HDDVD Got A Terrible Review in Los Angles Newspaper Today

[Woochifer]

The kicker is the pricing scheme. Let's face it. DVD is still really good for most people. Everyone has known HD-DVD would be an evolutionary format, not a revolutionary format like DVD was. As long as these guys don't price themselves out of the market, the format should be fine. So far, prices seem to be reasonable.

I think the industry learned from SACD/DVD-A's mistakes somewhat, at least. I suspect it won't be too long until DVD's just aren't offered much anymore and you won't have a choice but to buy a newer format.

It appears that the industry's about to start hedging its bets on the new formats. I just read that in early-May, Warner will release Rumour Has It on a dual format DVD/HD-DVD flipper disc. No idea if a DVD-only release will accompany the dual format version. This would seem to make sense if the studios want to ensure an orderly transition to the new formats. But, the drawback is that the dual format disc will retail for $40, which is $10 more than a typical new release DVD and $10 more than the other titles that have come out so far on single format HD-DVD.

http://www.avrev.com/news/0406/26.warner.shtml

[noek]

just my experience, my progressive dvd player comes in at 720i and is a much better picture than when it was set at 480p. That being said, even at 720i, when I watch an HD channel at 1080i it is incredibly clear, but not by much more than 720. I can imagine there would be a slight difference, but for me, I notice each resolution.

[drseid]

It appears that the industry's about to start hedging its bets on the new formats. I just read that in early-May, Warner will release Rumour Has It on a dual format DVD/HD-DVD flipper disc. No idea if a DVD-only release will accompany the dual format version. This would seem to make sense if the studios want to ensure an orderly transition to the new formats. But, the drawback is that the dual format disc will retail for $40, which is $10 more than a typical new release DVD and $10 more than the other titles that have come out so far on single format HD-DVD.

http://www.avrev.com/news/0406/26.warner.shtml

Yeah, I thought a dual format disc would be a good idea (just in case either HD-DVD does not pan out, at least you can also play the disc on a regular DVD player)... but if they price the discs like *this* one I would prefer if they would just give up on the idea. The studios would really need to release the discs at the same price as regular HD-DVDs ($29.95 retail for most up to $34.95 retail on the high end) in order for them to gain acceptance by most people who have bought an HD-DVD player or are thinking of doing so IMO.

---Dave

[edtyct]

noek,

True 720p (no such animal as 720i) is a degree crisper than 480p on a 720p display. In most cases, 480p, 720p, and 1080i look remarkably similar on 480p plasmas, but I've seen material recorded in true HD look conspicuously better on 480p displays than 480p material does. If 480 upconverted to 720p by your DVD player looks "much better" on your microdisplay than 480 material, your microdisplay's own scaling/deinterlacing must be truly dreadful. Remember, however, that DVD material upconverted to 720p is not truly hi def; it simply has been processed to be compatible with a display that can show material only at a certain pixel count.

If your satellite or cable receiver is set at 1080i for HD material because your display has a native resolution of 1080i or 1080p, you should set the DVD player to that format as well. Otherwise the TV will have to further upconvert the DVD player's feed from 720p to 1080i, which will probably soften the picture. The difference between 720p and 1080i feeds on monitors that have to scale to one or the other is often not visible to most people. But those anal retentives with magnifying glasses or extra-sensitive large displays might be able to pick out little motion artifacts in unprocessed 1080i that would not be there at 720p.

Your post seems to imply that you can see pure 480, 720, and 1080 feeds, which is rare in consumer components, since they all have native resolutions that require non-native material to be scaled to match it. On a microdisplay, the end result is either 480p, 720p, 768p, 1080i, or 1080p. On the vanishing CRTs, the choices are either 480i/p or 1080i. You never really see the other formats, except as processed.

[nightflier]

The reason I asked about upconversion is because I think this will be the requirement when everything is set to go HD & Digital on the broadcast end. So what we are really left with is how good will the old content (regular 480p DVDs, 480i broadcasts, and the few 720p-native content) look when upconverted to 1080?

If 1080i/p is the new standard resolution, then upconversion quality & processing will be the most important factors. If buying a standard DVD player, the questions will be if it can upconvert, and if so to what resolution, and finally how well. For HD-DVD & Blu-ray players the question should be how well do they upconvert 480p DVDs since that is 99% of the content out there and likely to remain so fo another couple of years.

As far as the sound advantages are concerned, don't flame me, but I think it's all marketing hype. If the "improvement" is going to be like the slight improvement of 7.1 over 6.1, then no thank you. Not for $1000 to get in and an extra $10-20 per disk. I still believe that most consumers would notice more of an improvement with a better set of speakers or more careful calibration than with one of these new formats. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong on this point, I'd sure love to hear a "whole new dimention in sound" but everytime I heard those words in reference to past "improvements," it's been a lot less impressive.

In my opinion, it will be the real, noticeable, visual advantages that will make or break the new formats. Unfortunately, I think the format war is giving movies-on-demand a real party-crasher boost and I won't buy any player until I see who comes out on top. Not to mention, how many consumers have TV's that can display 1080p?

[edtyct]

Night,

Upconversion from broadcast is a non-issue. Lots of programs and signals get upconverted now by displays, DVD players, and broadcast channels. Within a fairly wide corridor, the results are similar and acceptable. It's certainly not going to get worse; processing is improving all of the time. MPEG 4 is on the way, which will help with lingering artifacts. DVD player upconversion is elective; it isn't necessary for HD displays. By the time HD is truly mandated, every broadcast medium will feature it and adapt their content to it. The people with analog TV sets will be the most disadvantaged, though their pictures on small sets need not look too bad, depending on the quality of the D/A converters. Upconversion is no reason to delay HD; in fact, it's worse now than it will be in the future.

[The Tahitijack]

Aside from the technical discussion it will come down the money issue. Today the mass market will not pay $1,000 for a Blue Ray player and may not pay $500 for a HD DVD player after just a few years ago buying a new DVD player. Have you visited your favorite gas statiion this week? They wonder how long until this little wonderful toy is surpassed by the next big thing. Most will certainly will not be savy enough to purchase just the right cables to assure a perfect picture or spend hundreds to have the image dialed in by a pro. Its doubtful these will be properly explained and offered in a big box store or Costco. For the masses DVD was a big price/value jump from VHS but they could see a dramatic improvement in image and the player was cheep. The move from the little screen to the big screen was a major financial hit and most said ok we have the big screen, surround sound, reciever and dvd so they will continue satisfied with DVD and cautious of new voodoo for a while, maybe long enough to kill demand and new technology. Another concern mentioned above is that software will initially be limited. Even though most titles are easy to find on DVD mass market consumers have started to turn away from the rental stores in favor of on demand programing which can be enjoyed without the need for two visits to the video store or setting up a mail order plan. As the brodcast system shifts to HD programing in 2009 you have to consider most families will rather buy an HD movie on demand rather than pay between $500-$1000 for a player plus software at $20 per. The future is HD movies on demand and/or downloadable. Look no further than the ipod to see what will happen with movies.

[edtyct]

These are good points. The future certainly promises entertainment delivery systems that will make DVDs and their associated hardware seem positively prehistoric. But in the indeterminate meantime, the old school still exists. Consider the fact that the transition to a completely digital TV standard is stalled because of the vast number of people who still have analog sets and wouldn't know on demand if it bit them on the tuchas. The people with one-way cable cards represent another force. How many of them are satisfied enough now not to bother upgrading to on demand when the 2.0 cards arrive. A smaller percentage of people have software servers of their own that carry all of their films on hard drives available at the touch of a button; that percentage will grow. The tangibility factor can't be ignored either, especially for the DVD generations. I, for one, like having an actual palpable product sitting on my shelf that represents a movie. Some of my films are obscure. Who knows whether any publicly available server will ever bother to carry them. Films on disk have at least some semblance of cover art and sometimes even special features that may not be available for download later. Nonetheless, films on disk may have to offer advantages that online systems can't or don't--possibly freedom from bandwidth limitation, more resolution formats, or closer attention to the kind of detail that videophiles crave. Toshiba's initial production run of HD DVD players wasn't large, but it sold out almost in minutes. True, the buyers weren't from mainstream America, but who knows how many sales these hi def players/disks will need to make a go of it. Let's see how Blu-Ray does. If either option gets sufficiently established to wait out the inevitable lag time, it may well become the replacement for DVD as we know it for the foreseeable future. The entrenched habits of a culture die hard, and they don't necessarily change because of a new wrinkle that purports to simplify matters. One person's sure thing doesn't always appeal to everyone else. I don't know what will happen, but nothing seems etched in stone at this point.

[The Tahitijack]

edtyct,that was a nicely written counterpoint to my opinion. Perhaps we will see the Blue Ray/HD DVD war as a recycle the Beta/VHS war and eventually retro back to "broadcasting" as the most widely accepted form of entertainment, where broadcasting is defined as channels that include a huge library of on demand collectors editions of films including short subjects, international films and those treasured classics you and I would enjoy watching on the spur of the moment. Time will tell. one thing is for certain if we knew the future we could not have fun speculating on what it has in store for us. Until then we'll just stay tuned and see what happens. Thanks again for your points well taken.