Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 165
  1. #1
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,854

    Critique my layout

    I finally broke down and bought a new printer, so I printed, scanned and then saved this Excel drawing. I'd like everyone's opinion about things like the distance between the right and left, front and back speaker locations, where I would want to put acoustic panels, whether or not Bass traps would help, where the best location for the sub would be, and anything else you could offer in the way of constructive criticism.

    People have mentioned that my receiver is lacking, so I know an upgrade is looming.

    Mitsubishi 57732 DLP TV
    Yamaha RX-V3800 Receiver
    Emotiva LPA-1 amp
    PS3 w/Blu-ray
    Oppo DV-980 DVD player
    BFD DSP1124P
    Harmony 880 Remote
    B & W Matrix 804 mains
    B & W Matrix HTM center
    B & W 800ASW sub
    B & W P6 surrounds

  2. #2
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    halifax,nova scotia,canada
    Posts
    1,088
    Start over, first the television centered on the west wall, the front speakers about 9-10 feet apart, surround speakers on the east wall as far apart as possible.I would also bring the front speakers a little farther out into the room, this should put your left front about where your sub is only a little farther out.As for sub placement you need to try putting the sub in your seating position and move around the room,which i think was suggested before, try it it works.King's chair should go ddirectly opposite your center channel speaker which is centered under or above your screen.A rectangle is what you are looking for or as close as you can get.Oh and they are right about your reciever, you have very nice speakers and they need something to make them sing, that Yamaha sure will not.You might try an Arcam,Cambridge Audio, or a higher end Denon perhaps.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
    Disc player-Sim Audio Moon Calypso
    Pre-amp-Sim Audio P-5.3 SE
    dac= sim audio moon 300d

    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
    Display-Toshiba CRT
    Wires and Cables-Kimber,Straight Wire, ixos, Gutwire and shunyata research
    Sacd-Cambridge Audio
    Bluray--Sony and Cambridge Audio
    Remote-- Harmony 1100

    Power-- Monster

  3. #3
    Forum Regular codecougar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    126
    Everything's sort of nutty with your set up. I realize you are trying to deal with the area as best as possible, but that set up is far from ideal. I agree that a complete re-do is in order.

    You want to try and get everything spaced as equally as possible. For example, having one surround 5' behind your head and the other 12' over your right shoulder just isn't going to work as it should.

  4. #4
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    down there
    Posts
    7,124
    Hey Rich,

    Haven't seen you around these parts in a hot minute, so welcome back. I too have a challenging room and somettimes you have to think outside the envelope. I would suggest reversing the placement, by having the mains approximately where the surrounds are.

    1) If you reverse the positions you can place your mains equidistant from the seating position. I know you can manipulate the levels by lowering or raising individual channels but something always seemed janky about that.

    2) Another advantage of doing this is that you can bring the speakers out farther from the wall. Just a guess, but this might improve your imaging.

    I think when we discuss your receiver we need to be careful about what your goals are. The Yammie may not pack enough current to really get the B&W's singing to their utmost but it is certainly not lacking in processing power. If you don't plan on moving into the HD genre anytime soon, I would suggest looking at an external amp--maybe a multi-channel Rotel or something along those lines.

    If however you're looking at grabbing a BluRay or HDDVD player, you might wanna consider one of the powerhouse models by Pioneer or Onkyo with bigger amp sections and HDMI 1.3 passthrough. Denon surely will come out with a model with these abilities too.

    This should be a good conversation and I'm looking forward to hearing some of the suggestions by the old hands 'round these parts. Overall, good to have you back and let's hope we can get you where you want to go.

    Cheers

  5. #5
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,854
    Thanks guys. The only problem with your suggestion about putting the TV on the west wall is that there is a large window there, which is depicted by the double bars in the drawing. I could put the TV and stand, which measures 5' wide on the east wall, and the audio cabinet (which I neglected to include) in the bedroom closet that's on the other side of that wall. That's something I've been tossing around.

  6. #6
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,854
    Quote Originally Posted by codecougar
    Everything's sort of nutty with your set up
    That room is a reflection of my personality! Just ask GMichael!

  7. #7
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,854
    I appreciate your kind words Bobby, and yes I'm hoping for a good conversation to help bring some life to the board.

  8. #8
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    down there
    Posts
    7,124
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Thanks guys. The only problem with your suggestion about putting the TV on the west wall is that there is a large window there, which is depicted by the double bars in the drawing. I could put the TV and stand, which measures 5' wide on the east wall, and the audio cabinet (which I neglected to include) in the bedroom closet that's on the other side of that wall. That's something I've been tossing around.
    Nah, I'm sayin' base everything off the entertainment center being positioned on the north wall.

  9. #9
    Audiophile Wireworm5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Rupert's Land, Canada
    Posts
    496
    Since I'm unconventional, here's my unconventional advice.
    The north wall is fine, but I would move entertainment center more to the middle. I would place front speakers 6 to 8ft. apart.
    Move your listening position to center of room where the sofa is. Then I would place the surround speakers perpendicular to your listening position adjusting the time delay so that fronts, side and center arrive at ears at the same time. The sub, I like to have facing the front wall if front ported, placed at the back of the room, in your case south wall.
    As for your receiver, IMO it depends on what level of sound you're happy with. A good receiver will give you good sound. Power amps or adding external power amps will give, very good to elite sound depending on the quality of amp/s.

  10. #10
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,854
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Nah, I'm sayin' base everything off the entertainment center being positioned on the north wall.
    Understood. Musicman suggested the west wall...

    When I first purchased the house, the north wall was where I put my SD TV entertainment center. The problem there was with the setting sun shining through the window and directly on the TV screen. I realize though that room darkening, or even just dark, lined drapes would solve that problem.

    A definte advantage of setting up the audio and video cabinets on the north wall would be that I already have the rear channel wiring running down that wall, and from the attic perspective, snaking the coax and all down that wall is easily accessed.

    The biggest obstacle IMO is the fireplace, which I can't do anything about.

  11. #11
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    _
    Posts
    2,020
    Gotta ask Rich...is that Avatar your new ride?
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  12. #12
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,854
    No... my current ride, purchased new in 2000.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    halifax,nova scotia,canada
    Posts
    1,088
    Sorry i did not notice the glass, the extra light would complicate the video.The fire place does complicate things, whatever set up you settle on try to be linear, it makes things easier.
    Adding amps might help, but it has been my experience that improving the processor will make a much bigger difference than adding amps.Of course doing both is preferable but if one
    must come first, buy a processor and run it into the 5.1 inputs on your receiver and use it as an amp until you get a power amp to go with the processor.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
    Disc player-Sim Audio Moon Calypso
    Pre-amp-Sim Audio P-5.3 SE
    dac= sim audio moon 300d

    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
    Display-Toshiba CRT
    Wires and Cables-Kimber,Straight Wire, ixos, Gutwire and shunyata research
    Sacd-Cambridge Audio
    Bluray--Sony and Cambridge Audio
    Remote-- Harmony 1100

    Power-- Monster

  14. #14
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    tuscaloosa
    Posts
    5,628

    Cool

    This is probably the best you will be able to do.
    the main problem with rooms with fireplaces is that most people (especially the "spousal unit") want the seating area to be centered around the fireplace.
    The problem with a HT in such a room is that it competes for attention.
    Anything you try will turn out worse, because your current setup allows for enjoyment of the fireplace and the HT at the same time.
    About the only other place for it would be the "window" side.
    Dont see anything wrong with putting a HT in front of the window, gets rid of glare
    for sure, never had a problem with that.
    Since you've been in the south for awhile you need to learn some of our sayings, main one being, "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  15. #15
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Mortsel, Antwerp, Belgium, Europe, Earth
    Posts
    3,226
    sit in the middle. you don't want your lef speaker to be much closer to you than your right speaker. center the tv so it's right in front of you, and move your speakers closer to eachother, I know B&W's are always bragging about their very wide dispersion, but that doesn't mean your speakers have to be miles away from eachother... from where you sit, 3metres between the front speakers is more than enough.

    That would be the first things I'd do...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  16. #16
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Anywhere but here...
    Posts
    13,641
    Tough room dude. All I could think of has already been said.
    I know that your receiver has no pre-outs, so an external amp is out. Maybe a receiver upgrade with HDMI is the best place to start. The new Onkyo's are all the rage these days. Be sure to get one with pre-outs so that you can add an amp later when funds roll in.
    But let me ask you this. Does it sound like anything is missing to you? Got enough highs? Got enough base? Does it sound clear and crisp? Is it loud enough? What are your goals?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  17. #17
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,198

    Think: Blank Page....

    Rich,

    I am a fanatic when it comes to room arrangements and am constantly redoing, reworking, and revamping rooms, either in my house or other peoples if they want me to. I developed a knack for this sort of thing and I have a few methods that typically help. The first is to empty the room out completely. Start with a blank page. Once the room is empty then you begin bringing in the non-negotiables, the absolutes. These are things that you know have a dedicated place, perhaps for practical reasons. Think about all the possibilities for these items and envision what it would look like with these items in place. Once that is done then think about your HT needs, which will often dictate the rest of the room in many respects. This is where things might get interesting. First you must decide what is practical and at the same time ideal. Right now your setup is not ideal, but it's practical and works with the confines of the room, but if you are trying to move more into the 'ideal' setup then something has to change. I would be first concerned about getting the main speakers (L,R,C) lined up evenly in relationship with the TV. Then I would determine a listening position that works with the furniture and works with the flow of the room. Note: most people are concerned with sq. ft. when it comes to space, but this is only one factor, the main factor that determines the size of a room is what I call 'flex space' that is: room that does NOT have to involve traffic flow. For example a doorway needs walking space and that walking space must go to another area of the house, therefore that space breaks up the room, so you can't exactly put a couch in front of that space. So determine a walking space and where that will need to go, what are the absolutes in this case.

    After you have done this you should have a good setup, plan it out on paper, take measurements, think blank page. Don't be afraid to try a few new things, remember you can always change things back.

  18. #18
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,198
    After looking at it and taking a look at your pictures to get a good idea as well, the way I would set it up would be to have your TV/entertainment center on the opposite wall that it is now, it should fit and there is a doorway that would be to the left of it, but the flow of people should still be fine. Then I'd turn around the couch and chair from where they are and perhaps move them back just a tad, even though they will be directly in front of the opening for the next room, but the flow should still be fine. Swap the location of where you have your surrounds with your mains, although I think you are using the same in this case, so no need to change them, but I would re-distance them properly and evenly to your setup. You might be able to put the couch a bit closer towards the fireplace, although it won't be facing it, maybe that's an issue. I would also think that getting rear surrounds that are mountable on the wall would be more ideal for your room, since the floorstanders obstruct the traffic flow along the wall.

  19. #19
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,854
    With but one exception, there is plenty of constructive criticism here and some great suggestions. I appreciate it.

    GM, what I'm hoping for is #1, a major improvement in imaging when I'm watching a movie with DD or DTS audio or a DVD-A. As it stands, something resembling a surround experience is hit or miss at best. #2, much better frequency response across the entire range. We've talked previously about my situation with my sub and the lack of clear, thumping bass. At the other end, I want to be able to hear the drumstick hitting the cymbal before the I hear the cymbal's response. I have five tweeters atop five quality speakers so I don't see why I can't achieve that clearness as well as a crisp response. What I have right now is a lot of midrange coming mostly from the center channel, and while I understand that when watching movies or TV that's where the audio will be focused, again, there should be some sense of imaging in the room from where I'm sitting. That's not happening. Kex and others have told me that acoustic treatments are a must to catch early reflections, but at this point I don't feel it's a good idea to start putting up panels until I have the best speaker arrangement for the room.

    PS, no doubt that by taking everything out of the room I would have a clean slate without anything to distract me. It would also be a good time to replace the 12 year old carpeting, but then I probably won't be able to afford a new receiver which would suck. Seriously though, right now the room contains the bare minumum from a furnishings standpoint, so I'll follow your advice to clear the room completely and get a good picture in my head before doing anything else. It looks like the south (opposite) wall is the front runner at this point, which automatically means darker drapes, but it is the longest wall in the room so it would easily accomodate the TV stand, audio cabinet as well as the mains with minimal seperation.

    My concern wth an Onkyo relates to L.J's review and the popping noise during handshaking over the HDMI (IIRC). I haven't checked recently to see if there have been any updates to that; I was raised on Pioneer receivers so it looks like I've got some serious pondering to do. Is it a legitimate question to ask if the B&W's react better to a separates method over a do-it-all receiver?

    I've got the PVR recording House right now; I like that show because his attitude reminds me of RL's, so I want to go watch it before bedtime.

    Ober & out. Roger. who... huh...what?

  20. #20
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    halifax,nova scotia,canada
    Posts
    1,088
    First step should be to replace your receiver, i believe most of your problems start there.
    Separates would be better for sure but only you know your budget.When i added my Anthem processor it made the single biggest change in my system yet, opened my room right up and made my Focal speakers sing.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
    Disc player-Sim Audio Moon Calypso
    Pre-amp-Sim Audio P-5.3 SE
    dac= sim audio moon 300d

    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
    Display-Toshiba CRT
    Wires and Cables-Kimber,Straight Wire, ixos, Gutwire and shunyata research
    Sacd-Cambridge Audio
    Bluray--Sony and Cambridge Audio
    Remote-- Harmony 1100

    Power-- Monster

  21. #21
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    down there
    Posts
    7,124
    Hey Rich,

    As far as the optimum setup for your Beemers, they're gonna love something with some current which will almost invariably lead you to seperates. However you might want to check out the Onkyo 905. From all reports the thing is a beast with a pretty massive amp section. There are a couple of reviews on various forums from happy users (hey, here's one: http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...05-review.html ) and I believe that our own Sloshy from over at Rave Recs uses one as well.

    It is worth noting that the popping with the HDMI issue reported by L.J. and others was with the 805 and did not occur for many using external amps. There have been no such serious problems reported with the 905.

    My own suggestion would be to change the configuration of your room and listen and tweak for a week or so. You may find this corrects most if not all of your issues (I guarantee your imaging will get better). If you decide you still need more juice or processing power take a 905 for a test drive.

    Peace

  22. #22
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    tuscaloosa
    Posts
    5,628

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    With but one exception, there is plenty of constructive criticism here and some great suggestions. I appreciate it.

    GM, what I'm hoping for is #1, a major improvement in imaging when I'm watching a movie with DD or DTS audio or a DVD-A. As it stands, something resembling a surround experience is hit or miss at best. #2, much better frequency response across the entire range. We've talked previously about my situation with my sub and the lack of clear, thumping bass. At the other end, I want to be able to hear the drumstick hitting the cymbal before the I hear the cymbal's response. I have five tweeters atop five quality speakers so I don't see why I can't achieve that clearness as well as a crisp response. What I have right now is a lot of midrange coming mostly from the center channel, and while I understand that when watching movies or TV that's where the audio will be focused, again, there should be some sense of imaging in the room from where I'm sitting. That's not happening. Kex and others have told me that acoustic treatments are a must to catch early reflections, but at this point I don't feel it's a good idea to start putting up panels until I have the best speaker arrangement for the room.

    PS, no doubt that by taking everything out of the room I would have a clean slate without anything to distract me. It would also be a good time to replace the 12 year old carpeting, but then I probably won't be able to afford a new receiver which would suck. Seriously though, right now the room contains the bare minumum from a furnishings standpoint, so I'll follow your advice to clear the room completely and get a good picture in my head before doing anything else. It looks like the south (opposite) wall is the front runner at this point, which automatically means darker drapes, but it is the longest wall in the room so it would easily accomodate the TV stand, audio cabinet as well as the mains with minimal seperation.

    My concern wth an Onkyo relates to L.J's review and the popping noise during handshaking over the HDMI (IIRC). I haven't checked recently to see if there have been any updates to that; I was raised on Pioneer receivers so it looks like I've got some serious pondering to do. Is it a legitimate question to ask if the B&W's react better to a separates method over a do-it-all receiver?

    I've got the PVR recording House right now; I like that show because his attitude reminds me of RL's, so I want to go watch it before bedtime.

    Ober & out. Roger. who... huh...what?

    I have an Integra receiver that is based on onkyo receivers (and built by onkyo)
    A little bit more sophisicated than a comparable onkyo.
    my b&w speakers run well on it, and it gets pretty loud but has never distorted
    If you put your gear on the south wall it will compete with the fireplace.
    This never works, but you can try it.
    Or maybe you can put a flat screen over the fireplace and the speakers on either side...
    OOPS! (sorry)
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  23. #23
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,854
    I don't really use the fireplace anymore, and I don't have to deal with WAF at this time, so from a competion standpoint... not an issue. I'll check out the Onkyo, but can someone tell me how I interpret the specs so I'll know how the output current is indicated as it relates to the speakers?

  24. #24
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,854
    HEY!!! It's got TI parts in it!!!

    It's got... "high-performance parts from the likes of Texas Instruments."

    Whaddaya think of that Burt?!
    Last edited by Rich-n-Texas; 11-28-2007 at 05:42 AM.
    Mitsubishi 57732 DLP TV
    Yamaha RX-V3800 Receiver
    Emotiva LPA-1 amp
    PS3 w/Blu-ray
    Oppo DV-980 DVD player
    BFD DSP1124P
    Harmony 880 Remote
    B & W Matrix 804 mains
    B & W Matrix HTM center
    B & W 800ASW sub
    B & W P6 surrounds

  25. #25
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Mortsel, Antwerp, Belgium, Europe, Earth
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    HEY!!! It's got TI parts in it!!!

    duh
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Latest AudioReview Articles

Hot Deals

Latest News

AudioReview on Facebook