Denon Receivers 1905, 2105, 2805 Further questions

[hershon]

I went to Ken Crane's today to hear their Denon Receivers and my results were mixed as to be honest my tentative but unsure conclusions are based on too many variables that I don't have any confidence in myself to make a decision on as the conditions were not uniform, so I'm asking for any help out there. I should add, that the sound quality was not a night and day difference between my current JVC RX-DV31SL 500 watts DVD receiver, but it was an improvement. Before I go on, I went to the Denon Web site and am totally confused as they have 2 different listings for receivers- one under (Home Theater Systems) Home Theater Series A/V receivers and the other under (Home Audio) Dolby Digital, DTS & THX A/V Receivers. What is the difference? Do the home audio ones AVR-2105 for example also need a seperate AMP or something or are they built in?

Assuming the Amp's are built in, because of a combination of different speakers with each denon model, different DVD players and the salesman I think playing them under different settings instead of the same setting that I wanted, I actually preferred the sound of the 1905 which to me sounded richer to the 2105 and the 2105 to the 2805. I played the Beatles "Norwegian Wood" on each system. I also listened to a Yamaha set up that I wasn't wild about, again possibly because the salesman didn't have it on the right settings. The one thing the salesman concluded was that my preference was to a bright sound, which oddly enough a recording engineer said the same thing, when he heard my home set up. Given that, should I go with the 1905 over the 2105 over the 2805, or should I trust the salesman who said for the money the 2105 is a better deal that will give me better sound. I play my system though Orb speakers & subs. Any help appreciated if this doesn't sound too confusing to you.

[markw]

Let's face reality, shall we? Your speakers are the limiting factor in your quest for better sound.

[hershon]

You are hearby officially banned from any of my threads. I don't mind criticism but I'm 99% sure you never heard my speakers and therefore keep your mouth shut, thanks.

Let's face reality, shall we? Your speakers are the limiting factor in your quest for better sound.

[shokhead]

Go to Denon's website and go to home audio,then products,then DD,DTS,THX,A/V recievers,then on the first row where it says Denon a/v recievers, click the yellow star and download and open and wala,side be side spec's of the recievers. That will help alot i think. The recievers are everyhing in one so to speak. You do know that a 2105 lets say will sound different with each set of different speakers. And dont let the salesman use any dsp modes. I'll suggest this,a 2105 with some B&W 602's and a 1815 or 2815 Denon DVD player. Thats a nice mid setup,i think. Heck you dont live to far from me,come over and we'll go shopping or at least try outs.

[hershon]

I appreciate your offer and like to take you up on it. Dinner or lunch is on me. Please see my private message. Thanks

Go to Denon's website and go to home audio,then products,then DD,DTS,THX,A/V recievers,then on the first row where it says Denon a/v recievers, click the yellow star and download and open and wala,side be side spec's of the recievers. That will help alot i think. The recievers are everyhing in one so to speak. You do know that a 2105 lets say will sound different with each set of different speakers. And dont let the salesman use any dsp modes. I'll suggest this,a 2105 with some B&W 602's and a 1815 or 2815 Denon DVD player. Thats a nice mid setup,i think. Heck you dont live to far from me,come over and we'll go shopping or at least try outs.

[Lensman]

Good to see you've found a discerning listener to assist you. That will help a lot. In addition to lending you his ear, Shokhead also offers some excellent advice in suggesting those Denon players. I really hadn't looked at prices in a couple of months and was shocked to see how much they have dropped with the new line. Shokhead suggests splitting your receiver budget to add a Denon DVD player. Given the prices, I think this is better than my advice to use a cheap player with a better receiver.

The DVD players he suggests are equipped with better Burr-Brown DACs which you would use in place of the ones in the receiver. Better still, they are also equipped with Faroudja deinterlacers that do a superior job of scaling video to HDTVs. So in addition to better sound, you could also wind up with better picture quality from your DVDs. Both are five disk changers. You may also wish to consider the single disk DVD-1910 with a suggested list of just $269 depending on your needs.

[markw]

You are hearby officially banned from any of my threads. I don't mind criticism but I'm 99% sure you never heard my speakers and therefore keep your mouth shut, thanks.

From your obsessive posting about minuate from day one, it was obvious you were looking for "more". First, it was about how great your JVC/ORB combo was. Day in, day out, all you did was push your beloved JVC/ORB combo. If someone wanted a receiver or a DVD player, you tried to push your DVD/receiver as an alternative to any and all. If they wanted speakers, you pushed Orb. If they had a headache, well, you get the picture.

Now, recently you have been slooooooowly coming to the conclusion that you're missing something. That's a good sign and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is that you overlook the obvious and fight violently when this is pointed out. You tend try to overanalyze fairly inconsequential factors that, until you scratch that itch, won't result in a "real" solution to the problems that will only be cured when (and it's coming, believe me) you realize and admit to the limiting factor and deal with it. ...and browbeating the sales staff at that big box store for your own self aggradizment didn't exactly win points from one who had been there and having dealt with (and walked away from) customers like you.

Others have even hinted that what you hear in the stores won't sound what you hear at home due to the diffferences in the speakers. Mebbe it's time to wake up and smell the coffee? It's not a cut against either you or the speakers. I'm sure they are good speakers within their limits but methinks it's their limitations that you are sensing.

IOW, you're scratching everywhere except where it itches.

A little bit of reality is sometimes needed. Now, whether those that need it avail themselves of the opportunity is another matter.

[nick250]

You are getting good advise from markw. You would be well served to heed it. Speakers and room acoustics are the primary factors controlling what you hear. The receiver contributes almost nothing.

[shokhead]

All true but the reciever contributes almost nothing is a bit of a reach.

[hershon]

First off my Orbs are great and I actually am very happy with my JVC RX-DV31SL system, nothing has changed that. In fact, when I went to the various stores to hear more expensive systems such as the Denon 3805, they didn't sound much better than my system to begin with. Then why am I looking for another system? I admit I'm being totally affected by this board on this and my income tax refund. I keep hearing how I'm missing out on some musical Nirvana & people like Lensman and others, I give creedence to
their opinions. I personally don't see much room for sound quality improvement, but if there is some to be had, I'm welcome to it. The object now for me is to get the right system for me, without changing my speakers which I love, and being able to easily return this new system if I don't notice much of a difference. The problem is, most of the online places sell stuff for a few hundred less but their return policies aren't good & also Denon doesn't warrant the bulk of the ones offering the big savings.

As I said, I don't mind criticism, and feel free to criticise my JVC receiver or my Orb speaker system, but if you've never heard say the Orb Speakers, then don't do it so definatively, because you might not know what you're talking about.

From your obsessive posting about minuate from day one, it was obvious you were looking for "more". First, it was about how great your JVC/ORB combo was. Day in, day out, all you did was push your beloved JVC/ORB combo. If someone wanted a receiver or a DVD player, you tried to push your DVD/receiver as an alternative to any and all. If they wanted speakers, you pushed Orb. If they had a headache, well, you get the picture.

Now, recently you have been slooooooowly coming to the conclusion that you're missing something. That's a good sign and there's nothing wrong with that. Thge problem ist hatyou overlook the obvious and fight violently when this is pointed out. You tend try to overanalyze fairly inconsequential factors that, until you scratch that itch, won't result in a "real" solution to the problems that will only be cured when (and it's coming, believe me) you realize and admit to the limiting factor and deal with it. ...and putting the poor sales staff at that big box store for your own self aggradizment didn't exactly win points from one who had been there and having dealt with (and walked away from) customers like you.

Others have even hinted that what you hear in the stores won't sound what you hear at home due to the diffferences in the speakers. Mebbe it's time to wake up and smell the coffee? It's not a cut against either you or the speakers. I'm sure they are good speakers within their limits but methinks it's their limitations that you are sensing.

IOW, you're scratching everywhere except where it itches.

A little bit of reality is sometimes needed. Now, whether those that need it avail themselves of the opportunity is another matter.

[shokhead]

I dont like to rag on others equipment but in general,i've never been a fan of small speakers claiming to reproduce big sound like bose. To me,a small speaker like some bose and others would have trouble with mid range stuff and they had better have a hell of a sub. That said,i been surprised how {some} small speaker systems have sounded in a small room for music and not pushed. Pretty clean. Limited but clean.