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  1. #1
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    The Bose saga...why?

    I have noticed that many members here bash BOSE, but other than saying they are too expensive, have no other reason. My surround system is a 6.1 with 601 IV fronts, 201 sides and 161 centers and a svs pci 2531 sub. Personally, i think that my system sounds awesome, and have compared many speakers. Why is it that most people here hate the direct and reflecting technology Bose uses so much compared to the typical only direct? Personally, i wouldnt buy any of there CUBE setups, but then again, i have room for larger speakers. For the size, I do think they are awesome though. Bose also has so many other technologys such as NOISE cancelling and the various audio adjusting features in car audio that uses a mic to balance things. I have had a Mercedes Benz, a corvette, and now an Avalance with BOSE and many other companies support them such as Acura, Maytag, the list goes on.. Just wondering if most people have a justified reason for straight out hating BOSE, or if it just the trendy, easy thing to say? Im not trying to start a war, It just seems that many people are closed minded with all the technology's Bose has to offer compared to most, if not all other speaker companies.
    spl or die.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Oh this should be good. I especially like the part about "all the technology Bose has developed"..that's a good one!

    Bose is a marketing company, not a speaker company. The technology they 'developed' is mainly decades old designs and ideas that they slightly tweaked so they could get a patent and say "better sound through research"...but they forgot to add "other peoples research" to the end of that.

    Here's a good read:
    http://www.perrymarshall.com/marketing/bose.htm

    And another:
    http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

    And I cringe every time I think about this frequency response curve for Bose speakers:
    http://www.geocities.com/p_iturra/Misc_HT_Speakers.html
    The bass module goes way up to around 300-400 hz. Bad.
    There are sharp peaks. Very bad.
    The respose curve nose dives at around 15khz. Atrocious.


    But like you say, at least you don't have the little cute cubes.

  3. #3
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    I am curious as to what speakers you compared to your Bose system. If you are ever in my area I invite you to come by and hear just why there is so much Bose bashing.
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  4. #4
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Bose does not make a bad speaker. It's usualy what gets most people started down the road to audio-bliss. But it's only the begining, not the end-all. Most people starting out with Bose are so happy about how much better they sound than their old system that they come to a board like this one and state, "Bose are the best ever!" To this the answer is a loud. "H.ll no they aren't!" They are OK. Welcome to the world of better sound. You aint heard nothing yet though. Hang in, enjoy your Bose (they aren't bad), but you'll hear better if you look in high end shops. Stay around and learn. There's so much better available. Take notes and start a wish list.
    The people on this board (and many others) have heard the "Bose are the best" statement from nubies so many times that they don't hold back and will rip into whoever makes this very false statement.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  5. #5
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Bose does not make a bad speaker. It's usualy what gets most people started down the road to audio-bliss. But it's only the begining, not the end-all. Most people starting out with Bose are so happy about how much better they sound than their old system that they come to a board like this one and state, "Bose are the best ever!" To this the answer is a loud. "H.ll no they aren't!" They are OK. Welcome to the world of better sound. You aint heard nothing yet though. Hang in, enjoy your Bose (they aren't bad), but you'll hear better if you look in high end shops. Stay around and learn. There's so much better available. Take notes and start a wish list.
    The people on this board (and many others) have heard the "Bose are the best" statement from nubies so many times that they don't hold back and will rip into whoever makes this very false statement.
    It's an end all when someone dumps their life savings on that crap.

  6. #6
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    GMichael...

    thanks for your post, i think you made alot of great points. Although i would never make an absolute statement like "bose is best", you are right about the fact that bose "It's usualy what gets most people started down the road to audio-bliss." My case scenario exactly. I started off with the 601 IV's are stereo speakers and got them for around $350 or so. I compared them to jbl, polk, klipse, sony, a few other and athena. I liked the athena's alot, but they were more expensive at the time. so i went with the 601's. Since i already had them and wanted to stick with the same brand in hopes of matching levels, i added the 201's and vcs10s. when i joined this site, i was in the market for a subwoofer and after alot of research, it seemed apparent that SVS was the best route. and i couldnt be happier. i auditioned polk, jbl, infinity, velodyne, ect for subs. i liked the velodynes alot, but they were too expensive, and i went out on a limb and went with all the reviews here with a svs pci2531. Thanks for all that help. I few more questions: THE questions that still remains from my original post is WHY Direct speakers are preferred over BOSE's direct and reflecting method??? Also, for the future...what companies might be considered "the SVS of regular speakers" ie best price for the best quality? thanks.
    spl or die.

  7. #7
    Utmostjamin1
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    another valid point to consider about Bose... consider the construction of the speaker itself...Bose uses very cheaply made materials in their speakers. the woofers usually have foam surrounds on them which will rot... they use paper cones in their tweeters. also they use cheap enlclosures and terminals to connect to.. My brotherinlaw has a pair of 301's that are about ten years old... just last week he was telling me how Bose is the best thing since sliced toast..to my brotherinlaw a speaker is nothing more than a appliance... it serves a purpose nothing more. he then cranked up some movie and alll of a sudden the bass just went kerfluey.. come to find out the surround on the woofers rotted out. Too many people i think look at the name and say well if its made by bose it must be good. they listen to them without listening to any other speakers.or they listen to the gee wiz surround sound demo at best buy and think wow they are awesome ill take em...45 minutes later the 16 yr old that waited on them has finished his cell phone conversation with his girlfriend, smoked a joint then gotten his horseplay with the other workers out of the way and the customer is now out $2500.00 and thinks he got the deal of a lifetime cause he bought bose. given a value rating vs price Bose just doesnt offer value.
    neither does the big box retailers... i swear i will never buy anthing electronic at best buy circuit city etc.

  8. #8
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxaudio
    i would never make an absolute statement like "bose is best", .
    Good, that's the part that usualy starts the flame wars around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by vxaudio
    you are right about the fact that bose "It's usualy what gets most people started down the road to audio-bliss." My case scenario exactly. I started off with the 601 IV's are stereo speakers and got them for around $350 or so. .
    Cool, welcome to the road to audio-bliss. Enjoy the trip. Don't forget to stop and listen to eveything you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by vxaudio
    I compared them to jbl, polk, klipse, sony, a few other and athena. I liked the athena's alot, but they were more expensive at the time. so i went with the 601's. Since i already had them and wanted to stick with the same brand in hopes of matching levels, i added the 201's and vcs10s. .
    They are a good start.

    Quote Originally Posted by vxaudio
    when i joined this site, i was in the market for a subwoofer and after alot of research, it seemed apparent that SVS was the best route. and i couldnt be happier. i auditioned polk, jbl, infinity, velodyne, ect for subs. i liked the velodynes alot, but they were too expensive, and i went out on a limb and went with all the reviews here with a svs pci2531. .
    I've heard good things about these. Haven't heard them myself yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by vxaudio
    Thanks for all that help. .
    Piece of cake. But you'll find many others here with more knowledge than I have about audio.

    Quote Originally Posted by vxaudio
    I few more questions: THE questions that still remains from my original post is WHY Direct speakers are preferred over BOSE's direct and reflecting method??? .
    I don't think that it's the reflecting method that people here don't like. It's that they charge so much for them. They are not worth the extra $$ that they charge. Also, the way that so many people do come hear and make that claim to fame that Bose is the best. The people here know better and it drives them crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by vxaudio
    Also, for the future...what companies might be considered "the SVS of regular speakers" ie best price for the best quality? thanks.
    Too many oppinions on that. Very few agree to who is the best. Also, SVS may be good, but there are better there also.
    Here's a good place to start. Good reading.
    Best Bang for the Buck Speakers?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  9. #9
    Audio/Video Nirvana robert393's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Oh this should be good. I especially like the part about "all the technology Bose has developed"..that's a good one!

    Bose is a marketing company, not a speaker company. The technology they 'developed' is mainly decades old designs and ideas that they slightly tweaked so they could get a patent and say "better sound through research"...but they forgot to add "other peoples research" to the end of that.

    Here's a good read:
    http://www.perrymarshall.com/marketing/bose.htm

    And another:
    http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

    And I cringe every time I think about this frequency response curve for Bose speakers:
    http://www.geocities.com/p_iturra/Misc_HT_Speakers.html
    The bass module goes way up to around 300-400 hz. Bad.
    There are sharp peaks. Very bad.
    The respose curve nose dives at around 15khz. Atrocious.


    But like you say, at least you don't have the little cute cubes.
    Proof once again of the old saying:
    "No High's, No Low's.......must be BOSE!

    Bose is a MARKETING company....thank you N. Abstentia I could not have explained it any better.

    But I do have a couple comments:
    I own a car-stereo shop, and I can tell you that the auto makers putting Bose in thier vehicles are doing it for a reason....PROFITABILITY. NOT FOR (QUALITY) SOUND. They sell you the car with a sizable mark-up for that "premium" system. So they make that $$. Guess what happens when one of your speakers (paper cone $1.75 cost) "blows". You gotta go BACK TO THE DEALER for the replacement, because NO REPUTABLE car stereo shop will get within 10 feet a Bose speaker (we won't sell a customer that junk!). So, the dealer makes MORE $$ from you!! Sweet deal for them everytime someone buys one of those "premium" systems. PT Barnum said it best " their's a sucker born ever minute"!

    I replace about 10 of those "premium" systems a week and put quality after-market systems in thier place.

    Bose certainly has a place in the audio market, but it's place is with the uninformed consumer, usually the consumer just starting out....before they know what good-sound really is.

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  10. #10
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Has anyone heard about when Amar Bose and Paul Klipsch saw each other walking down opposite sides of the street. Paul cupped his hands over his mouth faced Amar and hollered "Hi Amar, how are You?". Amar turned his back to Paul and hollered at the store front "Fine Paul, how are You?".

    There are as many opinions on speakers as there are grains of sand. The only consistancy is that, as ones ears become sensitized to higher quality sound the ability to tolerate the "sound of BOSE" is decreased. Go somewhere and give some real high end speakers a listen. You will hear what I and the other people on this site are striving for. If you can attend one, a Stereophile show is a good place to listen to the "good" stuff. As for myself, I will have nothing other than panels. I used to own Magnepans. Currently I own electrostatics. I want full range ribbons. I will humbly accept donations to the JoeE ribbon fund.
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  11. #11
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Has anyone heard about when Amar Bose and Paul Klipsch saw each other walking down opposite sides of the street. Paul cupped his hands over his mouth faced Amar and hollered "Hi Amar, how are You?". Amar turned his back to Paul and hollered at the store front "Fine Paul, how are You?".

    There are as many opinions on speakers as there are grains of sand. The only consistancy is that, as ones ears become sensitized to higher quality sound the ability to tolerate the "sound of BOSE" is decreased. Go somewhere and give some real high end speakers a listen. You will hear what I and the other people on this site are striving for. If you can attend one, a Stereophile show is a good place to listen to the "good" stuff. As for myself, I will have nothing other than panels. I used to own Magnepans. Currently I own electrostatics. I want full range ribbons. I will humbly accept donations to the JoeE ribbon fund.
    You can donate those old useless Magnepans over here.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  12. #12
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    RE: "The technology they 'developed' is mainly decades old designs and ideas that they slightly tweaked so they could get a patent and say "better sound through research"...but they forgot to add "other peoples research" to the end of that."

    Bose can be "bashed" for several reasons and I say this as an owner of Bose but can we hang up the tired old comments like the one quoted above. The US patent office issues patents not the company applying for them. The Bose bashers like to slam Bose for getting awarded patents that the bashers feel are in some manner undeserving or for Bose having the audacity to market the fact they have patented technology. Most technology is built on the backs of existing technology so Bose is not breaking new ground here.

    Back to the original post.....

    IMO
    Bose can be bashed for pushing their HT systems which are overpriced relative to even their own stand alone speakers. I think these Cube/HT systems are the main source of criticisms that Bose is overpriced The direct-reflecting technology is more challenging to set-up and I do not think it offers any particular advantage to the listening experience as Bose marketing claims.

    Having said all of that I do like my Bose set-up that cost me less than $550 which I understand is considered low budget for the average member here. When those 6 lucky lottery numbers finally hit I will explore other systems and see where my ear takes me.

    VX if you like your set up leave it at that. Keep an open mind about your sytem and those of others on this forum and don't let the flames get to you.
    Last edited by thekid; 10-23-2005 at 06:50 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #13
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxaudio
    THE questions that still remains from my original post is WHY Direct speakers are preferred over BOSE's direct and reflecting method???
    In the latest TAS, Kevin Voeks of Revel (ne Harman Intl.) noted that ABX testing has conclusively proven that one of the biggest detriments to perceived sound quality are first order reflections. Bose's direct-reflecting method tries to use room boundries to diffuse the sound and expand the image without considering different room nodes, acoustics, or interaction on the whole. Therefore, the vast majority of the time, the concept merely muddies the sound as it cancels/excites too many frequencies. You're left with a mish mash of sound instead of accuracy. Make sense?

    Also, for the future...what companies might be considered "the SVS of regular speakers" ie best price for the best quality?
    "The Best" is relative to your level of experience, purchasing ability, and sanity. Speakers are so subjective, it's not inconceivable for many normal people to consider Bose to be the best value. Of course, audiophiles are hardly normal . Many consider the $4K Von Schweikert VR4jr's as a screaming bargain if only because they get ridiculously close to the state of the art sound found in $40K+ speakers. Again it's all relative.

    Honestly, as long as you're happy with your rig, that's all that matters. I can appreciate that your ego wants assurances that you didn't make a mistake. We all feel the same way. That said, I say enjoy the music and remember, the only opinion that matters is yours.

    Hope this helps.

  14. #14
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    Well said Topspeed!!!

  15. #15
    AR Maniac
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    Bottom line is Bose are just what they are small speakers...
    Good for old people and snobs that dont want to spoil there decor...
    You want good by normal size speakers.
    I HATE BOSE

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  16. #16
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    fyi, bose makes "normal" sized speakers. What kind of person "HATES" a speaker company? Why are you being so closed minded?. I think that every speaker company has something good to offer; just some more than others.
    spl or die.

  17. #17
    AR Regular evil__betty's Avatar
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    I think what make many people dislike/hate BOSE is because of the kind of people the company breeds not nessicarily the product itself - because that doesn't sound that bad (compared to many cheapo HTiB, BOSE is a huge step in the right direction to better sound).

    Expample: I work in the audio video industry and deal with all sorts of people and products. The store that I work for does not carry BOSE (I'm quite glad - very little mark up for the salesman), but I do have to try to sell people out of BOSE and into something else. About three days ago, a couple come up to me after looking over the store for a while and ask where the closest BOSE dealer is. I tell them where they can find one, but ask what BOSE system they were looking for (in hopes that I would be able to sell them something I have at my store). They tell me that they are looking for the Lifestyle 48 (about $5000 CAN). I asked if they have listened to it or any other system and asked for their oppinion on them. They repleid that their brother-in-law has a $10,000 Paradigm system that does not come close to what the BOSE system can do.

    I agreed that the BOSE system is a step in the right direction if you are moving from tv speakers to a HT set up, but for the price, there are soooooo many other options for equal or better sound at a lower price. The look they gave me was as if I had personally insulted thier mother. I explanied that physics limit the ammount of sound a tiny speaker in a plastic cabinit can make and that a 6" driver in a wooden cab will produce better sound. They basically told me that my system at home was crap and that the only thing that they will ever buy is BOSE. They also said that their brother-in-law was going to sell his system and get the Lifestyle 48 system.

    This kind of arrogance and rude attitude leave me with a sour taste in my mouth for anything that has any ties to BOSE. Before I get flamed, I know that it is not BOSE that told me my system was crap, but their advertising has done a fabulous job brainwashing those that know nothing about sound. Those are the people that I have to deal with everyday. Please note, this is NOT a rare occurance to encounter people like this. Ask any audio salesman and they will back me up on this.

  18. #18
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evil__betty
    I think what make many people dislike/hate BOSE is because of the kind of people the company breeds not nessicarily the product itself - because that doesn't sound that bad (compared to many cheapo HTiB, BOSE is a huge step in the right direction to better sound).

    Expample: I work in the audio video industry and deal with all sorts of people and products. The store that I work for does not carry BOSE (I'm quite glad - very little mark up for the salesman), but I do have to try to sell people out of BOSE and into something else. About three days ago, a couple come up to me after looking over the store for a while and ask where the closest BOSE dealer is. I tell them where they can find one, but ask what BOSE system they were looking for (in hopes that I would be able to sell them something I have at my store). They tell me that they are looking for the Lifestyle 48 (about $5000 CAN). I asked if they have listened to it or any other system and asked for their oppinion on them. They repleid that their brother-in-law has a $10,000 Paradigm system that does not come close to what the BOSE system can do.

    I agreed that the BOSE system is a step in the right direction if you are moving from tv speakers to a HT set up, but for the price, there are soooooo many other options for equal or better sound at a lower price. The look they gave me was as if I had personally insulted thier mother. I explanied that physics limit the ammount of sound a tiny speaker in a plastic cabinit can make and that a 6" driver in a wooden cab will produce better sound. They basically told me that my system at home was crap and that the only thing that they will ever buy is BOSE. They also said that their brother-in-law was going to sell his system and get the Lifestyle 48 system.

    This kind of arrogance and rude attitude leave me with a sour taste in my mouth for anything that has any ties to BOSE. Before I get flamed, I know that it is not BOSE that told me my system was crap, but their advertising has done a fabulous job brainwashing those that know nothing about sound. Those are the people that I have to deal with everyday. Please note, this is NOT a rare occurance to encounter people like this. Ask any audio salesman and they will back me up on this.
    I feel your pain Evil. I was on the flip side of this. I went to CC to look over the HK receivers & Infinity speakers they sell. After telling the sales person that I had a budget of around $2k for everything and wanted to hear the HK, he told me that I was too old to hear the difference between models. That I should just get a Bose system. I listened for awhile as he told me how good Bose was. He took me into a room to listen. When I asked again to go into the other room with the other receivers (they don't keep these things together) he told me I was wasting my time with those.
    Nothing against Bose. I have no trouble with a company making money. They do that very well. And their product is OK, but I did not like that sales person very much.
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  19. #19
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Evil,
    I don't doubt you for one second. When I'm on vacation, sometimes I'll go into a Bose store for giggles. The vast majority of people that frequent these stores are posers. You know, the kind of people that are more into the label than anything else. It doesn't surprise me that they display this kind of arrogant, chip-on-the-shoulder attitude.

    The problem is you represent the reasoned voice of reality, and trust me, reality is the last thing these type of people want to deal with. Try changing your sales pitch and play to their insecurities and need for recognition. Support how great Bose is, and then level shift them by noting that the brand doesn't hold as much cache with those in the know. By installing a system consisting of [insert your brands here], they will not only have a superior system, but they will the respect of the elite.

    My dad once told me an absolute truism regarding how to spot the wealthy from the posers: Those that don't have it put the big bills on the outside (of a billfold), those that do put the big bills on the inside.



    Note to Bose owners:
    I am not calling you all posers. I am specifically talking about the type of people Evil Betty describes. If you're on this site, clearly you're not the mindless sheep I am talking about.

    You may now return to our regularly scheduled program .
    Last edited by topspeed; 10-28-2005 at 08:47 AM.

  20. #20
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    After reading so much on how the majority here feel about Bose maybe we should take a survey and find out how many Bose owners also own a Harley Davidson. Old technology,big and heavy,handle like a semi and appeal to the same crowd.

  21. #21
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockecat
    After reading so much on how the majority here feel about Bose maybe we should take a survey and find out how many Bose owners also own a Harley Davidson. Old technology,big and heavy,handle like a semi and appeal to the same crowd.
    Not the same. Harleys have never claimed to be as fast or handle better than rice. It's just a whole different feel. It's not something that can be put down on paper. They don't go as fast. They don't handle as well. They need more repairs. All this is known by anyone riding one. But we buy them anyhow. For reasons that statistics will never understand.
    Same crowd? How many prepies on Harleys these days?
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  22. #22
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    Not bashing HD I own one and around 20 others I also own a Bose product I really like my headphones. I just think it is so easy to bash a product and jump on a bandwagon.Bose must have something that appeals to a lot of people just like HD so my hat is off to them.

  23. #23
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    I don't mind Bose. I think they are much better than what the average person is used to. I also do like other bikes. I had a Ninja 900 years ago. It was FAST AS H.LL. But I spent to much time in the 100+ range. I needed something to slow me down. HD's are built like tanks, drive like tanks, and handle like tanks. Once in awhile I'll get on it hard for a few seconds and look down at the speedometter to see that I'm doing 70 or 80. When I did the same with the Kowi I'd look down to see 140 or 150. Too fast! People die this way.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  24. #24
    Forum Regular
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    What is really interesting is in many ways both companies through some great marketing
    really changed thier respective industries and made a resurgance that was felt throughout
    the market, other companies have copied both in order to gain marketshare.

  25. #25
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    OK, I'll have to agree with that. I just think that they appeal to two different crowds. Most of the HD riders that I know would rather have the biggest speakers possible. Just as long as they go loud, look intimidating, and have plenty of base. Oh, and can hold at least a 6 pack of beer on top.

    Wanna run the poll anyhow for sh.ts & giggles? I'll get it started.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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