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  1. #1
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    Talking HDMI 1.4 available in 2010

    Hello below are details of the new 1.4 version with details which explains the changes.

    http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...i_1_4_faq.aspx

    I will not go into details of manufacturers that supply HDMI cables which support the speed demand of 1.4 to avoid bias for the purpose of this thead only.

    So what does that mean to you ? Hold off getting that new Blu Ray recorder/player ?

    It should impact marketing and advertising in new ways most people would not dream of. The 3D application itself will be a good eye opener. Watching commercials in 3D ? Taking the look of a new car through a 3D perspective. Watching some new Star Wars/Trek flick in 3D, on a magical D-Box chair. The HDMI 1.4 + 3D movies + + D-Box chair experience. That will literally bring back families to the movie theatres.
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  2. #2
    Forum Regular frahengeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    Hello below are details of the new 1.4 version with details which explains the changes.

    http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...i_1_4_faq.aspx

    I will not go into details of manufacturers that supply HDMI cables which support the speed demand of 1.4 to avoid bias for the purpose of this thead only.

    So what does that mean to you ? Hold off getting that new Blu Ray recorder/player ?

    It should impact marketing and advertising in new ways most people would not dream of. The 3D application itself will be a good eye opener. Watching commercials in 3D ? Taking the look of a new car through a 3D perspective. Watching some new Star Wars/Trek flick in 3D, on a magical D-Box chair. The HDMI 1.4 + 3D movies + + D-Box chair experience. That will literally bring back families to the movie theatres.
    My thoughts: Too many changes too soon. People are slow to change or don't want to change at all. The angry and confused consumer will refuse to buy in. I think that blu-ray is suffering this syndrome now.
    It's a disease, really.
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  3. #3
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frahengeo
    My thoughts: Too many changes too soon. People are slow to change or don't want to change at all. The angry and confused consumer will refuse to buy in. I think that blu-ray is suffering this syndrome now.
    Please explain why you think Blu-ray is suffer from too many changes too soon? All new players are 2.0 profile now, and nothing new or different has been introduced to the format.

    Besides the new HDMI standard does not rendered the old 1.3a standard obsolete. This new HDMI standard is a forward thinking upgrade, not a completely new incarnation. Any Blu-ray player with a 1.3a interface(all of the new and most of the second generation) will still play Blu-ray discs, and if you wanted to upconvert the 1080p signal to a higher resolution the display could easily do it without changing your player.

    Everyone get's so freaked out about HDMI and its upgraded incarnations because they don't understand much about it. It reminds me of the current health care discussions. Every is running scared steep in ignorance, instead of researching how these changes will truly effect them. Half of the upgrades in the new standards are directed at manufacturers and not consumers. The only accommodations aimed at consumers are 4K video and 3D, two formats who's standards have not even been developed, agreed, or even incorporated in any new product.

    Incorporating the new upgrades will be seamless to consumers, and you probably won't even notice it as it is still backwards compatible with 1.3a which we currently use.

    Considering that Blu-ray players sales are up almost 200% from last years at this time, it doesn't seem to me that anyone has been all that paralyzed about buying a player.

    D-box was available with HDMI standard 1.1, so the new standard means nothing to that enhancement.
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  4. #4
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile

    So what does that mean to you ?
    ...meh

  5. #5
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    ...meh
    Exactly. The Chicken Little syndrome in full effect!
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  6. #6
    Forum Regular frahengeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Please explain why you think Blu-ray is suffer from too many changes too soon? All new players are 2.0 profile now, and nothing new or different has been introduced to the format.
    I think that the format has been relatively stable thus far. Some hardware/software incompatibilities, but no permanent damage. I, for one, bought into the technology.
    I was referring to the syndrome of the angry and confused consumer. Although, blu-ray is 3 years in the making, my perception is that it hasn't gained as wide an acceptance as DVDs did.
    With DVDs, people could see an immediate difference with their SD televisions. This coupled with a relatively simple and inexpensive HTiB upgrade made it fairly desirable for the everyday guy. Also, are 1080P televisions found in most homes? I'm guessing not. Also, they are not willing to buy another copy of their favorite movie in Blu-ray.
    Then, tell them about the new iteration and features that are not supported by their recently purchased blu-ray player, and you will have the angry and confused consumer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Considering that Blu-ray players sales are up almost 200% from last years at this time, it doesn't seem to me that anyone has been all that paralyzed about buying a player.
    200% of what? The pricing is certainly helping that. Maybe consumers were buying a replacement or simply adding another player to play DVDs and not blu-ray. What about the sales of blu-ray movies? What are those figures looking like?
    What's the projection for stand-alone blu-ray players for 09'? In the 3rd year of DVD, sales were >4,000,000 players for 1999, so we shall see.
    Again, I bought into this technology and will probably continue to adopt newer formats as long as its sound. This simply is my take on the public's perception.
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  7. #7
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frahengeo
    I think that the format has been relatively stable thus far. Some hardware/software incompatibilities, but no permanent damage. I, for one, bought into the technology.
    I was referring to the syndrome of the angry and confused consumer. Although, blu-ray is 3 years in the making, my perception is that it hasn't gained as wide an acceptance as DVDs did.
    With DVDs, people could see an immediate difference with their SD televisions. This coupled with a relatively simple and inexpensive HTiB upgrade made it fairly desirable for the everyday guy. Also, are 1080P televisions found in most homes? I'm guessing not. Also, they are not willing to buy another copy of their favorite movie in Blu-ray.
    Then, tell them about the new iteration and features that are not supported by their recently purchased blu-ray player, and you will have the angry and confused consumer.
    I hate to burst your bubble Frahengeo, but according to NDP Blu-ray player sales are now far ahead of what DVD players sales three years after each formats introduction. This is in spite of the fact Blu-ray has had to endure a steep economic downturn. Bundling of a player with a high def television has really helped sales as well.

    When you had VHS and Laserdisc as a comparison, DVD had if fairly easy in terms of seeing a upgrade of video. I would advance that those that cannot see the difference between DVD and Blu-ray don't know what to look for. A lot of folks do not sit the proper distance from their screens to see the added detail, and let's face it most folks were watching CRT based monitors at 480i resolution. I have the ability to sync two players frame for frame and used my two oppo players(one upconverting the signal of a DVD to 1080p the other with a Blu-ray release of the same video) in a split screen over my properly calibrated projector and Kuros display sitting at the proper distance from the screen. There has not been a single person that has seen this demo that has not noticed a big upgrade in PQ under those conditions. Most people do not properly calibrate their displays, nor do they store the proper calibration setting for Blu-ray and DVD which use a different colorspace, nor have they use Blu-ray based calibration disc to calibrate their sets. They are making comparison and coming to conclusions based on improper conditions.


    200% of what? The pricing is certainly helping that. Maybe consumers were buying a replacement or simply adding another player to play DVDs and not blu-ray. What about the sales of blu-ray movies? What are those figures looking like?
    It is the software sales that show that the formats influence is spreading to more consumers(market penitration). Player sales are not a good gauge, and I am a perfect example of that. Most Blu-ray titles are commonly becoming 20% of overall disc title sales with some titles as high as 40% of overall disc sales. In the first two quarters of this year Blu-ray titles have sold more than all of last year. With Blu-ray software sales up about 20-25% for all studios, and DVD sales down close to 12% for some studios, and down 40% with others, you can plainly see the market shift from SD to HD. The Dark Knight Blu-ray represented 40% of overall disc sales. Transformers had similar results for Paramount.

    The shift is so noticeable that studio are now beginning to offer the Blu-ray release before their DVD counterparts are released. Another way to gauge the shift is that studios are beginning to include extra material on their Blu-ray releases that are not offered on their DVD disc. Replication facility all over the world are seeing their revenue for DVD's dropping while watching their revenue on Blu-ray release steadily increase. Mastering and encoding facilities are also experiencing the same shift in revenue. When you combine all of this data together you can definitely see the market penetration growing while DVD's is shrinking. When I look at myself personally(I am an early adopter, and a disc buyer) I have not purchased a single DVD in three years, while my collection of Blu-ray disc has now swelled to close to 800 discs. A lot of film and video enthusiasts are following suit, completely abandoning the DVD format for Blu-ray.

    What's the projection for stand-alone blu-ray players for 09'? In the 3rd year of DVD, sales were >4,000,000 players for 1999, so we shall see.
    Again, I bought into this technology and will probably continue to adopt newer formats as they develop. This simply is my take on the public's perception.
    The last estimates I have seen show 5 million players (not counting the PS3) projected for 2009, and double to 10 million in 2010. With the slim PS3 coming in $299, this surely to boost player sales as it does have a Blu-ray drive, and is considered a player as well as a gaming machine. Even Toshiba is paying attention to what is happening with Blu-ray. I just saw their application to enter the BDA at the last meeting. Now when your format opponent who vowed never to enter the Blu-ray market changes it's collective mind, this must mean something! LOL
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  8. #8
    Forum Regular frahengeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I hate to burst your bubble Frahengeo, but according to NDP Blu-ray player sales are now far ahead of what DVD players sales three years after each formats introduction. This is in spite of the fact Blu-ray has had to endure a steep economic downturn. Bundling of a player with a high def television has really helped sales as well.
    No bubbles being burst here. My work doesn't involve consumer electronics...my ego won't be hurt. Just simply stating my opinion.

    400,000 units vs. 360,000 DVD units (Q1 09' vs. Q1 99') is hardly a landslide. What's hard to determine is whether those blu-ray players sold will be used to play blu-ray or the old DVD library. The price difference between blu-ray and dvd player is negligible, so why not buy a blu even if there are no intentions of getting blu software.
    Since you seem privy to certain information, how do blu-ray title sales fare against DVD title sales (Q1 09' vs. Q1 99') in terms of units sold.
    Blu-ray sales despite economic downturn argument is weak. DVD sales continued to rise despite the dotcom bubble burst. Things that suffer during a recession are big ticket items such as home sales/improvements, vacations, and auto purchases.
    Back to the original argument...Iterations/revisions make the average consumer a skeptic. Yes. Ignorance may be to blamed, but throw a bunch a technical jargon at em' and they will stop in their tracks. Mention HDMI 1.4, and maybe the potential consumer will decide to wait it out. Again, my opinion, I bought into the technology, so I hope I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    When you had VHS and Laserdisc as a comparison, DVD had if fairly easy in terms of seeing a upgrade of video. I would advance that those that cannot see the difference between DVD and Blu-ray don't know what to look for.
    ??? Hard for anyone to dispute PQ of blu-ray. My earlier point was that DVD offered huge improvements in both picture and sound at a relatively low cost. DVD prices dropped very quickly to VHS levels and below.
    Adoption of blu-ray asks the consumer to replace almost everything they have (TV, receiver, source component, software, and eventually, more speakers), then you want to tell em' that the next iteration is coming in 2010...Hmmm.
    Projected sales figures are always interesting. Its fairly difficult to predict the human emotion. I worked in automotive R&D and had access to projected automotive sales data. Not exactly reliable information. Okay. Enough from me and we shall see.
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  9. #9
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frahengeo
    No bubbles being burst here. My work doesn't involve consumer electronics...my ego won't be hurt. Just simply stating my opinion.
    No problem, it's just a discussion.

    400,000 units vs. 360,000 DVD units (Q1 09' vs. Q1 99') is hardly a landslide.
    I didn't include the PS3 in those figures, it is a Blu-ray player as well. 1.6 million PS3 were sold in that same period, so it was a landslide.

    What's hard to determine is whether those blu-ray players sold will be used to play blu-ray or the old DVD library.
    It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It's a sold player. And with Bluray software sales steadily increasing, it should be pretty obvious what they are playing on them.

    The price difference between blu-ray and dvd player is negligible, so why not buy a blu even if there are no intentions of getting blu software.
    Since you seem privy to certain information, how do blu-ray title sales fare against DVD title sales (Q1 09' vs. Q1 99') in terms of units sold.
    That would not be a fare argument. It is disingenuous to compare the sales figures unit wise from an emerging product(with a much lower penetration rate) to an already established product(with a huge market penetration and 10 years jump start). That is not the proper way to show a sales trend. Surely with over 200 million or more players, DVD will outsell Blu-ray on a per unit bases, that is common sense.

    Blu-ray sales despite economic downturn argument is weak. DVD sales continued to rise despite the dotcom bubble burst. Things that suffer during a recession are big ticket items such as home sales/improvements, vacations, and auto purchases.
    Well, we are in a recession now, and DVD sales either on the player side or the software side are not rising, but Blu-ray players and software sales are. DVD was new and the only game in town back then for digital video, and it is not now. That baton has been passed on to Blu-ray just like the baton passed from VHS to DVD. It may be weak to you, but it is a fact.

    Back to the original argument...Iterations/revisions make the average consumer a skeptic. Yes. Ignorance may be to blamed, but throw a bunch a technical jargon at em' and they will stop in their tracks. Mention HDMI 1.4, and maybe the potential consumer will decide to wait it out. Again, my opinion, I bought into the technology, so I hope I'm wrong.
    Consumers are not a stupid as you try to make them out to be. There is a whole swath of consumers that are very tech savvy, and know how to learn about new technology, technical jargon and all. Most of them know the difference between a connection interface, and the player itself. As long as the format itself has not changed, and how it is used has not changed, the consumer will not be confused. In three years we saw HDMI 1.1, 1.2, 1.2a, 1.3 and 1.3a interfaces implemented on Blu-ray players, and that has not stopped anyone from buying them. We have seen Bluray profiles 1.0, 1.1, and now 2.0 introduced in that same period, and it didn't stop anyone from buying players. Some folks embrace new technology, and some folks will be dragged kicking in to it, others won't buy it. It has always been that way, and I don't think things will change.

    Keep in mind, we had DVD players without the Dts option, and no dual layer playback. Both were added along with progressive scanning, but it required a new player. To take advantage of progressive scanning you had to purchase another television, as most televisions at the time could not display progressive images. None of these things stopped people from adopting DVD.


    ??? Hard for anyone to dispute PQ of blu-ray. My earlier point was that DVD offered huge improvements in both picture and sound at a relatively low cost. DVD prices dropped very quickly to VHS levels and below.
    The prices of Blu-ray players have dropped at the same rate as the prices of DVD players. They were also priced about the same(if not more expensive) when they were introduced. My first DVD player was made by Toshiba, and cost about $1000. By Christmas you will be able to find a low end player for $99 for sure. While DVD could take advantage of the increase in resolution on the video side with your current television, to get that improvement in sound you had to purchase a sound system. There were not a lot of manufacturers offering HTIB in 2000(that is the correct year for three years of DVD, not 1999, DVD was introduced in 1997, not 1996). It is cheaper today to cobble together a system to take advantage of Blu-ray than it was to cobble a system together for DVD if you wanted to take advantage of both visuals and sound.

    Adoption of blu-ray asks the consumer to replace almost everything they have (TV, receiver, source component, software, and eventually, more speakers), then you want to tell em' that the next iteration is coming in 2010...Hmmm.
    This is a pile of bull that needs to be cleaned up. There is no next iteration of Bluray coming in 2010. Don't you know the difference between a player and a digital interface? The format is not going to change, and neither is the connection. HDMI 1.4 is more for the manufacturers than the consumers. Its adoption in new products will be transparent to the consumers. Bluray players will remain the same, their function will remain the same(except a few additional options they can take advantage of, or not), the disc will be the same, and the HDMI cables will able to connect exactly like they do now.

    Most early adopters already had the television and the sound system. Some folks that needed a new television when the old crt broke purchased a flat panel, and later a blu-ray player, and maybe later a HTIB. When I got into Blu-ray, I didn't have to replace my three year old high end based RPTV. It had a HDMI connection(1.1 I might add) as did mostly all RPTV manufactured after 2003. Owners of RPTV's with DVI connections just needed an adopter, not a new television. There is already quite a few folks with 5.1 sound systems thanks to DVD, so most will not have to replace that. Most mid-priced and high priced Bluray players have analog outs so you can add it to an existing non-HDMI receiver.

    Partly because of the DTV transition, and old televisions just wearing out, people are migrating over to flat panel televisions, and buying more 1080p models than 720p models. Then they are purchasing a new Bluray player to get high definition video, and if they want good sound, the get a sound system. It all the consumer choice, and nobody is forcing them to do anything. Your argument is specious at best.

    Projected sales figures are always interesting. Its fairly difficult to predict the human emotion. I worked in automotive R&D and had access to projected automotive sales data. Not exactly reliable information. Okay. Enough from me and we shall see.
    Projected sales are interesting. In 2008 it was predicted that Bluray would sell 1.5 million stand alone players(not counting the PS3). 3 million were sold(not including the PS3). So you are right, they are not exactly reliable.
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  10. #10
    Forum Regular frahengeo's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]No problem, it's just a discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I didn't include the PS3 in those figures, it is a Blu-ray player as well. 1.6 million PS3 were sold in that same period, so it was a landslide.
    Okay. Taking the CY2000 figures then: Q1 00' resulted in 1.18 million units without a game console backing sales, compared to 400,000 units



    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    That would not be a fare argument. It is disingenuous to compare the sales figures unit wise from an emerging product(with a much lower penetration rate) to an already established product(with a huge market penetration and 10 years jump start). That is not the proper way to show a sales trend. Surely with over 200 million or more players, DVD will outsell Blu-ray on a per unit bases, that is common sense.
    No. I'm not speaking about up-to-date title sales of blu-ray vs. lifetime DVD sales. I stated Q1 09' vs. Q1 99' (or Q1 00' as you corrected me.) How do those compare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Well, we are in a recession now, and DVD sales either on the player side or the software side are not rising, but Blu-ray players and software sales are. DVD was new and the only game in town back then for digital video, and it is not now. That baton has been passed on to Blu-ray just like the baton passed from VHS to DVD. It may be weak to you, but it is a fact.
    Just pointing out that economic downturn did not hurt the sales of dvd, and as you point out, blu-ray sales neither. Cannot be used as supporting data. By the way, do you have a personal stake in the success of blu-ray?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Consumers are not a stupid as you try to make them out to be. There is a whole swath of consumers that are very tech savvy, and know how to learn about new technology, technical jargon and all.
    "Stupid"?? Who's putting words in who's mouth? No. Just confused. The change from analog signal broadcasting to digital signal is another example. So much so that it needed to be explained over and over again. People with cable/satellite were questioning whether they needed to buy a digital TV. Not "stupid", just confused.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    This is a pile of bull that needs to be cleaned up. There is no next iteration of Bluray coming in 2010. Don't you know the difference between a player and a digital interface?
    Yes. No problem here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    It all the consumer choice, and nobody is forcing them to do anything.
    Couldn't agree more.
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  11. #11
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=frahengeo][QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]No problem, it's just a discussion.




    Okay. Taking the CY2000 figures then: Q1 00' resulted in 1.18 million units without a game console backing sales, compared to 400,000 units
    Sorry man, you cannot take out the PS3, its a Bluray player just like the standalones. When you combine that 1.6 million to the 400,000 that is still is 2 million, a almost million unit advantage.



    No. I'm not speaking about up-to-date title sales of blu-ray vs. lifetime DVD sales. I stated Q1 09' vs. Q1 99' (or Q1 00' as you corrected me.) How do those compare.
    For DVD in the US and Canada shows sales of 16 million units on shipments of 29.4 units. For Bluray the best figures I have which exclude Walmart and Best Buy show 12 million units sold on 27.8 million units shipped. Since Best Buy is the largest seller of Bluray disc by far, and its next competitor sold 5 million units, it had to sell a lot more than that. That would be at least 17 million units, but likely more than that if BB sold way more than than its next competitor. Without exact figures from BB and Walmart it is difficult to determine exactly how well Bluray has done against against DVD three years out, but the market folks where I work have stated in numerous company newletters it is pretty fairly substantial and definatly noteworthy.


    Just pointing out that economic downturn did not hurt the sales of dvd, and as you point out, blu-ray sales neither. Cannot be used as supporting data. By the way, do you have a personal stake in the success of blu-ray?
    The answer to your question is no.

    "Stupid"?? Who's putting words in who's mouth? No. Just confused. The change from analog signal broadcasting to digital signal is another example. So much so that it needed to be explained over and over again. People with cable/satellite were questioning whether they needed to buy a digital TV. Not "stupid", just confused.
    What a poor example. First the DTV transition was not only a fomat change, but a fundamental change of an entire broadcast system from analog to digital for the entire country in a single event. Nowhere in this change either from the broadcasting side, or the consumer side went smoothly. They are still problems that persist post conversion, and they are very expensive to correct as well. Now how can you logically compare this to a interface change that if you don't mention it, most consumer would not even notice. The player will still play Bluray disc, and your televison and sound system will still give you visuals and sound. Let's face it, this upgrade will only benefit technically savvy videophiles who demand cutting edge audio and video technology such as 4K displays and 3D. It does not make 1080p or 7.1 sound go away, it accommodates the technology of tomorrow, not that of today. If you clearly understood the HDMI 1.4 standard, this would be very clear to you. Players that are 1.3a will be fully compatible with HDMI 1.4 compatible televisions. They just won't be able to deliver the new technology that HDMI 1.4 was designed for. A Bluray player that is HDMI 1.4 rated will still deliver visuals to a television that has a 1.3a transmitter, it just will just ignore the other processes and speeds that the player can send to it. The Bluray format is backward and forwards compatible with all incarnations of the HDMI standards. Those standards were already known when the format was designed, they just could not be implemented because of transmitters and interfaces were not yet developed yet, even though the connection were.



    Yes. No problem here.




    Couldn't agree more.
    See, we can agree and disagree as well. And we can do it without being rude or judgmental of each others character.
    Sir Terrence

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  12. #12
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Frahengeo, you must be fairly new to this site. Not to say your knowledge is wrong or limited, but you are debating a person with studio access. And has been regarded as one of the most reliable sources on AV on this site. Terrence may not be always right, but I never known him to be wrong in this area.
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    All other comments aside...

    Seriously, it would be most interesting to find out how the limits of HDMI 1.4 can be stretched. Movies recorded in 3D ? Well what I'm about to say just isn't the same, but the principle is good...

    Several months back I purchased Jean Michel Jarre Oxygene 30th Anniversary on DVD. They made it possible for the original 70's studio concert to be seen in 3D. The DVD came with two pairs of 3D glasses. Just an interesting experience, some parts of the videos you can see the keyboards right next to you.

    Nothing less than 7.1 surround HD Master Audio will do the 3D movies justice.

    Hopefully within 9 months or so time, the price of Blu Ray movies will be halved, when the new format (if it's on separate media), flooding the market.
    Current System :

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  14. #14
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    Seriously, it would be most interesting to find out how the limits of HDMI 1.4 can be stretched. Movies recorded in 3D ? Well what I'm about to say just isn't the same, but the principle is good...
    If you haven't seen any movies utilizing the current real3D format, you are missing a big treat. No color issues, bright sharp images, and excellent foreground and background spatiality with no headache or eye fatigue. Combine it with great 5.1 sound or 7.1 with a ceiling channel is and would be stunning.

    Several months back I purchased Jean Michel Jarre Oxygene 30th Anniversary on DVD. They made it possible for the original 70's studio concert to be seen in 3D. The DVD came with two pairs of 3D glasses. Just an interesting experience, some parts of the videos you can see the keyboards right next to you.
    Forget that 3D presentation, the new one destined for Blu-ray is WAY, WAY better than this.

    Nothing less than 7.1 surround HD Master Audio will do the 3D movies justice.
    Unfortunately 7.1 as we know it on Blu-ray would be less effective in a movie theater. 7.1 with a mono center back, and a ceiling channel would be much more effective. 7.1 hometheater works because we sit closer to the speakers, and can perceive the stereo effect of a L/R backwall. Those sitting halfway and towards the front of a movie theater would only hear a mono signal because of the distance we sit from these speakers.

    Hopefully within 9 months or so time, the price of Blu Ray movies will be halved, when the new format (if it's on separate media), flooding the market.
    The new format will NOT be on seperate media, it will be on a blu-ray disc. And if there is any player out there that can be firmware upgraded to 3D, it's the PS3. It has USB ports that can be used for the outboard 3D processing and glasses, the format itself already allow two 1080p streams which can be used for left eye and right eyes video streams.
    Sir Terrence

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  15. #15
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    Thanks for the response.

    The new format will NOT be on seperate media, it will be on a blu-ray disc.
    Well that will likely keep the prices of blu-ray up.

    It's most likely that the Australian market will have HDMI 1.4 screens and movies considerably much later than our USA and European counterparts. So I'll have to rely on all of you to describe the full 1.4 experience.

    Would be fantastic if a firmware upgrade is available for PS3. One less component to buy.

    According to the official HDMI website, they address in their FAQ :
    Can older HDMI (v.1.0 - 1.3) devices be firmware-upgraded to take advantage of the new features introduced in HDMI 1.4?

    Probably not. Most of the new features introduced in HDMI 1.4 will require a new HDMI chip to enable, and cannot be upgraded via firmware.
    I hope that's definitely not the case with PS3.

    It would be in the best interest of the HDMI market for PS3 to be firmware upgraded to 1.4, as the software/blu-ray sales will be stimulated more. At the end of the way the potential increase of blu-ray disc sales will far outweigh the additional 1.4 players that will be required instead.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
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    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  16. #16
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    Thanks for the response.



    Well that will likely keep the prices of blu-ray up.
    Not necessarily. 3D Blu-ray players will probably have a premium price to them, and I do not know if we will ever see 4k on Blu-ray disc. That is beyond the spec for the format, and I do not think the BDA has the stomach to change any spec's now. 3D is a possibility because the spec has always had provisions for PIP, and that can easily be made to carry two 1080p streams. 4k projectors have been here already for D-Cinema ( I just bought a Sony 4K for my post production studio) with both Barco and Sony offering one.

    It's most likely that the Australian market will have HDMI 1.4 screens and movies considerably much later than our USA and European counterparts. So I'll have to rely on all of you to describe the full 1.4 experience.
    I think you mean HDMI 1.4 screens and players. And yes, their release will probably start in Japan first (much like recorders) then to the US and European market.

    Would be fantastic if a firmware upgrade is available for PS3. One less component to buy.
    It really depends on if Sony can pull this off. I cannot see why not, the HDMI 1.3 transmitter in the PS3 should be able to handle the data easily, and the Cell processor in it is not really working that hard right now. The standalones present another issue though. They usually carry only enough horsepower to run Java, and decode Dts-HD master audio and Dolby TrueHD through seperate SOC solutions. The PS3 is all software driven, so the horsepower lies in the Cell processor. (which is more powerful than intel's duo core processors by far)

    According to the official HDMI website, they address in their FAQ :


    I hope that's definitely not the case with PS3.
    I think they are referring to the high speed of the new standard, and the ability to handle video rates and resolutions beyond 1080p. While 3D was never apart of the Blu-ray spec, the ability to handle two different 1080p video streams is via PIP. It is probably more complex than I can explain, but a firmware upgrade can include the ability to size the PIP function so you can use half the screen for a left eye 1080p stream, and the other half a right eye 1080p stream. This can be multiplexed together using an external box connected to the USB ports, and wirelessly transmit the shutter instructions to the glasses.

    It would be in the best interest of the HDMI market for PS3 to be firmware upgraded to 1.4, as the software/blu-ray sales will be stimulated more. At the end of the way the potential increase of blu-ray disc sales will far outweigh the additional 1.4 players that will be required instead.
    The PS3 would require a HARDWARE upgrade, not a software. The HDMI transmitter on the PS3 is a HDMI 1.3 transmitter, it would require the transmitter be replaced with the upgraded 1.4 hardware transmitter.

    It really doesn't matter if none of the current players can be upgraded. The encoding on the disc sends metadata instruction for 3D that are completely ignored by players who cannot decode the second stream. All profile 1.1 and 2.0 are required to have two video decoders on board. If the instructions sent from the HDMI 1.4 transmitters are sent to 1.3 HDMI transmitter, anything the 1.3 transmitter cannot handle will be ignored. So you are able to included both a 2D encoding, and a 3D encoding on a single disc, so this piece is fully backwards compatible with current standards. You will likely see a 2D version of the movie, and a 3D version of the movie on the same disc. So 3D will not require a change in specs to get out there, but it will require a new television and players that is for sure. If you have one of the very few monitors out there that can take a 2160p signal at the inputs, and has a 240hz refresh rate, you are good to go. Unfortunately there are only two models that can do this, and they are both aimed at the post production business. The Cell based Sony XBRpro of which I am currently testing in my house for the studio I work for, and the Toshiba Cell based television which can surely do 2160p, but by upconversion within the set. I am not sure it can except a 2160p stream direct though, but I know the Sony can.

    Much like the Blu-ray profiles, and of these HDMI 1.4 enhancements can be rolled out in waves so as not to confuse the consumer like a whole new format or standard would.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

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