Dish/cable audio issue

[Mr Peabody]

I have been using a Moxie DVR provided by the cable company, I was pretty happy with the sound of 5.1 on this box. HBO/Cinemax/Stars HD the sound was pretty close to DVD quality. I had Dishnetwork installed today and I am now using a 722 HD DVR. I am disappointed in the sound quality so far. I'm using the exact Toslink connection, I unplugged it from the Moxie about a week ago and plugged the same cable into the 722 today. It's impossible to A/B but I can tell from the little bit I've heard that the sound is thinner or not as full sounding, less dynamic and much less fill from the rear surrounds.

Any idea why? Does Dish use more compression or a different method of compression. The 722 is mpeg4, I'd assume the cable was too but not sure and that would seem to be an advantage the mpeg4. The 722's Toslink connection was a bit unusual, it was flush with the back panel and at first I didn't see any opening. What ever was inside gave away and allowed the connection but I wonder if that could be a problem. I'd think if the cable got damaged I'd receive no sound. But the connector could be inferior.

I'd give Dish a slight higher mark for PQ over my former cable service. My wife couldn't tell any difference but to me Dish seemed a tad sharper and more color. If this difference does exist it could just be better delivery or upsampling of SD.

The poor sound though is giving me buyers remorse but the alternative of dealing with the worse customer service ever from Charter and a slave to continuous price increase for no program increase is just as bad, so what does one do. I plan to do some investigating to see if anything can be done or it's just a sacrafice I have to live with for now.

[johnny p]

no idea why, but when I went from cable to Dist Network, I had (and still do I guess) serious issues with picture clarity.... it's night and day! I think their hardware on their end is lacking, and they're obviously cutting corners somewhere, but it's so much cheaper, I feel "stuck"

[markw]

no idea why, but when I went from cable to Dist Network, I had (and still do I guess) serious issues with picture clarity.... it's night and day! I think their hardware on their end is lacking, and they're obviously cutting corners somewhere, but it's so much cheaper, I feel "stuck"

I've been looking at my comcast cable bill and just last week received a tempting offer from Dish. After what you both said, I think I'll just bite the bullet for the time being. Comcast has more channels and, I must say, I can't complain about the overall quality. ...just the price.

[Mr Peabody]

JP, what receiver are you using and is your TV HD? What type of connection? The reason I ask is I do have a great picture it's just an issue with my sound quality.

Comcast must be pretty good if they have more stations than Dish. I doubt if any cable system can compare in HD content with Dish.

[markw]

Comcast must be pretty good if they have more stations than Dish. I doubt if any cable system can compare in HD content with Dish.

I get HD from channels 200 up to about 240 but not all content is recorded in HD. The newer stuff is but the sitcom reruns and other programs are still broadcast in 4.3, which was what they were initially recorded in. A few stations stretch the sides, but I'm not really a fan of that vuisual distortion

[Rich-n-Texas]

That would be... visual, Mark.

Do you know what my FIOS TV installer told me? He said Dish TV installers put an OTA antenna in your attic, and then charges you for your locals. Don't know how much I believe that, but whatever the case, I'll never go back to satellite TV... ever!

[johnny p]

JP, what receiver are you using and is your TV HD? What type of connection? The reason I ask is I do have a great picture it's just an issue with my sound quality.

.

I have a Sharp Aquos LCD, so it's HD, but I don't pay extra for the HD package/box, which I was considering.... I'm thinking they're giving me crappy picture quality to try to twist my arm into the HD package.... the thing is, Cable's HD offering is more extensive, and less pricey..... go figure! I connect my T.V. Directly to my box with Monster Cable RCAs, and I have a basic model Sony Receiver that's 7.1 etc.... and I have fiber optics, Components, and S-Video... I just don't know the best way to connect it all I guess.....

If by receiver you mean my Dish Network Box, it's whatever they gave me, and it doesn't appear to be branded by anything other than "Dish Network"

[Mr Peabody]

Dishnetwork sends local channels in the same way as every other channel. The only way you would need or want an extra antenna is to get off air, which as it is in my case, channels not picked up by Dish. Those channels aren't provided by cable either. For instance, off air I can get a PBS kids station which neither provide and I can only get with an off air antenna. I just put rabbit ears on the TV my kids watch, forget the antenna in the attic or outside.

You guys must have it good. If Charter, the cable company that services my area, put all their HD channels together they may have 20.
How you should hook up your Dishnet receiver will depend on whether the Aquos upconverts SD. How do you have the Dish receiver connected? If you haven't checked it that may be the problem. You'd be amazed at how much these jokers that install don't know about the gear. All the know is the install stuff and how to dial the company to get it set up. I tried asking the guy some technical questions, well really not even that technical, and he looked at me like I was from another planet. Unless they are in the hobby too they have no idea about aspect, resolution or surround sound. You want to go from the Dish receiver to your Sony with an optical digital cable and for video run component from Dish receiver to TV. I doubt if a SD receiver would have HDMI You should see what an upgrade to a HD DVR would be. The only thing is Dish charges $20.00 for all their HD channels. But you could go with a smaller SD package like 100 or 200 and then add the HD.

[pixelthis]

The deal about dish putting an antenna in the attic is total BS, their setops have an atsc tuner and that antenna is just for channels OTA that they dont provide.
In any even you should ALWAYS install a sat system yourself, if you cant then get someone you trust, never let the monkeys from the company do it.
I have stories...
Same with cable, the cable guy wouldnt let me touch my box, hooked it up to channel 3,
soon as he left I hooked it up properly, ran the proper cable, installed the right splitters, etc.
The cable company caught on, now you just pick up the stuff in the office.
And DISH was quite good mr p but they do a rediculous amount of compression.
High sound q isnt a priority and probably is the first thing to go.
Comcast puts music choice (30 or so channels of music) on one HD channel.
Sounds quite good tho

[johnny p]

I'm going to reconnect everything as soon as my new speakers arrive.... hopefully TODAY!!! But I've been saying that for 3 days now! I disconnected the old speakers I'm replacing, so I'm in withdraw right now..... I probably have EVERYTHING connected the "polish way" which is the mantra I live by!

Thanks for the help.

[pixelthis]

I have a Sharp Aquos LCD, so it's HD, but I don't pay extra for the HD package/box, which I was considering.... I'm thinking they're giving me crappy picture quality to try to twist my arm into the HD package.... the thing is, Cable's HD offering is more extensive, and less pricey..... go figure! I connect my T.V. Directly to my box with Monster Cable RCAs, and I have a basic model Sony Receiver that's 7.1 etc.... and I have fiber optics, Components, and S-Video... I just don't know the best way to connect it all I guess.....

If by receiver you mean my Dish Network Box, it's whatever they gave me, and it doesn't appear to be branded by anything other than "Dish Network"

I guess this is another example of "the polish way", buying a HD set and not getting the programming to watch on it.
For the first few years I had HDTV I had to have a 30 foot mast with a UHF antenna on top to get anything hd, the main use I got outta my set was that DVD looked so good on it.
And as long as your "upgrading" ditch the dish, get direct tv with 85 hd channels (soon to
be a 100 or so).
Would you buy a car and not put any gas in it? Is that "the polish way also"?

[johnny p]

I gotta put gas in my car???? that's what's wrong!!!!! The thing is... yeah, I like crystal clear images when watching DVDs (waiting on the Blu-Ray/HD dust to settle) and the Television was a gift, and I had to talk the wife into Dish Network (cheapest available) for the 100+ channels we get, I had to fight to convince her $35/mo was a good deal.... The reason we got rid of cable was because the promotion we got for $30/mo ended, and it went to $50/mo if she had her way, we'd have NO cable/dish. It's not so much the money, as we do quite well for ourselves, it's more about what she finds as "acceptable" ways to spend money...... she pretty much hates T.V.

To get new speakers, I just told her "look how nice these look" and "we'll listen to more music" SOLD!~!!!!!!!

I may be young, but I learn quickly.

[johnny p]

Thought I'd update my avatar to explain all future actions!!!!

[johnny p]

. You want to go from the Dish receiver to your Sony with an optical digital cable and for video run component from Dish receiver to TV. .

O.K. PLEASE help.... Setting it all up now, as I received my new speakers today.... here's the problem(s)

Dish Network Receiver doesn't have an Optical on it..... I went with Monster Cable RCAs from the Dish Receiver to my Sony AVR, THEN, I went from the Dish Receiver to the T.V. with S-Video, but I get no picture...... I only get a picture when I connect to the T.V. with the Coaxial cable that they origionally connected to my T.V. from the Dish Receiver..... is this the only way I can get a picture? There is also RCA in/out for Video (along with the Audio I'm using) But when I connect the RCA Video out, to any of the RCA Video In's on the back of the T.V., NOTHING..... it's Coaxial or nothing I guess. Do I benefit from running any video through my Sony AVR, or am I just stuck with what I have right now???

Sorry I'm such an idiot, I appreciate all the help I can get! I'm going to connect my speakers now and listen to some music to soothe my soul.

[johnny p]

Help? Please!

[Mr Peabody]

That is strange no optical digital out, are you sure? I have an old 501 from at 3 or 4 years ago and it has digital audio out. With using the analog you will not get any 5.1. If nothing else have Dish upgrade you. How old is this receiver?

You should see a picture from the S-video. You have to use your TV remote to select the input you are using. Do you have component on your Dish or TV?

[Mr Peabody]

Oh, the only advantage to taking video to your receiver is video switching from source to source. Like if you wanted to switch from watching TV to DVD, one button on your Sony remote would switch both video and audio. With this you run everything into the Sony and one video out to the TV.

[pixelthis]

All of my dish receivers had both coax and optical for audio.
The optical is a little black square, with a little door that gives way when you plug in a cable.
Now when I say "coax" I aint talking about your antenna cable, just a simple cable with rca plugs, like an audio cable.
You need a dish receiver with at least componet out, even if it isnt HD it will still improve the picture.
There should be a diagram of the back of your set, you need to study it as well as the instructions, which I dont think you've peeked at yet.
You can get aPDF of the instructions at Dishs' web site. Read em.
This aint no toaster oven, son

[johnny p]

I'm running Optical from my DVD and CD player, I'm running Component Video from my DVD player as well..... There is no Optical or Component outputs on the Dish Network receiver..... I switched from Cable, and got this box 'maybe' a month ago...... so it's not old! When I select the input on my t.v. that corresponds with the S-Video, it's blank..... I've tried all the inputs.... I'm really starting to think the S-Video output on the Dish Network Receiver is dead.... but not sure why that would be. It doesn't even give a "feedback" type signal.

CONFUSED!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have been using a Moxie DVR provided by the cable company, I was pretty happy with the sound of 5.1 on this box. HBO/Cinemax/Stars HD the sound was pretty close to DVD quality. I had Dishnetwork installed today and I am now using a 722 HD DVR. I am disappointed in the sound quality so far. I'm using the exact Toslink connection, I unplugged it from the Moxie about a week ago and plugged the same cable into the 722 today. It's impossible to A/B but I can tell from the little bit I've heard that the sound is thinner or not as full sounding, less dynamic and much less fill from the rear surrounds.

Any idea why? Does Dish use more compression or a different method of compression. The 722 is mpeg4, I'd assume the cable was too but not sure and that would seem to be an advantage the mpeg4. The 722's Toslink connection was a bit unusual, it was flush with the back panel and at first I didn't see any opening. What ever was inside gave away and allowed the connection but I wonder if that could be a problem. I'd think if the cable got damaged I'd receive no sound. But the connector could be inferior.


The poor sound though is giving me buyers remorse but the alternative of dealing with the worse customer service ever from Charter and a slave to continuous price increase for no program increase is just as bad, so what does one do. I plan to do some investigating to see if anything can be done or it's just a sacrafice I have to live with for now.

Mr P,
What this sounds like to me is overaggressive compression(both dynamic and bit reduction). This is exactly the same effect I hear when I am encoding from raw PCM to Dolby digital at 448kbps. As the bits are reduced, the audio becomes thin and tinny sounding, and the envelopement of the soundfield is reduced. I do not think it is the hardware, I think it is what is coming out of the Dishnetwork system.

[Mr Peabody]

I don't know where you got that Dish receiver from but you got hosed. I can't even believe there are any around without digital audio out. You should see if they will upgrade you. That's ridiculous to give a new customer such a basic receiver and especially if you have an LCD TV. The RF connection, screw on coax, is the least quality connection you can go with.

Pix, you may want to check again, I've had Dish a few years back and now again, to my knowledge they have never offered coaxial digital audio.

[Mr Peabody]

Sir T, that is exactly how it sounds. It's terrible, so stripped you can tell the sound is coming from the speaker, the sound stage don't even mess any more. What's worse is a 5.1 movie sounds like 3.1 at best. Why would they do this?

[johnny p]

I'm calling tomorrow. I can't look at it now, and troubleshoot..... I'm guessing they give you a box that intentionally degrades your signal..... to entice you into the HD package..... and you thought the cable company was bad!!!!

[Mr Peabody]

The problem I posted about was bugging me. I wanted to explore every avenue so I started playing around with the connections. First I unplugged the digital audio cable from the 722 and plugged it into my BR player. it was the same as it was with the 722. So I'm thinking bad cable. I wasn't getting anything from the surrounds. So I put the connections back the way they were BR sound alright and the surrounds play. For some reason I switched the connections at the preamp, I turned on the BR, wait a minute, this doesn't sound right. Things are more tinny and no surrounds. Now I think I must have a digital input that is some how defective. The 722 into the good input sounds better but trying to find something with rear effects and waiting is difficult and time consuming. I went through the test tones and all channels fired, I unplugged the processor hoping something would reset but no luck. Strange problem.... What would cause an input just to lose the rear channels and degraded sound? I need to see what other digital inputs I have. I believe the BD-P1200 has coaxial digital out but not sure. This could make me use the multi-channel analog and just put the 722 input where the BR is now. I will also check the warranty to see if any remains. And, if so, do I want to let my processor go for a month or so. I hate to send odd ball stuff like this in for repair. I'm afraid they won't understand what I'm telling them or miss the problem. It's almost as bad as having an intermitten problem.

So I will have to do some listening to the 722 via the good input to see if they are as bad as I first thought.