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  1. #1
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    Dazed & confused. Help!

    I posted for the first time yesterday. I'm in the hunt for new speakers(or at least I thought I was) to replace my overly bright Klipsch RF3s. I went to a local electronics store yesterday and listened to a pair of Vienna Acoustics Bachs. They sounded pretty nice. Great! I thought I was on the right track. Well....until today. I went to a high end store today. After telling the sales person about my overly bright RF3s, he asked what receiver I was using. When I told him a Denon AVR 2807 he said and I quote "keep the speakers and get rid of the Denon". He proceeded to tell me that he had the same receiver in his closet. He also said that I would not be happy with any speakers that I hook up to the Denon. He recommended a Rotel RMB 1075 or 1095 Amp with an Integra processor. What do you guys think? Is this guy right?
    Should I start by getting rid of the Denon? I'm confused.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Ask that high end dealer if you can borrow one of their demo units (they'll probably ask for a deposit, which is normal). Try it out at home and see if it makes a difference. If you still have the Denon, you can setup an A/B comparison.

    In my experience, the speakers make a far greater difference than the receiver does, and the Klipsch RF3 is a very forgiving speaker in terms of the sensitivity and impedance (it won't strain an amp like some other high end speakers might). Other speakers might indeed strain the Denon, but I doubt it will make or break the RF3s. The RF3 is not one of Klipsch's brighter sounding speakers, but it's definitely more pronounced in the highs than the Bachs.
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  3. #3
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    To me it sounds like the guy at the shop is trying to get rid of some Rotel amps out of his stock or an Integra Processor and that makes sense since this is the new year and plenty of shops have last years models discounted trying to get rid of them for the new model. But I could be wrong and this particular model Denon might be a bright amp. I sold Denon along with Yamaha for our receiver line back when I worked ina higher end shop and I never found them to be bright except like most receivers with amplifier sections not up to what a good outboard amp can do a receiver will sound bright at the clipping level of the amplifier section. Now the RF3's are rated very sensitive so you would most likely have to be cranking them to get this kind of response but I have not sure what your volume or listening tastes are and how bass heavy your music is which is what takes the most current anyway. I would say it this guy lets you take something home so you can see for yourself if this is true go for it and see, But if not to me it sounds like someone trying to sell you one of their products and let me make a guess Denon is not one of their product lines that they push. I would use you better judgment on this and go the way you feel is better. If you don't like the brightness of your Klipsch speakers which are notorious for this then I would look in a different direction since I know several people me included that can not sit with a pair of Klipsch's for more than a few minutes at a time if they are cranked up due to fatigue. The only I have seen people improve this problem a bit is by using super warm gear like McIntosh so it will counter act the brightness of the speakers. But to me if you have to run super warm equipment like that because of super bright speakers then down the road you want to upgrade speakers to something more neutral sounding then you are back to changing gear as well to get more neutral as well.

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  4. #4
    Forum Regular BadAssJazz's Avatar
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    In fairness to the dealer, he's right that an Integra pre/pro coupled with a Rotel amp would likely outperform the Denon 2807. It's an old adage that many audio enthusiasts stick by: quality separates trump a receiver.

    Having said that, your assessment of the Klipsch are not inconsistent with other reviewers, and that is the real crux of the issue. (I, for one, am not a big fan of Klipsch, either.) All of the electronics in the world won't save you, if you're not committed to the speakers that you have.

    In fact, once you have the right speakers for your ear, you'll be able to swap out components from different manufacturers without worrying about whether or not your speakers are the questionable link in the chain. Start there: find the right speakers.

    See if you can find a dealer who will let you audition. In some cases it's best to go to a reseller, since you'll be able to audition used or demo speakers which are beyond their break-in period. (Some speaker brands don't truly come alive until they reach that point.) Take your CDs/DVDs with you and make a day of it. You won't regret it. Even if you don't find the exact speakers that you like, you'll have a better appreciation of what you're looking for in a speaker.

    Finally, don't be discouraged by the opinions of others or the snobbery that accompanies this and many other hobbies. Your ear (and common sense) is all that matters. Sometimes that will even trump long-established adages.

    Take the one about separates trumping receivers. True in just about every empirical instance. But not always true when you think of practical considerations. Separates manufacturers are usually the last ones on board with new technologies at reasonable prices.

    I used to own a Rotel 1068 pre/pro and Rotel multichannel amp. Phenomenal combination. Swapped it out last year, after comparing it to my current receiver. I would have kept the Rotel, but the PE wasn't far off the pace performance-wise, and offered the newer features (HDMI) and digital codecs (e.g., Dolby TrueHD) that I wanted. When I purchased the PE there simply weren't enough affordable processors that offered the same features, although surveying the landscape now, that's obviously no longer true. Still, I would have had to wait for the prices to fall from the ionosphere before Onkyo, Marantz, Rotel, Emotiva, etc., etc., all began offering units with comparable features at the right price point for Joe Average Consumer (me). No thanks. Couldn't wait. No regrets.
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  5. #5
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    Thanks Woochifer. The problem is that the high end store>

    is 60 miles from me. What you wrote makes sense to me. What other speaker brands should I check out that sound similar to the Viennas?

  6. #6
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    Thanks Harley Guy. The salesman actually had one left in stock >

    and did tell me that it was a discontinued amp. He offered it to me for $699 and told me that it was well worth the money.But I think that I am going to go the speaker route first. Like I stated, I did like the sound of the Viennas. What brands would you suggest checking out?

  7. #7
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    Thanks Bad Ass Jazz.

    Any speaker brand suggestions that sound similar to the Viennas?

  8. #8
    Forum Regular BadAssJazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover187
    Any speaker brand suggestions that sound similar to the Viennas?
    The Viennas get high marks for the most part, but there are no shortage of excellent speakers in the marketplace. Again, your ear is the only thing that matters. Here are some of the brands that I've either auditioned myself, or listened to at length (if not critically) at one point or another and came away with the impression that I couldn't go far wrong by investing in their speakers (in no particular order):

    Silverline Audio (of course!)
    Sonus Faber
    Paradigm
    B&W
    Aerial
    Opera
    Von Schweikert
    Tyler Acoustics
    Usher Audio
    Dynaudio
    Spendor
    Audio Physic
    Salk
    Proac
    Totem
    Thiel
    Avalon
    Focal
    the original Swan Diva line of speakers
    Canton

    I'm sure I've missed a few brands here and there, but you get the gist. Audition, audtion, audition!
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    *SVS SB12

    http://www.panasonic.com
    http://www.marantz.com
    http://www.oppodigital.com
    http://www.silverlineaudio.com
    http://www.svsound.com

  9. #9
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
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    Audio Physic (of course) if you can find it.
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    Emotiva UMC-1
    Emotiva XPA-3
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  10. #10
    Forum Regular BadAssJazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eisforelectronic
    Audio Physic (of course) if you can find it.

    Agreed, and I did include them in the above list (post #8). If I ever change course from Silverline, Audio Physic (either the Avantis or the Scorpios) would be the next pair of speakers that I buy. Unless I win the lottery. Then all bets are off! (He madly screams, drooling over the pictures of the Tidal Amea Diacera monitors... http://www.tidal-audio.de/english/st...shprodukte.htm ). "My precious!!! Mine!!!!"


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    *Panasonic 60" Plasma HDTV
    *Marantz AV7005
    *Marantz MM7055
    *Oppo Digital BDP-95
    *Silverline Audio Sonatina MK II
    *Silverline Center Stage
    *Silverline Audio SR11
    *SVS SB12

    http://www.panasonic.com
    http://www.marantz.com
    http://www.oppodigital.com
    http://www.silverlineaudio.com
    http://www.svsound.com

  11. #11
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssJazz
    Agreed, and I did include them in the above list (post #8). If I ever change course from Silverline, Audio Physic (either the Avantis or the Scorpios) would be the next pair of speakers that I buy. Unless I win the lottery. Then all bets are off! (He madly screams, drooling over the pictures of the Tidal Amea Diacera monitors... http://www.tidal-audio.de/english/st...shprodukte.htm ). "My precious!!! Mine!!!!"


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    I know a guy with upgraded Avanti's, I think he did the HHCM midranges, not sure if he did the HHCT tweeters as well.

    The guy I got the Tempo 6 from uses Scorpio's for rears and replaced the 6's with tempo 25's for the side surrounds, So I basically got a pair of new speakers, since they were practically never playing.
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    Totem Acoustic Dreamcatchers

  12. #12
    Forum Regular BadAssJazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eisforelectronic
    I know a guy with upgraded Avanti's, I think he did the HHCM midranges, not sure if he did the HHCT tweeters as well.

    The guy I got the Tempo 6 from uses Scorpio's for rears and replaced the 6's with tempo 25's for the side surrounds, So I basically got a pair of new speakers, since they were practically never playing.
    Lucky man! That was a great deal for you. Hopefully he'll realize that using the Scorpio as rears is an overstated luxury and will part with them at a reasonable price, too.
    *Panasonic 60" Plasma HDTV
    *Marantz AV7005
    *Marantz MM7055
    *Oppo Digital BDP-95
    *Silverline Audio Sonatina MK II
    *Silverline Center Stage
    *Silverline Audio SR11
    *SVS SB12

    http://www.panasonic.com
    http://www.marantz.com
    http://www.oppodigital.com
    http://www.silverlineaudio.com
    http://www.svsound.com

  13. #13
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssJazz
    Lucky man! That was a great deal for you. Hopefully he'll realize that using the Scorpio as rears is an overstated luxury and will part with them at a reasonable price, too.
    I was just thinking that last week, because now there's going to be a Scorpio 25! I'm hoping he wants to upgrade!!
    Audio Physic Avanti IV w/upgraded mids and crossover
    Emotiva UMC-1
    Emotiva XPA-3
    Peachtree Audio iNova
    Rega Brio-R
    Rega RP-1
    Sony PS3
    BAT VK-D5se
    Totem Acoustic Dreamcatchers

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