exapnding my 5.1 setup - 6.1 or 7.1??

[ronning]

Right now I'm really happy with my 5.1 speaker setup. Four Infinity Delta 60 towers, a matcihng Infinity Delta center, and dual Infinity subs.

However.. if you read my previous post you know I'm looking for a new receiver and some offer 6.1 or even 7.1 surround sound setups. Here's what I'm wondering:

- DTS-ES and DD-EX which are real recorded DVD formats are only 6.1, right? Is there any actual 7.1 recorded material?

- Is 7.1 all that much better than 6.1? Is it worth the jump? Is it actually two distinct surround channels, or does it just expand the mono rear center??

- There's an (extremely rare) infinity Delta center channel on ebay right now which would be *perfect* for easily expanding my system to 6.1. Should I hold for a couple smaller towers to get 7.1??

Thanks!

-Olen

[uncooked]

alright your best bet is to buy a 7.1 amp, and then just use it as a 6.1 amp and shut the extra channel off.

to anwser your question no there is no discrete 7.1 encoded movies or music at this time. 6.1 is max. there is prologic IIx which is a matrix 7.1 program. like neo 6 cinema but expands on the 6.1 to make 7.1

7.1 ads 2 side channels, while 6.1 ads a rear centre.

depending on your amp budget i would say buy a 7.1 amp, "say a yamaha like the 1400" then in a few years if the 7.1 phase kicks in like 6.1 has in the last little bit you will be ready.

"i have 6.1" and i would say its good enough. if its going to cost hundreds more for more for the 7.1 amp, and extra speaker i wouldnt bother. but alot of the new amps are all 7 channel + so if youve got the extra bucks go for it.

[kexodusc]

I recently made the same upgrade from 5.1 when I got my RX-V1400.
At first I purchased another Studio Center Channel to match my Studio 40's and 20's.
This did immediately create a more obvious rear surround field.
Then I found another pair of Studio 20's v.2 on for $300 used, so I snarfed those up as fast as I could and sold the CC for $450, more than I paid for it.
Despite no true 7.1 formats available yet, I much prefer the 7.1 setup to 6.1. The surround field appears much wider and deeper with 2 rear channels, instead of a focused, center rear surround that sounded too artificial at times.
That being said, I'm still a firm believer that a properly placed 5.1 system is good enough. I wasn't disappointed in the "rear surround field" before the upgrade at all. I just noticed the added sound later.
Don't feel the need to drop tons of cash on 2 more speakers (or even 1) just because your receiver can drive 7 channels. I'd say the 6.1 is maybe 10% improvement over 5.1, and 7.1 a 5% improvement over 6.1. If that...it's not as big a deal as advertising, and salespeople will have you believe. Diminishing returns here. If I had to drop $800 bucks or so for 2 more speakers brand new, I'd never do it. $800 would buy a ton of my favorite DVD's which would give me far more enjoyment than a deeper surround effect.

I agree with uncooked, depending on your receiver budget, most receivers are switching to 7.1 now and you might as well get that. But if you don't plan on buying 2 more speakers and you find a 6.1 receiver for cheaper, there's no sense buying a 7.1 system.

One last thing, keep in mind how goofy your room will look with 6 or 7 speakers, and of course, the WAF (if applicable).
cheers!

[Geoffcin]

I've had a 7.1 system for a few months now, and it's been better at producing a "larger" theater image than 5.1 system. You get a feeling for more depth to the soundfield. Like there's more space behind you. Some EX recorded movies have made good use of the rear channels. I expect that in time engineers will get better and better at this.

[Woochifer]

Right now I'm really happy with my 5.1 speaker setup. Four Infinity Delta 60 towers, a matcihng Infinity Delta center, and dual Infinity subs.

First off, if you're happy with what you got, then why the urge to upgrade? If you want to upgrade the receiver, it should be to something substantially better rather than a parallel upgrade from what you currently use just to get the back surround output and a few extra features. 99.9% of DVDs on the market have NO DD EX or DTS ES back surround encoding, so it's a lot of obsessing for a rather limited number of titles.

Second, is your seating position right up against the backwall? If it is, and you can't pull the sofa forward by at least a few feet, then you're better off sticking with a 5.1 speaker setup, even if you get a new receiver.

- DTS-ES and DD-EX which are real recorded DVD formats are only 6.1, right? Is there any actual 7.1 recorded material?

DD EX is technically a 5.1 format with an encoded back surround channel that's decoded by the EX processor. DTS ES is the only 6.1 format currently available to consumers. No true 7.1 format is available to consumers.

- Is 7.1 all that much better than 6.1? Is it worth the jump? Is it actually two distinct surround channels, or does it just expand the mono rear center??

All that "7.1" really does is split the back surround output into two channels, but there are valid reasons for going with a 7.1 speaker setup for 6.1 encoded material because how we hear things from the back is different from sounds that come to our ears from the front.

- There's an (extremely rare) infinity Delta center channel on ebay right now which would be *perfect* for easily expanding my system to 6.1. Should I hold for a couple smaller towers to get 7.1??

If you use direct firing surround speakers, you should use two more speakers identical to those surrounds for the two back surround channels, or at least somethign that's timbre matched with the surounds. A center speaker exists ONLY because it typically sits on top of a TV. Ideally, you would have three identical speakers up front, but the TV in the middle typically prevents this, hence the horizontal center speaker. In the back, you have no TV, therefore no need for a horizontal center speaker.

[eqm]

I'm on my second 7.1 setup in 2 years...one of the considerations you might use is if your system is both an HT and a music system. ie. I use a bipolar side surround (which are still the most active on movies) which gives the less-directional, diffuse sound that works great for movies. I also use directional speakers for my surround backs and when I hook up my SACD/DVD-A, I bypass the bipolar side surrounds, which imo, sound too diffuse to sound great for music playback. hope this helps.

[ronning]

First of all, I'd like to say a big "thank you" to everyone who as contributed. This really helps and is getting me closer to my goal. I'm replying to this post because it should directl answer some good questions you all have for me:

First off, if you're happy with what you got, then why the urge to upgrade? If you want to upgrade the receiver, it should be to something substantially better rather than a parallel upgrade from what you currently use just to get the back surround output and a few extra features. 99.9% of DVDs on the market have NO DD EX or DTS ES back surround encoding, so it's a lot of obsessing for a rather limited number of titles.

Basically, I woulnd't even consider a change. However, for those of you who missed my previous post, my house was broken into a while ago and one of the items stolen was my 5.1 receiver. (Sony STR-DB830). After giving up on getting it back, I've decided that a replacement cost component would be better regardless, and figured I'd look into a 7.1 amp.

Second, is your seating position right up against the backwall? If it is, and you can't pull the sofa forward by at least a few feet, then you're better off sticking with a 5.1 speaker setup, even if you get a new receiver.

It's a big living room with plenty of space. Oh, and no "waf"

If you use direct firing surround speakers, you should use two more speakers identical to those surrounds for the two back surround channels, or at least somethign that's timbre matched with the surounds. A center speaker exists ONLY because it typically sits on top of a TV. Ideally, you would have three identical speakers up front, but the TV in the middle typically prevents this, hence the horizontal center speaker. In the back, you have no TV, therefore no need for a horizontal center speaker.

Well, the center's gone so now it's a moot point. I agree, it'd be better with matching towers.. they're just more expensive and harder to find...

Anybody know of Infinity Deltas available for sale??

So, given these facts, I've come up with the Sony STR-DE897 as a possible receiver. Any opinions on this receiver? I also considered the DA-1000ES but it seems a bit too pricey and not worth the extra money.

Any other suggestions based on the features of the 897?

Thanks,

Olen

[CyberStoic]

So, given these facts, I've come up with the Sony STR-DE897 as a possible receiver. Any opinions on this receiver? I also considered the DA-1000ES but it seems a bit too pricey and not worth the extra money.

Any other suggestions based on the features of the 897?

Hi Olen;

as an owner of the STR-DE895 (now 897) I think it is woefully underpowered. You will certainly get close to the 100 watts in 2 channel stereo, but when watching movies, there are times that it is clipping halfway up the dial. Particularly in movies with huge soundtracks like Star Wars: Phantom Menace or Lord of the Rings. I would be suprised if I am getting 20 watts/channel in 6.1 setup.

For the money you are talking here for the 897, you might consider an Onkyo 502, or Pioneer 914K . They are about the same price, but I think they are somewhat better than the sony. I would suggest taking a trip to the store and some listening And run those through their paces, in 5.1/6.1 to see what they can handle when under a bigger load.

Good luck!

[uncooked]

i would really look at yamaha if i were you.

htr-5740 - 6.1, 85 watt a channel "high current so its way more accurate then a sony's rating.

htr-5750 - 6.1 90 watts a channel

htr-5760 - 7.1 95 watts a channel, but the big thing here is this one has preouts for all 7 channels that may or may not come in handy to you.

by far you will get the best bang for your buck out of these.

http://yamaha.ca/av/receivers.asp

to the left of the screen there, click on them and check them out.

[ronning]

Hi Olen;

as an owner of the STR-DE895 (now 897) I think it is woefully underpowered. You will certainly get close to the 100 watts in 2 channel stereo, but when watching movies, there are times that it is clipping halfway up the dial.

Good luck!

That's strange.. and too bad. My Sony DB830 could crank it out to all 4 tower speakers plus center all the way to a deafening level with no noticable clipping. Then again, the DB series was supposed to be a step between the generic and the ES line. (too bad they discontinued it...)

The 895s has just been replaced by the 897s and I *believe* (need to check on this) they've switched over to a fully digital amplifier (hence the new assignable digital signals) and bumped from 6.1 to 7.1. This may be quite a benefit, but like you say the best bet is to try it out at the store.. I'd just like to see the look on everyone's faces when I crank it up to 12 o'clock.

I'll check into the other suggested receiver from all the posts, but I don't think those are going to have all the features i need/want.

One last question:

Do these receivers convert composite to s-video? (my DB didn't, and it was a bit of a pain)

Thanks!

-Olen

[uncooked]

the yammies do for sure, and most new receivers do. some even do the composite to component. thats impressive.

[ronning]

htr-5760 - 7.1 95 watts a channel, but the big thing here is this one has preouts for all 7 channels that may or may not come in handy to you.

http://yamaha.ca/av/receivers.asp

to the left of the screen there, click on them and check them out.

the 5760 seems really good, especially for just a few bucks more than the sony. too bad it doesn't have the nice polished silver look of the new 897.

[uncooked]

go here and hit larger view.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...&newdeptid=10#

i think that looks pretty dam good, and i can tell you right now the quality of the unit would kick the sony's ass. "speaker terminals, connections, faceplate" all that type of stuff.

by the way canadian price)

[ronning]

go here and hit larger view.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...&newdeptid=10#

i think that looks pretty dam good, and i can tell you right now the quality of the unit would kick the sony's ass. "speaker terminals, connections, faceplate" all that type of stuff.

by the way canadian price)

Nice! Yeah, after I sent my first reply I checked the website you gave for the Canadian Yamaha site. Nice silver finish!

However... I can't seem to find the silver version anywhere on U.S. sites... Is it a Canadian version only? Any tips on where I can find this for cheap? (Ebay has only the black one at the moment).

Also... what makes the RX line of Yamaha so much better and cause for such an increase in price over the HTR line?

Thanks,

Olen

[Woochifer]

Nice! Yeah, after I sent my first reply I checked the website you gave for the Canadian Yamaha site. Nice silver finish!

However... I can't seem to find the silver version anywhere on U.S. sites... Is it a Canadian version only? Any tips on where I can find this for cheap? (Ebay has only the black one at the moment).

Also... what makes the RX line of Yamaha so much better and cause for such an increase in price over the HTR line?

Thanks,

Olen

I don't think that Yamaha has offered up the silver and bronze colored versions of their receivers yet (I think only their flagship receivers can be purchased with this finish in the U.S.). I know that they're readily available overseas where black colored components never caught on like it did here (silver was the color of choice until the early-80s when most companies went to black finishes; it's only in recent years that silver faces started showing up again)

The list prices on the RX-V line are identical to the HTR line. The main difference is that the RX-V line is sold through specialty audio/video dealers, and the HTR line is sold through mass merchandisers (like Best Buy and Sears) and mail order companies. The 5790 has an entirely different fascia than the RX-V1400, but they are functionally identical underneath. Not sure what features, if any, Yamaha might have removed from the 5790. Typically, Yamaha will remove a feature or two from the HTR version to stay in their long-time dealers' good graces (stuff like removable power cord or preouts or a different remote). When they introduced the HTR lineup a few years ago, a lot of their dealers were not too happy, so Yamaha's basically trying to expand their market reach but still keep their specialy retailers happy.

[ronning]

I don't think that Yamaha has offered up the silver and bronze colored versions of their receivers yet (I think only their flagship receivers can be purchased with this finish in the U.S.). I know that they're readily available overseas where black colored components never caught on like it did here (silver was the color of choice until the early-80s when most companies went to black finishes; it's only in recent years that silver faces started showing up again)

The list prices on the RX-V line are identical to the HTR line. The main difference is that the RX-V line is sold through specialty audio/video dealers, and the HTR line is sold through mass merchandisers (like Best Buy and Sears) and mail order companies. The 5790 has an entirely different fascia than the RX-V1400, but they are functionally identical underneath. Not sure what features, if any, Yamaha might have removed from the 5790. Typically, Yamaha will remove a feature or two from the HTR version to stay in their long-time dealers' good graces (stuff like removable power cord or preouts or a different remote). When they introduced the HTR lineup a few years ago, a lot of their dealers were not too happy, so Yamaha's basically trying to expand their market reach but still keep their specialy retailers happy.

I found the HTR-5750 in silver at an online store for $280 (sweet deal). I'd really like to get the 5760, though, with YPAO, higher wattage, 7.1 decoding, and more input options. However, I can't find it ANYWHERE in silver. Bastards.....

Any suggestions? (other than the CA$699 / US$520 one posted above)?

[ronning]

Well...

I took a look at the Yamaha 5760 and the Sony STR-DE897 (plus a few other models) at my local Best Buy / Circuit City / Goodguys.

The 5760 is really nice, although kind of pricey. It is also only available in black (a minor aesthetic problem).

The 897 looks like it has everything I need, is gorgeous looking, with plenty of power (although not as much as the yammie). It's also about $100 less.

I feel like I might just go with the Sony, and use the rest of the money towards my DVD player purchase. If anyone knows of a deal for the Yamaha anywhere (especially a silver one), let me know. I'm close to Canada where I'm at and I might try searching there...

Thanks,

Olen

[uncooked]

well just go into any future shop and they should have one, maybe even a open box deal if your lucky. or even a demo or something.