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  1. #1
    Forum Regular dwayne.aycock's Avatar
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    The death of Blueray

    Are any of you as frustrated as I am with firmware updates for blueray? I recently went to the store and purchased THE PACIFIC from HBO pictures on blueray. Here I am, sitting in my theater room with my beer and pizza (man cave time!!!) ready for some intense sound and action. I load the disk and......NOTHING! Frickin firmware update needed. I go through the pains of going online and burning the upgraded firmware disc. I load it into the machine and get this " disc can not be read"! I go through all the steps again and still the same result. I have the Sharp Aquos BD 1200. I called Sharp and they said pay $50.00 and send the player to them for the firmware upgrade. This will be required everytime a firmware update is needed. Needless to say... I am NOT going to do this e-bay here I come. Next I tried the movie on my Samsung BDP-1200. Same result. I took the player to the Geek Squad at Best Buy and they managed to update the firmware for $25.00. With this player, firmware can not be updated with a disc. It has to be tied to an ethernet cable and modum which I DO NOT have!! I have a mobil hot spot. Finally I tried this on my new Sony player and of course it worked. I enjoyed the movie, but from now on, I will hesitate when buying a blue ray because I never know if they will play. What happened to the days when you put a DVD in your player and just watched the movie? I know this is all about blocking out the movie pirates, but it is causing a big problem for legitimate users. The plan is to phase out the DVD and replace it with blueray. I am not feeling the love here. Will these frequent firmware updates with all the problems associated with them be the death of blueray?
    Your thoughts.
    Dwayne

  2. #2
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    horrible story...


    but i think blu-rays death is online streaming. I streamed a 1080p/ DD+ movie of Ironman 2 Sunday via VUDU and it was every bit as good as a blu-ray movie in my HT.

    I think Blu-ray will quickly become the laserdisc...a niche where repeat viewing is cost effective.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular dwayne.aycock's Avatar
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    Angry The end of Blue Ray

    Double Post - Merged and Removed by Moderator
    Last edited by poppachubby; 11-10-2010 at 09:23 AM.

  4. #4
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwayne.aycock
    Are any of you as frustrated as I am with firmware updates for blueray? I recently went to the store and purchased THE PACIFIC from HBO pictures on blueray. Here I am, sitting in my theater room with my beer and pizza (man cave time!!!) ready for some intense sound and action. I load the disk and......NOTHING! Frickin firmware update needed. I go through the pains of going online and burning the upgraded firmware disc. I load it into the machine and get this " disc can not be read"! I go through all the steps again and still the same result. I have the Sharp Aquos BD 1200. I called Sharp and they said pay $50.00 and send the player to them for the firmware upgrade. This will be required everytime a firmware update is needed. Needless to say... I am NOT going to do this e-bay here I come. Next I tried the movie on my Samsung BDP-1200. Same result. I took the player to the Geek Squad at Best Buy and they managed to update the firmware for $25.00. With this player, firmware can not be updated with a disc. It has to be tied to an ethernet cable and modum which I DO NOT have!! I have a mobil hot spot. Finally I tried this on my new Sony player and of course it worked. I enjoyed the movie, but from now on, I will hesitate when buying a blue ray because I never know if they will play. What happened to the days when you put a DVD in your player and just watched the movie? I know this is all about blocking out the movie pirates, but it is causing a big problem for legitimate users. The plan is to phase out the DVD and replace it with blueray. I am not feeling the love here. Will these frequent firmware updates with all the problems associated with them be the death of blueray?
    Your thoughts.
    Dwayne
    Dwayne,
    First, I could not find a Sharp player that has your model number. They are usually listed a BD-HPXX. As far as the Samsung, it is a really old player, but you did not need to take it to the Geek squad, you could have done the firmware upgrade yourself. The file is on their website, and all you needed to do was burn it to a CDR.

    With the new Bluray players, there are not many firmware updates, and doing upgrades is easy peasy. I have the PS3, and upgrades are transparent to me. Of the newer players, firmware updates are far and in between. Mostly all of the newer players have wireless connections for both applications and firmware updates. The Samsung BDP-1200 and 1000 where pretty crappy players in the first place. When these were released, Sony, Panasonic and Pioneer had much better players with a lot less problems.

    I would advise that you purchase a newer player to see how different the Bluray experience really is. It is nothing like it was when the Samsung BDP-1200 was released, it a far newer world.
    Sir Terrence

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  5. #5
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel_
    horrible story...


    but i think blu-rays death is online streaming. I streamed a 1080p/ DD+ movie of Ironman 2 Sunday via VUDU and it was every bit as good as a blu-ray movie in my HT.

    I think Blu-ray will quickly become the laserdisc...a niche where repeat viewing is cost effective.
    It will be a loooooooooong time before streaming will replace the disc. With the cable and telecoms slapping downloading limits(which effects streaming as well), this can put a real crimp in widespread streaming plans.
    Sir Terrence

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  6. #6
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    New BD players are connected to the internet anyway. Updates come right thru the intertubes wire. For a $129 to $159, just pick up a new BD player.

    Btw, The Pacific is awesome on BD.
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  7. #7
    Mutant from table 9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    It will be a loooooooooong time before streaming will replace the disc. With the cable and telecoms slapping downloading limits(which effects streaming as well), this can put a real crimp in widespread streaming plans.

    Point well taken. Check this out: http://www.slate.com/id/2273314/

    But I have been watching alot more movies through Netflix streaming. Even with a much more limited selection, I'm probably 6 to 1 streaming to disk.
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  8. #8
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    Point well taken. Check this out: http://www.slate.com/id/2273314/

    But I have been watching alot more movies through Netflix streaming. Even with a much more limited selection, I'm probably 6 to 1 streaming to disk.
    I am like you, every since Sony offered Netflix as a crossbar application(as opposed to inserting the disc), I have been watching movies like crazy when I have time. However, when you think about 2% of the Netflix subscribers taking 20% of the internet bandwidth, you can see the lights of the train coming at ya when more people begin to use Netflix. Are net speeds are not getting faster, they are getting more expensive. We are not South Korea, and we are just not ready for mass streaming anytime soon.
    Sir Terrence

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  9. #9
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    Yeah streaming is great. I've seen some really enjoyable movies that I would have missed otherwise. Plus if it doesn't grab you in the first ten minutes, just switch.

    But, my cable provider is charging 8.99 for single new release HD stream. That pricing model will fail.
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  10. #10
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    But, my cable provider is charging 8.99 for single new release HD stream. That pricing model will fail.
    While it is failing, and Netflix is succeeding, how long do you think it will be when your cable provider decides bandwidth packaging and limits is better for them than allowing Netflix's traffic to swamp their system? This is what is facing streaming going forward. Cable and the telecom's are going to get territorial and attempt to choke or limit Netflix streaming while trying to push customers towards their own offerings.
    Sir Terrence

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  11. #11
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    Dwayne, if you registered your 1200 Samsung will actually send you the update for free, a disc through the mail. Of course, the pizza will be mighty cold by then. I disagree with Sir T on the 1200, it was a great machine and much better than Sony or Panasonic at the time, especially the next gen models by Sony, Panasonic and almost every other brand. The 1200 has exceptional DVD upconverting as well as BD playback. PS3 excluded from prior comments. As you can tell by the build quality of the 1200 over what you have been buying it was a quality unit. It is older and suffers from some of the drawbacks of early gen players but that has nothing to do with it being a bad machine just BDA putting out a format before it was ready. I've got two 1200's still going strong. What made me replace it in my main system was wanting DTS decoding. In fact, now that I remember the 1200 actually won a shoot out over higher end more expensive brands like Denon in DVD upconverting and playback.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular budgetaudio76's Avatar
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    for the crappy and expensive net i have(clearwire) They have a limit of 1 gigabyte for any 24 hour period.

    Even streaming a few minutes of youtube can take up to 10 times longer than it should...BTW. Im paying for s1.5 meg downloads and 256 kilbits up(dont remember if its bytes or bits...
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  13. #13
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    I believe there's always going to be an fairly easy way to get these updates. For example, can you not download the update on to a pen drive using a public computer or friend's computer (If you dont have internet) and use that to update the player?
    Indeed, burning to a CD is a bit more of a hassle. To be fair though, in this day and age, anyone who owns a BD player will have the ability to update his/her BD player fairly easily and straightforwardly.

    I bought Sony's Playstation 3 which updates automatically (if it's connect via ethernet or wifi) and I haven't encountered any such problems. It's a great machine.

  14. #14
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    If you have streaming access, you should try VUDU. We watched another HD (720p) movie last night for $4.99, and it was a fantastic experience. My high speed internet really moves the data so that helps.

    The VUDU interface is easy and complete with all filters and plus, when you hit 'Rent' the movie starts in 1-2 secs without intros of any kind. They have all the latest releases (unlike Netflix - which I have a subscription). Very well done site/company.

  15. #15
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Anyone who thinks the Samsung BDP-1200 was a good player needs to take one trip over to Bluray.com and look at the archived threads on the player, and Samsung response to firmware upgrades. According to a dealer of Bluray players, the Samsung BDP-1000 and 1200 was returned to his stores at triple the rate of a Sony, Pioneer or Panasonic. Samsung was terribly slow in providing firmware updates, and their players were the most problematic amoung all players. The biggest joke amoung the insiders there was a running bet that the Samsung players would not be able to play the new releases for that week. I could go on and on, but I would not buy into the one sided biases of people who owned the player, and are in denial of the players obvious weakness. I remember them complaining about the player and firmware upgrades as well on this site.

    I'm about fed up with my BD-P1200

    Great player huh.......
    Sir Terrence

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  16. #16
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    Ah hear you and

    Ah feel you. I'm lucky that my Oppo BDP self upgrades rather well. I'll turn it on, it'll tell me it's flashing my firmware and not to turn off the thingy, next thing you know I'm in business. It's been fairly painless thus far. Not to say I might not run into a disk I can't read in the future but, so far so good. Hope you get it straightened out. I watched "The Pacific" in real time on HBO and while I liked it, I didn't love it like "Band of Brothers".

    Worf

  17. #17
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    This is what I hinted at some time back with regard to frequency of updates with Blu-ray players almost being like a computer. Monthly firmware/software updates. I'm just glad I decided to go with a player that had wifi connection instead of just wired.

  18. #18
    Forum Regular dwayne.aycock's Avatar
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    I know the process of updating the firmware. I have called Samsung and they FINALLY sent the upgrade disc. The problem is that the player will not read the disc. The only thing that has worked is using an ethernet cable. Since i only have a mobile hot spot, I have to find a friend that has a modem and upgrade from there. I purchased a new blur ray player back in September. Sony makes a pretty good player, I have just never been thrilled about Sony products. Time will tell is there is a problem upgrading to 3D.
    Dwayne

  19. #19
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Hello Dewayne,

    you may notice that I have merged your Blu Ray threads and removed one. Double posting is forbidden at the Audio Review forums.

    Great topic however...

  20. #20
    Forum Regular dwayne.aycock's Avatar
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    Sorry about the double post. I guess I leaped before I looked.
    Dwayne

  21. #21
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by dwayne.aycock
    Are any of you as frustrated as I am with firmware updates for blueray? I recently went to the store and purchased THE PACIFIC from HBO pictures on blueray. Here I am, sitting in my theater room with my beer and pizza (man cave time!!!) ready for some intense sound and action. I load the disk and......NOTHING! Frickin firmware update needed. I go through the pains of going online and burning the upgraded firmware disc. I load it into the machine and get this " disc can not be read"! I go through all the steps again and still the same result. I have the Sharp Aquos BD 1200. I called Sharp and they said pay $50.00 and send the player to them for the firmware upgrade. This will be required everytime a firmware update is needed. Needless to say... I am NOT going to do this e-bay here I come. Next I tried the movie on my Samsung BDP-1200. Same result. I took the player to the Geek Squad at Best Buy and they managed to update the firmware for $25.00. With this player, firmware can not be updated with a disc. It has to be tied to an ethernet cable and modum which I DO NOT have!! I have a mobil hot spot. Finally I tried this on my new Sony player and of course it worked. I enjoyed the movie, but from now on, I will hesitate when buying a blue ray because I never know if they will play. What happened to the days when you put a DVD in your player and just watched the movie? I know this is all about blocking out the movie pirates, but it is causing a big problem for legitimate users. The plan is to phase out the DVD and replace it with blueray. I am not feeling the love here. Will these frequent firmware updates with all the problems associated with them be the death of blueray?
    Your thoughts.
    Dwayne
    Dont give up on the Sharp yet.
    Your firmware disc will work, but you have to burn thr right type.
    What you need to burn is an "image" to either a CD rom or DVD rom(which type
    depends on your player).
    Once you burn an image to disc it should work.
    I have a Sharp, love love love it, it loads fast, but it needed a firmware upgrade a
    week after I bought it. No worries, it has net access, took about a minute.
    But on my last blu player, a Sony, I got stuck like you did, reading the instructions
    helped.
    THERE are going to be frequent firmware upgrades until the form factor sorts itself out.
    This also happened with DVD at first, but when was the last time you needed to upgrade a DVD player. EVENTUALLY THIS WON'T BE A PROBLEM ANYMORE.
    As for the ":death" of BLU, that might be sooner than most think, the net might do to
    Blu what it did to the video rental store.
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  22. #22
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    As for the ":death" of BLU, that might be sooner than most think, the net might do to
    Blu what it did to the video rental store.
    Either you didn't bother to read the comments in post #7, or you just can't read period. There is no way any time soon that the net will dominate Bluray on any level at this point. Financially speaking, Bluray completely dominates streaming in revenue, it is almost no competition at this point. Secondly, Sandvine, a network management company sent out a report that documented Internet usage in North America. It found that between 8-10pm, Netflix accounted for 20% of the internet traffic, and the figure intertwined with data from Netflix showed that the 20% internet usage was coming from only 2% of the streaming subscribers registered. When that figure grows to 10-15% at the current bandwidth of the American system, the internet slows to a crawl, literally making Netflix unwatchable.

    The report also showed that the cable companies and telecom's are slowing the rollout of their high speed connections, so a majority of the country will not have the speeds to keep traffic moving as the public moves more towards a streaming model. The telecom's and cable companies have not upped the speed of their connections fast enough to make a mass adoption of streaming possible, and not enough of the country will have the necessary speeds(or coverage) to move the public towards a streaming model. The American public is not buying internet packages with the highest speed, they are buying packages with the slowest speed instead, which is why 2% of Netflix subscribers can take up 20% of the traffic on the internet between 8-10pm.

    Another fact - The cable companies are losing a lot of customers as of late, and at this point cable is the fastest potential speed you can get. At the same time Netflix is growing like gang busters, especially subscribers to streaming. Put on your thinking cap here for a moment(which probably would not help you anyway), if the cable company is not gaining customers, and Netflix is, how long do you think the cable companies(and telecoms for that matter)will allow all the Netflix traffic to flood their infrastructure without them wanting to control amount of downloading each customer does in a month? Already cable companies are slapping downloading limits on their customers, and that will eventually stunt Netflix's growth sooner rather than later. The only way an all streaming model with work is when bandwidth grows substantially yearly(ain't happening), consumer purchase the highest internet speeds(ain't happening) and can download as much data as they want, and the quality of the stream dramatically improves to the point where 1080p, 3D and lossless audio can be transmitted at substantially higher bitrates than we are currently seeing(that ain't happenin either!).

    Every time I read predictions of Bluray imminent death at the hands of streaming, I am reminded of all these facts, and how the person who makes these comments is so delusional, that reality completely escapes them.
    Sir Terrence

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  23. #23
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

    Every time I read predictions of Bluray imminent death at the hands of streaming, I am reminded of all these facts, and how the person who makes these comments is so delusional, that reality completely escapes them.
    Guess I should have been clear in my earlier post. When I say streaming death is coming for Blu-Ray, i mean the hard disc itself. The newer tvs now come with widget apps (for streaming) bypassing the blu-ray player altogether.

    My blu-ray player is used 90% for streaming, maybe even 95% over spinning a disc. And i'm an HT guy. Unless I see a blu disc as a repeat view, then i'm streaming the movie period.

    Just like mp3s and ipods killed CDs, i see streaming killing DVDs and Blu Ray discs.

  24. #24
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    [QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]Anyone who thinks the Samsung BDP-1200 was a good player needs to take one trip over to Bluray.com and look at the archived threads on the player, and Samsung response to firmware upgrades. According to a dealer of Bluray players, the Samsung BDP-1000 and 1200 was returned to his stores at triple the rate of a Sony, Pioneer or Panasonic. Samsung was terribly slow in providing firmware updates, and their players were the most problematic amoung all players. The biggest joke amoung the insiders there was a running bet that the Samsung players would not be able to play the new releases for that week. I could go on and on, but I would not buy into the one sided biases of people who owned the player, and are in denial of the players obvious weakness. I remember them complaining about the player and firmware upgrades as well on this site.

    I'm about fed up with my BD-P1200

    Only growing pains my man. I did forget about that particular movie though. Still don't take away the fact that I have two still in service and the excellent PQ. I have never had a problem with the 1200 reading a disc from the factory. I could never get one I made myself to work but I believe that's due to my error. I am a novice at burning and downloading with a computer. I later found out I wasn't unzipping the file properly. But as long as Samsung will send the disc I'm not worrying about it.

    The first time I watched a new release from something other than a disc was when Dishnet gave me some free PPV, and that was fairly recent.. If it was priced competitive I might do it more but if I liked the movie enough I'd still buy the disc. If I got BD quality with direct access to any movie I wanted to watch on a whim then I could get interested.

  25. #25
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel_
    Guess I should have been clear in my earlier post. When I say streaming death is coming for Blu-Ray, i mean the hard disc itself. The newer tvs now come with widget apps (for streaming) bypassing the blu-ray player altogether.

    My blu-ray player is used 90% for streaming, maybe even 95% over spinning a disc. And i'm an HT guy. Unless I see a blu disc as a repeat view, then i'm streaming the movie period.

    Just like mp3s and ipods killed CDs, i see streaming killing DVDs and Blu Ray discs.
    I believe everyone in the film industry knows that streaming is the wave of the future. However, until all of what I mentioned is addressed along with the fact that the streaming experience quality wise must catch up to the disc(i.e. lossless audio, 3D, 4K, and true 1080p without overcompressing), it will be years and years from now. The bandwidth is just not there, and won't be for the foreseeable future.

    I am digging streaming right now, but it is mostly non big budget movies, older movies, and comedies. I would never stream a movie like 2012, The Day the Earth Stood Still, or The Day After Tomorrow, because who wants to see it in heavily filtered and compressed 720p with stereo audio when you can get unfiltered 1080p with lossless audio?

    With the BDA blowing out the Bluray format like it has, Bluray has a pretty long life ahead of it. I predict it will be around as long as DVD has.

    Now where we agree is that streaming will definitely spell curtains for DVD, especially when Netflix begin offering DD+ on more of their titles.
    Sir Terrence

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    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

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