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  1. #1
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    Denon 5900 + DVDO Scaler = ??

    Hi,

    I wonder if I should invest in including DVDO scaler in my system. I am using Denon 5900(SDI ready) with Marantz VP12S2.

    Any significant improvement in picture if I include DVDO scaler in my current system ? Also, is the DVDO scaler designed to handle future technologies; HD DVD and Blue Ray ?

    Sukasem

  2. #2
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Sukasem,

    This is a hard question. My reflex answer would be "no." I'd be more apt to install a scaler in my system if its main duty was to improve reception of standard definition signals from cable, satellite, and OTA, but probably not if I were using your projector. The Denon itself has pretty good scaling and deinterlacing capability for DVD film and video; your projector's Faroudja processing, which can handle both DVDs and SDTV, may be even better. You can compare them by playing various kinds of DVD through the Denon at 480i and letting the Marantz do the work, and then running them through the Denon in progressive mode to bypass the Denon's processing.

    That said, however, priorities vary with available money and subjective impressions. Although a head to head comparison of the DVD player's electronics and/or the Marantz's with a dedicated scaler's might reveal minor improvements, it might not justify the price to everyone. In this case, I seriously doubt that it would.

    Also, DVDO (as well as other companies) has a range of scalers and deinterlacers. The highest end can process to 1080p on monitors that can accept it (yours can't). The hi def formats like HD DVD and Blu-Ray, which will arrive as 1080i, will be amenable to 1080p scalers only on monitors capable of accepting 1080p signals, and such monitors are in short supply at this point. One thing that certain high end scalers offer, however, in processing 1080i signals is 3:2 pulldown or video deinterlacing, which usually escape 1080i even though it's interlaced. But it takes a particular type of big display, and maybe more, to see the benefits. I'd say, save your money at this point. You have everything that you need for now.

    Ed

  3. #3
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by edtyct
    Sukasem,

    This is a hard question. My reflex answer would be "no." I'd be more apt to install a scaler in my system if its main duty was to improve reception of standard definition signals from cable, satellite, and OTA, but probably not if I were using your projector. The Denon itself has pretty good scaling and deinterlacing capability for DVD film and video; your projector's Faroudja processing, which can handle both DVDs and SDTV, may be even better. You can compare them by playing various kinds of DVD through the Denon at 480i and letting the Marantz do the work, and then running them through the Denon in progressive mode to bypass the Denon's processing.

    That said, however, priorities vary with available money and subjective impressions. Although a head to head comparison of the DVD player's electronics and/or the Marantz's with a dedicated scaler's might reveal minor improvements, it might not justify the price to everyone. In this case, I seriously doubt that it would.

    Also, DVDO (as well as other companies) has a range of scalers and deinterlacers. The highest end can process to 1080p on monitors that can accept it (yours can't). The hi def formats like HD DVD and Blu-Ray, which will arrive as 1080i, will be amenable to 1080p scalers only on monitors capable of accepting 1080p signals, and such monitors are in short supply at this point. One thing that certain high end scalers offer, however, in processing 1080i signals is 3:2 pulldown or video deinterlacing, which usually escape 1080i even though it's interlaced. But it takes a particular type of big display, and maybe more, to see the benefits. I'd say, save your money at this point. You have everything that you need for now.

    Ed
    Hi Ed,

    Happy to hear from you. Thanks a lot. I am having some good offer from DVDO. I still would like to know more.

    My projector can handle 1080i, right ? And 1080i DVDs will be launched pretty soon. I heard that I will take a very long time for 1080p(Blue Ray) DVDs to hit market. My Denon 5900 has the option of 1080i too (it has 480p, 760p, and 1080i).

    So for 1080i DVDs, how about my system consisting of Denon 5900 + DVDO + Marantz VP12S2 ? Would DVDO now play some good role ?

    Sukasem

  4. #4
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Sukasem,

    Your projector takes a 1080i signal and scales it to 720p, and it does so very well. Some DVD players also are capable of scaling signals through their digital output before the reach the display, though the definitive resolution for current DVDs is 480 and no higher. Scaling cannot change an original resolution, only adapt it to the native pixel count of the display. In your case, you would scale DVDs to 720p, not 1080i, because 720p is your display's exact native resolution. The point of doing so would not be to change the actual resolution of DVDs but to relieve the display of scaling to its native resolution, which often pays visible rewards. But your Denon is not equipped to play future 1080i disks, only current 480 ones. You'll need a new player for whatever hi def DVD format you adopt. A DVDO scaler would make no more inherent sense then than it does now. It is still an unnecessary purchase, until or unless you have reason to believe that it outperforms your current equipment in the relevant respects that I mentioned earlier. As I said before, the deinterlacing and scaling of your current equipment is quite good, without any obvious need to insert a scaler into the mix.

    At the risk of confusing you, one nice benefit of having a high end scaler, however, is that it can serve as a switch for two or more digital inputs for a display that has only one such input. They also often offer gamma, greyscale, color, and input programming that your display might lack, or that you might not be able to access from the user controls. But this is getting far ahead of where you seem to be.

    Ed

  5. #5
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    Hi Ed,

    Thanks a lot. I think I can arrange to borrow DVDO scaler to physically test it and will report this to you shortly.

    By the way, I changed my DVI cable from a standard one to Tributaries and the results were satisfactory. The picture is brighter, better color, and detail is stunning. I had to recalibrate the picture. Actually, I intended to compare Tributaries with BetterCables but the latter was not available for comparison. So I just compared the old standard cable with Tributaries and I easily decided to purchase it.

    It's still in my mind whether Tributaries is better than BetterCables !! Anybody has an answer for this ???


    Sukasem

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    Hi Ed,

    I wonder if you would read this post.

    Just today I went to a most hi-end home theater shop and they showed Shakespeare In Love. The system consisted of Lexicon DVD player, DVDO scaler, FireHawk screen (with mask), and JVC D-ILA projector. I don’t believe that I judge that my system is better. Their system was set up badly. Lots of edges, very bad details, and the worst was black level which was a lot worse than my Marantz 12S2. Although their colors were quite rich but I think exaggerated, unrealistic. I also was annoyed by “visible textured surface” on the screen. So I am now feeling so pleased.

    I think that set up is very important. For my system, I don’t allow one cable to touch another. No cable touches floor/wall. I used electricity purifiers, plenty of tip-toes, ceramics,……. My system is giving stunning details.

    Up to this point, I might not need to upgrade anything for a while (until 1080i/1080p hits market). But I will be keeping myself updated. Let's keep chatting.

    Thanks Ed.

    Sukasem

  7. #7
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Sukasem,

    I agree that setup can make all the difference in the world, maybe even more so when the equipment approaches the state of the art, since the variables are increased significantly. A system like the one you mention would require hours of work to get right, and then possibly hours more of tweaking. But setup is only part of it. It must be preceded by complementary choices. The screen gain must be a good match with the room and the display devices. Shakespeare in Love is a well-mastered DVD, so the exaggerated edge enhancement that you saw didn't come from the telecine but from the JVC. The JVC is capable of good black level, realistic color, and smooth images, but the flaws that you describe seem much like the type that good setup, and possibly a deeper calibration, could remedy.

    Sometimes, all things being equal, a power line conditioner or isolation transformer can noticeably improve a picture, or at least guarantee that it won't suddenly suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous electrical fortune. And cables that don't touch, or only touch at 90 degree angles, can help in long, unbalanced situations, but the most important requirement with good components is to set them up and match them correctly.

    Your system is a very good one. The degree of difference between it and the one you mentioned, when both are running in good order, should not be huge, certainly not large enough to justify a wholesale turnover. Sometimes the pursuit of the best in the high end can lead to unnecessary changes, which plays right into the hands of advertisers and retailers. If enthusiasts have the money, and that's how they want to spend it, more power to them, but such changes are largely for their own sake, not for cost-benefit increases. Some people, whether wealthy or not, can't sit still for long with what they have before they feel compelled to chase after something new. The pursuit may be good clean fun, or an ill-advised waste of time, depending on the rationale, but if it has anything to do with performance, sometimes proper setup would be a better strategy.

    Ed

  8. #8
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    Ed,

    Thanks for your description. Unfortunately, I might be misunderstanding but I am seeing very little (or almost none) that members here sharing knowledge on AV setup.

    Sukasem

  9. #9
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Sukasem,

    Someone will undoubtedly correct me if I'm wrong, but this board is much stronger on the audio side than on video (after all, it is AudioReview). Audio setup is particularly strong, but video tends to lag behind a bit, though it has picked up during the past 6 mos. or so, if memory serves. If you want to go into heavy detail about video equipment, even the particular components that you own, you might take an excusion to the AVS forum, where analysis often runs wild.

    Ed

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