a bad direction for "cinema" quality. So, much that I opted to get a 720p plasma instead, and I am pleased as punch.

    When I saw Avatar demoed on a Samsung LED-LCD TV, the Motion Plus setting on that TV was probably set to maximum. It looked horrible. Aside from the dreaded "soap opera effect" that motion interpolation creates, it smooths out the motion by blurring the fine detail and creating visible pixelation during fast action scenes.

    Samsung's LED-LCD sets can look pretty good, but you absolutely have to turn the motion interpolation off. Otherwise, it looks ridiculous.
  • 03-31-2011, 11:06 AM
    pixelthis
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Pix, your knowledge of film follows your knowledge of anything else....ZERO. My children know more about film making than you do.

    IF THEY are in their thirties, maybe.
    I DON'T HAVE TO ARGUE WITH YOU, you have some knowledge, but youor pedantic
    and rigid way of thinking renders it just about useless.:1: