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  1. #1
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    HD DVD or Blue Ray : would improve audio ?

    Hi,

    I might have missed some posts. But I wonder if HD DVD and Blue Ray, saying about larger space on disc and, thus, offer very much better video. How about audio !

    Would audio potential be also greatly improved along with the video ? If so, in what aspects (clarity, soundstage, image, dynamics,.... or everything) ?

    Sukasem

  2. #2
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Good question...my understanding is that both Dolby and DTS are working on new digital surround sound codecs for these formats to go with the new Hi-Def video. I can't recall the names, or whether or not they're already completed, only that they're coming.
    I've also heard grumblings that the DVD-A and SACD audio formats could find their way onto these discs.
    I think it's safe to say audio will be significantly improved on movies.

    It stands to reason that these formats could be used for multi-channel (and stereo) audio music releases as well, but for some reason that market seems more resistant to changes than the home theater market.

    Either way, we should enjoy another upgrade across the board.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Good question...my understanding is that both Dolby and DTS are working on new digital surround sound codecs for these formats to go with the new Hi-Def video. I can't recall the names, or whether or not they're already completed, only that they're coming.
    I've also heard grumblings that the DVD-A and SACD audio formats could find their way onto these discs.
    I think it's safe to say audio will be significantly improved on movies.

    It stands to reason that these formats could be used for multi-channel (and stereo) audio music releases as well, but for some reason that market seems more resistant to changes than the home theater market.

    Either way, we should enjoy another upgrade across the board.
    Hi,

    Thanks. I have very limited knowledge in electronics. Further questions:
    For new audio formats, do we have to change our current audio processor/receiver ?
    Can new Denon DVD-A1XVA play HD DVD and Blue Ray ?

    Sukasem

  4. #4
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Kex and Sukasem,

    Both formats have given their official nods to Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD. Both of these audio formats will also permit their original versions to be accessed instead, allowing backward compatibility--DD via a conversion circuit and DTS by including the lower fidelity signal within the new stream. (Dolby also has something in the works called Dolby TrueHD, based on Meridian's DVD-A compression scheme, which is completely lossless and faithful to the source; it will also be involved, though I don't have specifics). Apparently, internet connectivity is also a part of the plan, allowing the soundtracks to be mixed with all sorts of supplemental information and data. To get the benefit of this HD audio via a simple digital cable will require a new audio processor/receiver. However, unlike the looming problem with access to hi def DVD's video, which will require a digital connection (HDMI or DVI), the audio side should be available via analog output to anyone who already has a pre/pro or receiver with SACD/DVD-A audio inputs.

    Ed

  5. #5
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    Hi Ed,

    Thanks. Can new Denon DVD-A1XVA play HD DVD and Blue Ray ? And can it decode Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD ?

    Sukasem

  6. #6
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Hi Sukasem,

    The DVD-A1XVA is the 5910 here. It can upconvert standard 480i DVDs to 1080p through its HDMI output (though for some reason not its DVI port), but it won't be able to play any of the upcoming actual hi def formats. It can't decode DD Plus, but it's an idle point, since it can't play any disks that would include it. It would be able to pass a DTS-HD stream, but, again, it can't play any disk that would include it. Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will require altogether new players; nothing currently on the market qualifies.

    Ed

  7. #7
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    http://dolby.com/promo/HD/ lots of info here...check it out. 100% lossless in the future! here's part of the link:


    Dolby® TrueHD is Dolby’s next-generation lossless technology developed for high-definition disc-based media. Dolby TrueHD delivers tantalizing sound that is bit-for-bit identical to the studio master, unlocking the true high-definition entertainment experience on next-generation discs. When coupled with high-definition video, Dolby TrueHD offers an unprecedented home theater experience that lets you enjoy sound as stunning as the high-definition picture.

    Features
    100 percent lossless coding technology.
    Up to 18 Mbps bit rate.
    Supports up to eight full-range channels of 24-bit/96 kHz audio.*
    Supported by High-Definition Media Interface (HDMI™), the new single-cable digital connection for audio and video.
    Supports extensive metadata including dialogue normalization and dynamic range control.
    *Dolby TrueHD can support more than eight audio channels. HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc standards currently limit their maximum number of audio channels to eight.

    Benefits
    Delivers enthralling studio-master-quality sound that unlocks the true high-definition entertainment experience on next-generation discs.
    Offers more discrete channels than ever before for impeccable surround sound.
    Compatible with the A/V receivers and home-theaters-in-a-box (HTIBs) of today and tomorrow.
    Dialogue normalization maintains the same volume level when you change to other Dolby Digital and Dolby TrueHD programming.
    Dynamic range control (Night mode) enables you to customize audio playback to reduce peak volume levels (no loud surprises) while experiencing all the details in the soundtrack, enabling late-night viewing of high-energy surround sound without disturbing others.
    Selected as the mandatory format for HD DVD and as an optional format for Blu-ray Disc.
    Where You’ll Find Dolby TrueHD
    HD disc player, A/V receiver, home-theater-in-a-box (HTIB), automobile, personal computer


    dont know about dts, yet.
    spl or die.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csukasem
    Hi,

    Thanks. I have very limited knowledge in electronics. Further questions:
    For new audio formats, do we have to change our current audio processor/receiver ?
    Can new Denon DVD-A1XVA play HD DVD and Blue Ray ?

    Sukasem
    There are no HD-DVD or Blu-ray players or discs on the market right now.

    With the new audio formats, also no processors have been released so far. DD+ and DTS-HD promise higher audio resolution, but none of that will matter until the players come out, the discs come out, and the receivers/processors capable of decoding the new audio formats come out.

    If you're in the market for a home theater system, you're best off building it around DVDs, because it will take a while for Blu-ray to take hold with consumers, if the format even survives in the first place.

  9. #9
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    Hi,

    Thank you so much everybody. I had to read your posts several times and still not sure whether I got them right. I am trying to understand as follows(+ more questions):

    1. So, there will be DD(Dolby Digital Plus), DTS-HD, and Dolby TrueHD (3 versions), right ?
    2. If so, in your opinion, which of the 3 would offer best sound ?
    3. The Dolby TrueHD will be compatible with our current sound processors/receivers(the others won't), right ?

    4. In Thailand, there will be a launch of DVD player with 1080i capability, I think, by Samsung within 3-4 moths at USD 200. What is this ? Is it HD DVD or Blue ray, or else ? I saw their demo. on 1080i which, my god, was the best picture I ever saw.

    5. I am using Marantz VP12S2 front projector. The supplier said that 1080i discs will be launched soon and my Marantz will be compatible with them.

    Is it true that the 1080i will be launched soon ?
    And is it true that my Marantz will be compatible with them ?

    I'm very, very, very confused. (Only Third World War can stop my suffering !!, kidding)

    Thanks again for your patience.

    Sukasem

  10. #10
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csukasem
    Hi,

    Thank you so much everybody. I had to read your posts several times and still not sure whether I got them right. I am trying to understand as follows(+ more questions):

    1. So, there will be DD(Dolby Digital Plus), DTS-HD, and Dolby TrueHD (3 versions), right ?
    All of the Dolby and DTS variants in the new formats will be backwards compatible with the existing versions. The Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs will not be required to feature the higher resolution versions of DD and DTS, but they will have more than enough space to accommodate higher resolution audio.

    Quote Originally Posted by csukasem
    2. If so, in your opinion, which of the 3 would offer best sound ?
    Very premature question. All of those high resolution formats only exist in specs right now. Nothing has been released or demonstrated to the public yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by csukasem
    3. The Dolby TrueHD will be compatible with our current sound processors/receivers(the others won't), right ?
    It will be backwards compatible, but current processors will not play it back in the higher resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by csukasem
    4. In Thailand, there will be a launch of DVD player with 1080i capability, I think, by Samsung within 3-4 moths at USD 200. What is this ? Is it HD DVD or Blue ray, or else ? I saw their demo. on 1080i which, my god, was the best picture I ever saw.
    It's nothing more than a 480p DVD image upsampled and rescaled to 1080i. Not the same as a true HD 720p or 1080i playback.

    Quote Originally Posted by csukasem
    5. I am using Marantz VP12S2 front projector. The supplier said that 1080i discs will be launched soon and my Marantz will be compatible with them.

    Is it true that the 1080i will be launched soon ?
    And is it true that my Marantz will be compatible with them ?
    Those 1080i discs are Blu-ray and HD-DVD, since that's the native resolution on both of those formats.

    Your Marantz will be fully compatible with the new players only if it has a HDMI or other secure digital video connection. The video output from both of the new disc formats will downsample the resolution to 480p (same as DVD) when played through the analog component video connections.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    .........
    Your Marantz will be fully compatible with the new players only if it has a HDMI or other secure digital video connection. ......
    Hi Woochifer,

    My Marantz has DVI input. Would it be compatible with future DVD player ?

    Thanks

    Sukasem
    Last edited by csukasem; 10-22-2005 at 03:37 AM.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Sukasem,

    Unless your future DVD player has a DVI output, you'll have to get an adapter cable with DVI on the input side (Marantz) and HDMI on the player's output. These cables are not esoteric; HDMI and DVI have much in common so far as video goes. My guess for the best sounding new digital audio format, at this point, would be Dolby TrueHD, since it will be faithful to the source on a bit by bit basis. Dolby can thank Meridian for the lossless compression scheme. But, as Wooch says, until we've heard them, it's a bit of a shot in the dark. Anyone with a processor/receiver with 5.1 analog inputs should be able to take the feed of these new digital formats from their DVD players without having to spring for a new processor/receiver equipped with a digital input for them. But, as we've been saying, a new DVD player is unavoidable.

    Ed

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by edtyct
    Sukasem,

    Unless your future DVD player has a DVI output, you'll have to get an adapter cable with DVI on the input side (Marantz) and HDMI on the player's output. These cables are not esoteric; HDMI and DVI have much in common so far as video goes. My guess for the best sounding new digital audio format, at this point, would be Dolby TrueHD, since it will be faithful to the source on a bit by bit basis. Dolby can thank Meridian for the lossless compression scheme. But, as Wooch says, until we've heard them, it's a bit of a shot in the dark. Anyone with a processor/receiver with 5.1 analog inputs should be able to take the feed of these new digital formats from their DVD players without having to spring for a new processor/receiver equipped with a digital input for them. But, as we've been saying, a new DVD player is unavoidable.

    Ed
    Hi Ed/Wooch,

    I am using DVI now; from Denon 5900 to Marantz S2. So to continue to use my current DVI cable I just put an HDMI to DVI adapter to my cable, right ?

    I am prepared for investing in new DVD player but I won't jump.

    I heard that Denon DVD-A1XVA can work up to 1080p.
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=574962

    But that isn't for HD DVD or Blue Ray discs, right ?

    Thanks a lot, Ed.

    Thanks a lot, Wooch.

    Sukasem

  14. #14
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Two options exist: (1) an HDMI adaptor that fits on one end of your current DVI cable (Key Digital has one for $50.00; RAM Cable offers one at half the price) or (2) a whole new cable with the proper ends already on it (cost varies from doubleto triple digits like any other digital video cable). As I said earlier, the 1080p capability on the Denon flagship DVD player extends only to upconverted 480i. It has nothing to do with the high def DVDs that have yet to reach the market. It simply allows any displays that can accept 1080p signals (precious few at the moment) to receive 480i signals already converted to their native resolutions rather than having to convert 480i to1080p themselves. Displays often achieve such format conversions more gracefully than displays do, and every fixed display, whether like yours at 1280x720 or the newest ones at 1920x1080, requires it to be done somewhere along the line. It is not high defintition, simply a compatibility issue.

    Ed

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    Hi Ed,

    I know that buying the whole new cable is the way to gain optimum picture. But how much would the picture quality drop using an HDMI adaptor on my current DVI ? I've just changed my DVI cable from a standard one to Tributaries which gives satisfactory results.

    Thanks so much.

    Sukasem

  16. #16
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Assuming good construction, no signal loss should occur. It's no different from connecting to an input on a display device, except that in this case, you are the mediating final output. If the adapter isn't snug on the cable end, you'll see interruptions on the picture--dropouts or flickering lines. Then you'd just reattach it more firmly. RGB connections need these readjustments from time to time.

  17. #17
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    Hi,

    Thanks. I used to have a bad experience with adaptor when I use it with analog audio cable which worsened the results. But in our case it is digital signal and that's why it would not hurt the results, right ?

    Sukasem

  18. #18
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Well, audio and video are two kettles of fish, and I don't know what kind of audio adaptor you were using (a splitter?). But a digital video signal should easily be robust enough to traverse an adaptor. It happens all of time in the video world.

  19. #19
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    Hi Ed,

    Yes, it was a splitter, I think, to make one output into two outputs. I was trying to bi-amp my center channel.

    We have had much on Audio for movies from HD DVD and Blu-ray. How about Audio for musics; audiophile CDs, SACDs, HDCDs. What's your idea; any improvement ?

    Sukasem
    Last edited by csukasem; 10-25-2005 at 04:40 PM.

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