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  1. #1
    Mid-Fi
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    with a good precessor, does a $1000 DVD player make much difference than a $100 one?

    I have been wondering this question for a long time. If I use a good processor or decoder/ DAC, is there any big difference between a $1000 DVD/CD player and a $100 one?

  2. #2
    I love beans Registered Member orgasmdonor's Avatar
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    I just bought a Denon dvd 1920 new for 350 shipped from crutchfield. Has dual burr brown dac's. Made a huge difference in my audio and vidoe quality compared to my 90 dollar pioneer I had as my "good" dvd player. You get the Denon and you wil not have any worries...it's an awesome machine. And has the capabilities of future growth.

  3. #3
    Just passing thru topspeed's Avatar
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    Absolutely, without a doubt, unequivocally...

    maybe.

    The transport will almost certainly be far sturdier and less prone to vibration in the more expensive player. There's also a good chance that everything leading up to the dac's will be of higher grade as well, and while I can't scientifically tell you why they make a difference, all I can say is that my personal experience is that they do. The video side will of course have much better scalers and vid processing on the more expensive player (at least I would hope it would!), as well as faster load times, better buffering, more storage, etc.
    "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn, then you have enough horsepower." Mark Donohue

  4. #4
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    what I mean is that I already I have good processor (like my Lexicon) which does a perfect work of decording and D/A convert. The DVD playerls job is only read the optical disc and transfer the 0,1 streams to the processor through digital output. I always think that even a $20 CD ROM drive of a desktop computer can read CDs and install softwares without a single bit error. And there must be some buffer in the processor before decording or DAC in order to cover the error retry while there is reading errors. And there should be same error correction mechanism in the cheap DVD players. So I don't quite understand where is the Big difference.

  5. #5
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    You guys understand me, right? I am wondering the advantage of the digital tech. is to store and transfer the information easy and acurate. It can kill the interfering and keep the original looks....

  6. #6
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Will there be a difference? Yes. Will there be a $900 difference? No.

    Having a lighter wallet is the main difference..other than that.....a $1000 player will have a better power supply. If you're bypassing all the internal DAC's there goes most of the cost right there.

    I've seen plenty of $1000 Denons that quit working just like $100 players. The difference there is it's certainly easier to replace a $100 player, and both players will just as obsolete in a couple of years. No difference there.

    In the end...get the player you can afford.

  7. #7
    Mid-Fi
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    Haha!

    N. Abstentia. How are you doing with your HT room?

  8. #8
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Old debate

    Quote Originally Posted by minye
    what I mean is that I already I have good processor (like my Lexicon) which does a perfect work of decording and D/A convert. The DVD playerls job is only read the optical disc and transfer the 0,1 streams to the processor through digital output. I always think that even a $20 CD ROM drive of a desktop computer can read CDs and install softwares without a single bit error. And there must be some buffer in the processor before decording or DAC in order to cover the error retry while there is reading errors. And there should be same error correction mechanism in the cheap DVD players. So I don't quite understand where is the Big difference.
    Apparently this is an old debate: how much difference does the transport make. (I assume we're talking purely music, not video). The only transport function is to pass error-free S/PDIF to the DAC. So what are the possibilities that the transport will screw up I'll admit I don't understand what's involved very well

    First the transport must read and pass on the bits as recorded: what are the possibilites here? As you say, the $20 computer CD ROM seems to do this fine so why do we need an expensive audio player. But note that the downstream computer software can have error correction routines that somehow correct the errors, perhaps by re-reading the source recording.

    Secondly I think the transport has to get the timing right, that is, not cause "jitter". I note that timing is somehow encoded in the S/PDIF signal output, but I don't understand how this works. Downstream DACs can correct timing errors introduced by the transport and/or digital connection, but again, I don't understand how this works.

    For my part I don't know whether a better transport might help, but my pure guess is that the most difficult work is done by the DAC.

  9. #9
    Mid-Fi
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    I believe there should be error correction routines in the CD\DVD players. Another example is the portable CD players. Nowadays, most new portable CD players have so called "electrical anti-shock" function. The player reads and save the bitstream in the playing buffer. If any moment, there is a shock or interuptiong of reading, it does a retry while it doesn't interupt the playing side, because it is sending/playing the data saved in the buffer at any moment.

    I think picking up the 0,1 data and passing it to output at 1X speed is not a difficult job since a $20 CD ROM can do it well at 40+X speed.

    So can I draw the conclusion below?

    1. Don't buy expensive DVD players because you always use Pre-pros or Receivers to decord and D/A convert to get 5.1 or 7.1 channels. So spend the money more on Pre-pro or receivers. ( I would like to try the $30 DVD player, like last Christmas in Futureship, which can play lots of computer file formats....)

    2. If you want to achieve HIFI stereo result,

    a. buy expensive CD player that builds in HiFi DAC which is good enough beat your Pre-pro, and use its analogue output and a 2 channel pre-amp and a power amp.

    b. or buy HiFi DAC and use it with cheap CD players

  10. #10
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minye
    Haha!

    N. Abstentia. How are you doing with your HT room?
    It's DONE! Other than blackout curtains for the door..but other than that it's done

  11. #11
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    Minwe Your Going to Have A Rude Awakening

    The sound of the $30 DVD player connected to the $1,000 receiver is going to be like a $1,000 suit worn with $30 shoes. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken you know.

  12. #12
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    minye

    are you not concerned about video quality on your dvd player.That is the big difference in dvd players between cheap and expensive.Audio differences would be subtle at best,depending on your associated gear.
    thanks
    bill

  13. #13
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    Yes, the video is the difference.

    I just can't figure out the audio differnce scientifically based on their working principle.

  14. #14
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    topspeed has it right.

    bill

  15. #15
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    No Your Totally wrong Huge Audio Difference There Is No Easter Bunny

    I think alot of you people believe in the Easter Bunny I'm spotting a lot of mass induced hysteria here of feeling the need to agree on things so as not to be ostracised. There will be a huge noticeable difference in audio between a $30 DVD & a $250 DVD player etc. Here's some proof there is no Santa Claus: If there was no difference between audio on cheap DVD players & more expensive ones, this would have been written about in plain print in some national magazines or media. I'm daring anyone to come up with something that was. It hasn't been written because this simply doesn't exist Just like there is no proof of intelligent life on other planets here. Wishful thinking does not make things true. You're not back in Kansas anymore.

  16. #16
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    ed

    read your last post,so i thought i would conduct an experiment.I have the Stargate collectors edition dvd,that has 2 discs with different versions of the film but both with 6.1dts.I put one in my Cambridge Audio 540d dvd player(about $500.00 cdn)and the other in my playstation2.The dvd player was connected by Ixos digital interconnect($90.00cdn)and the playstation by a nowname optical($30.00cdn)both to my Cambridge audio 540r reciever.I watched the opening credits/main theme on the playstation first,then the Cambridge.The resultsn audio the cambridge had a slighty better midrange,highs were extended somewhat and the bass was a little tighter. Bear in mind that was running through $5,000.00cdn of Jm Labs speakers and wires and i have a good ear.On an average system,the average person would probably not notice the difference.On video,thats another story,the Cambridge killed the playstation2 totally.
    Better dvd players are better,but for video or analog audio,not so much for digital audio.
    thanks
    bill

  17. #17
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Explain, Ed

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    I think alot of you people believe in the Easter Bunny I'm spotting a lot of mass induced hysteria here of feeling the need to agree on things so as not to be ostracised. There will be a huge noticeable difference in audio between a $30 DVD & a $250 DVD player etc. ...more.
    Let's be plain: in this context we are not (1) talking about video quality, nor (2) the unit's build in DAC -- an external, downstream DAC will be used.

    So maybe you're right: maybe, used only as transport, a more expensive unit is better. Please explain the principles involved. Allusions to Santa and the Easter Bunny don't cut it in this critical company

  18. #18
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    Thanks Bill for the experiment. That is the result I am expecting. I have a Pioneer Elite DV-34 DVD player (MSRP$1000) and I use Lexicon DC2 processor. I couldn't tell much difference in audio over my $100 Samsung DVD player. The picture really got greatly improved. And also the analog CD output.

    Normally when we setup the surround HT system, to watch movies, we always use digital output to the receiver to get 5.1/7.1 channels instead of only get 2 channels. So I am thinking, if we don't have a good, big TV, spend more money on the receiver/processor or other components before investing in DVD players.

  19. #19
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    Musicman Good Point

    You made a good point which I overlook in reading alot of these posts that Joe Schmoe off the street who isn't a fervant gung ho collector of CD's might not notice differences that serious collectors & muscians/producers et. all would notice, and I'm guilty of overlooking that. A perfect example is my brother in law who just owns a couple of CDs & has a really low end home theater system. I've tried to talk him into upgrading his stuff but he says it will all be lost on him anyway, as he really isn't that aware of audio differences & doesn't care & is such a casual listener this isn't important too him. So I'll basically ammend all my previous posts concerning digital type equipment & cables, saying that for the casual listener, yes there probably will not be a noticeable difference what their hearing if played on equpment 10X more expensive & better. Good point Musicman.

  20. #20
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Ed,

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    I think alot of you people believe in the Easter Bunny I'm spotting a lot of mass induced hysteria here of feeling the need to agree on things so as not to be ostracised. There will be a huge noticeable difference in audio between a $30 DVD & a $250 DVD player etc. Here's some proof there is no Santa Claus: If there was no difference between audio on cheap DVD players & more expensive ones, this would have been written about in plain print in some national magazines or media. I'm daring anyone to come up with something that was. It hasn't been written because this simply doesn't exist Just like there is no proof of intelligent life on other planets here. Wishful thinking does not make things true. You're not back in Kansas anymore.
    This comment baffles me...Ed, forget that there's no magazines revealing the DVD player myth (if there is one) - consider that there are no scientifically valid studies that prove that a difference in cables, or even higher-end amplifiers will contribute to improving sound quality, yet you seem to readily accept those concepts as fact.

    So you assume because a magazine or newspaper doesn't write that it's false, it means that it's true? That's a big leap of faith. In the case of optical cables, digital signals, amps etc, we have hundreds, if not thousands of test results vs the absence of print in media. What's more valid?

    One would think the companies that sell these products should be able to provide some evidence to support their claims that could stand up to reasonable scientific scrutiny.. The fact that they haven't been able to do so despite being asked for this evidence for decades now certainly isn't encouraging.

    Now, I have my own beliefs (owning several amplifiers of different pricepoints and a bunch of cables of various grades), but, I'll be the first to admit that the media not revealing a fact in print doesn't mean that fact is any less true or false. I hope that's not all you base your decisions on.

  21. #21
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    First off I was referring to the fact that I have never seen one magazine or newspaper article where someone has said the audio sound of a $40 DVD player will sound as good as a $1,000 DVD player attached to a good receiver with good speakers because all that is being produced is identical 0's and 1's, Nada.

    A few months back, I posted a pretty good article from an online magazine where the guy stated unequivically that when you are connecting a DVD player by optic cable to a receiver, you will be getting better & hearing better audio sound from the better DVD player as sound is more then 0's and 1's, its the cables and players and receivers interpreting those 0's & 1's.. If I have some time, I'll try to find it on here.

  22. #22
    His and Her Room! westcott's Avatar
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    The real answer is that spending more money will not insure you that you will get better video quality. I do believe the original question was about DVD performance.

    All you have to do is look at the Secrets of Home Theater Benchmark to see that an Oppo, Panasonic, or Samsung can keep pace with players costing hundreds or even thousands more.

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...h&articles=all

    Now audio performace may be a different thread.

    Here is a link I think someone was referrring too earlier. Also a good read.

    http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1104/

  23. #23
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    Fair Enough But I think the Writer Is An Idiot!

    Its fair enough to write & show the the article but I personally feel the writer of the article is an idiot who oversimplified too many things to have an incorrect premise. I posted a similar type article by someone of a different view a few months but have no idea hw to search for it on this forum & repost it. That articule took the opposite point of view basically stating that cables & a DVD player are going to affect the sound quality & interpretation of the 0's & 1's. Again my most obvious answer to the people who doubt this is the law of Supply & Demand in a Free Enterprise System. If sound quality was the same for a $50 DVD player and a $5,000 DVD player, there would simply be no market for the $5,000 player as the majority of people would buy the cheap one. Someone won't spend the extra money if quality of performance is no different, at least in regards to a large amount of the population.

  24. #24
    His and Her Room! westcott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    Its fair enough to write & show the the article but I personally feel the writer of the article is an idiot who oversimplified too many things to have an incorrect premise. I posted a similar type article by someone of a different view a few months but have no idea hw to search for it on this forum & repost it. That articule took the opposite point of view basically stating that cables & a DVD player are going to affect the sound quality & interpretation of the 0's & 1's. Again my most obvious answer to the people who doubt this is the law of Supply & Demand in a Free Enterprise System. If sound quality was the same for a $50 DVD player and a $5,000 DVD player, there would simply be no market for the $5,000 player as the majority of people would buy the cheap one. Someone won't spend the extra money if quality of performance is no different, at least in regards to a large amount of the population.
    Supply and Demand have nothing to do with good marketing.

    Just ask Bose or Monster Cable!

  25. #25
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    westcott

    I would take the enjoythemusic artical with a grain of salt,it is provided by a company that sells $5000.00 dac's so they have a vested interest.They also fail to take into account that anyone that bought a $30,000 cd player would certainly be using the onboard dac not an external one.
    thanks
    bill

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