The Bose saga...why?

[rockecat]

OK, I'll have to agree with that. I just think that they appeal to two different crowds. Most of the HD riders that I know would rather have the biggest speakers possible. Just as long as they go loud, look intimidating, and have plenty of base. Oh, and can hold at least a 6 pack of beer on top.

Wanna run the poll anyhow for sh.ts & giggles? I'll get it started.

It would be interesting, I noticed when I have my Bose headphones on I prefer Corona.
But when I crank up the old JBL's I have a thirst for Budweiser mmmm I just now realized
that , I may need a shrink

[GMichael]

Too funny. Check out the poll.

[mixadude]

HDs do hold their resale value much better... not sure about Bose

[rockecat]

Sweeeet, I think I know where this poll is headed.

[rockecat]

HDs do hold their resale value much better... not sure about Bose

Just like Hd, Bose resale is very good check out e-bay and you will see.

[GMichael]

Sweeeet, I think I know where this poll is headed.

Did you vote yet?

[rockecat]

I voted , no fair though any time I see the F^%^ I just have to click it just cant help myself!

[GMichael]

I couldn't leave that one out. It was calling my name.........

[rockecat]

I couldn't leave that one out. It was calling my name.........

I have a two for one coupon for the shrink, maybe we can find one that has a Bose wave radio playing elevator music while we discuss the intermost deep dark feelings of really wanting to buy the Bose but how are mothers told us that THD would ruin are hearing sure hope the serve Corona.

[jocko_nc]

Question: Is Bose the only 100% audio-only company that mass markets? I am exempting diversified electronics manufacturers, a la Sony. Strictly audio. I am trying to recall a single speaker, amp, etc. manufacturer that advertises on television and radio. I cannot come up with any. I recall Jensen and Kraco (sp) car system ads way back when. Wasn't Jensen the big name in car spreakers at the time? Bose ads, however, are everywhere. They have plastered the airwaves for a decade or more now. It makes sense they have brand recognition and loyalty amongst the unwashed masses. That is the only name they can cite.

Another question: Bose advertises heavily in the mass market, other (speaker) manufacturers do not. The other speaker manufacturers advertise in trade and afficionado circles, does Bose advertise there? I do not know, but suspect not. I suspect that most consumers who can name 10 or more loudspeaker manufacturers do not own Bose. I suspect that consumers who can name several driver manufacturers or describe the function of a crossover hardly ever own Bose. I suspect the more knowlegdeable the consumer, the less likely he owns Bose.

Just some thoughts...

FWIW, my parents have a Bose system. I think it is an abomination.

jocko

[GMichael]

Question: Is Bose the only 100% audio-only company that mass markets? I am exempting diversified electronics manufacturers, a la Sony. Strictly audio. I am trying to recall a single speaker, amp, etc. manufacturer that advertises on television and radio. I cannot come up with any. I recall Jensen and Kraco (sp) car system ads way back when. Wasn't Jensen the big name in car spreakers at the time? Bose ads, however, are everywhere. They have plastered the airwaves for a decade or more now. It makes sense they have brand recognition and loyalty amongst the unwashed masses. That is the only name they can cite.

Another question: Bose advertises heavily in the mass market, other (speaker) manufacturers do not. The other speaker manufacturers advertise in trade and afficionado circles, does Bose advertise there? I do not know, but suspect not. I suspect that most consumers who can name 10 or more loudspeaker manufacturers do not own Bose. I suspect that consumers who can name several driver manufacturers or describe the function of a crossover hardly ever own Bose. I suspect the more knowlegdeable the consumer, the less likely he owns Bose.

Just some thoughts...

FWIW, my parents have a Bose system. I think it is an abomination.

jocko

They still beat the heck out of the one 3 or 4 inch mono speaker that TV's used to have. Or even the stereo speakers newer sets have. Surround sound was a great idea. It just wasn't theirs. And many are better at it.

[rockecat]

You are exactly right, Bose has done a superb job of marketing thier product.
Let me give you example of how effective good marketing is. The best I have seen lately is Old Navy very new company that spends a ton on advertising and produces the product in China, this is a trend that started around ten years ago of selling and mass marketing a not so great product through huge advertising budgets. This has been around longer but in the last ten years it has become more the norm. You can sell just about anything if marketed correctly. I just sold my motorcycle dealership and retired I have seen many marketing changes in the last twenty odd years, you have to be able to adjust as the market changes if you do not you will fail.I also own a company that produces motorcycle suspension components and we are fighting hard for our share of the pie and advertising is the key.Our world has become much smaller via the net and products are scutinized on a much larger scale now. What this means is you will be seing a lot of shifting in the market there will be those who learn how to play the new game and those unwilling to change.
Even the mighty Wal-mart is will have to Keep a lookout for the changes.

[GMichael]

Congrats on the successful businesses.
Wal-Mart has a good website and is advertising a lot. So they are at least on the right track. Only time will tell if it pays off. And the market can change in the blink of an eye.

[rockecat]

Congrats on the successful businesses.
Wal-Mart has a good website and is advertising a lot. So they are at least on the right track. Only time will tell if it pays off. And the market can change in the blink of an eye.

Thanks, we just moved to a fairly small town closer to relatives yet far enough to have some breathing room. I am not quite old enough or wealthy enough to retire so going to find something to do. my wife and I grew up working for a large record distributor and we have always had a passion for music. The new house allowed us to drag out the old HI-FI
and we have not turned on the TV in two weeks she thinks I should open a small stereo store specializing in used equipment , I think she just wants me out of the house.
Here is the link to my website if you would like to check it out.
http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/

Yes that is me at the controls

[hermanv]

It has to do with deceit.

In a current Bose TV ad for their 3 speaker surround system, they show animated diagrams about 5.1 surround, complain about the problems running cables everywhere and then the annoucer says (paraphrased) "This Bose 3 speaker system is just awsome, when compared to ordinary TV sound it will blow you away" Right no deceit, except the whole commercial is about comparing 3 channels to 5 and then the catch line is about comparing 3 channels to the 2 wimpy speakers that come in your home TV set. It intentionally leaves the impression that the spokesman claimed that the Bose system was better than the 5 channel systems being described earlier in the ad..

We have a Bose "factory outlet" store near us. They have a demo, you are not allowed to leave before the end! They have these big Ol' speakers on the wall and during the music portion of the demo they lift the empty frame off to show you the little tiny Bose speakers cubes hidden inside. My wife wispers to me "Oh thank god, I wondered how they got those giant speakers to sound that awful , now I understand, they are actually 3" tinny speakers and sound exactly like they should." The deceit is that the bass is comming from the bass module that is not in plain view, they are trying to show how much bass a little tiny 3" cube can make disguised as a large speaker when in fact bass is coming from a hidden Bose subwoofer module. Later in the demo they drag this module out to play some games with a rubber ball plugging the port but never go back and link the big sound and the visual sleight of hand with the big housings holding the small speakers.

I've seen inside the "Wave" radio. There is a little 3" or 4" driver that has a 1" tuned port that's about 2 or 3 feet long. Nothing wrong except that will boost only one bass frequency so the response of the driver is a dual humped curve, one hump at proabbly 50 Hz then a big empty spot and then the actual driver resonance at 160Hz, phony bass, one note bass but at least a lot of it. In the TV ads they stretch this radio so it looks just like a big 3 way system (see through grills show 3 progressively larger drivers). The 3 way system has a chance of seamless coverage top to bottom, the Bose does not.

I own an expensive car with a Bose "high end" sound system, the main speakers are 3" diameter. There is no "wizzer" cone, there are no tweeters. There is a sub-woofer but again the main speakers can't go low enough to seamlessly integrate with the sub woofer (mono). It always sounded awful. Now one speaker voice coil rubs, Bose wants $350 for the driver assembly (the 3" paper cone driver mounted in a plastic box). The driver voice coil is 1 Ohm so they can get volume with only a 12V supply. There are no substitute drivers from other manufacturers. I wouldn't so much mind the $350 if the damn system sounded good but it doesn't.

Everytime I look at technical details of a Bose system I find they are manipulating or fooling our senses, other manufacturers do at least try for flat reponse (with admitedly different degrees of success). So you ask, if the effect succesfully fools you is it really deceit, yes, because for some music, some recordings the con will fail.

[thekid]

Evil,
I don't doubt you for one second. When I'm on vacation, sometimes I'll go into a Bose store for giggles. The vast majority of people that frequent these stores are posers. You know, the kind of people that are more into the label than anything else. It doesn't surprise me that they display this kind of arrogant, chip-on-the-shoulder attitude.

The problem is you represent the reasoned voice of reality, and trust me, reality is the last thing these type of people want to deal with. Try changing your sales pitch and play to their insecurities and need for recognition. Support how great Bose is, and then level shift them by noting that the brand doesn't hold as much cache with those in the know. By installing a system consisting of [insert your brands here], they will not only have a superior system, but they will the respect of the elite.

My dad once told me an absolute truism regarding how to spot the wealthy from the posers: Those that don't have it put the big bills on the outside (of a billfold), those that do put the big bills on the inside.



Note to Bose owners:
I am not calling you all posers. I am specifically talking about the type of people Evil Betty describes. If you're on this site, clearly you're not the mindless sheep I am talking about.

You may now return to our regularly scheduled program .

Thanks Topspeed for culling people like me from the herd....

It really is a little amusing to see the passion that a Bose thread brings to A/V forums.
If there are any anthropologists out there I think the Bose bashers are trying to make their case that Bose owners are a separate species! ( I can hear the matches being lit as I type this..) I have been on several of these forums and I am pretty convinced that most of the behavior attributed to Bose owners are really just trolls tossing gasoline.Based on some of the discussions on this forum a lot of attributes people assign only to Bose owners could be attributed to owners of other speakers who are trying to defend their audio choices. This is just human nature

But I bought my lottery tickets for the big money tonight and I'm sure I will be back on here tommorrow asking you all to recommend the best system a 100k can buy.....

Peace

[Woochifer]

Thanks Topspeed for culling people like me from the herd....

It really is a little amusing to see the passion that a Bose thread brings to A/V forums.
If there are any anthropologists out there I think the Bose bashers are trying to make their case that Bose owners are a separate species! ( I can hear the matches being lit as I type this..) I have been on several of these forums and I am pretty convinced that most of the behavior attributed to Bose owners are really just trolls tossing gasoline.Based on some of the discussions on this forum a lot of attributes people assign only to Bose owners could be attributed to owners of other speakers who are trying to defend their audio choices. This is just human nature

But I bought my lottery tickets for the big money tonight and I'm sure I will be back on here tommorrow asking you all to recommend the best system a 100k can buy.....

Peace

I'll tell you this much, people who buy Bose are definitely coming into the stores with preconceived ideas as to what Bose represents. A friend of mine worked at a store that for years did not carry Bose, and the sales reps had to spend most of their time explaining why a receiver-based system with an Energy Encore or Gallo Acoustics speaker package could sound so much better than a Bose Acoustimass-based system. And even if a customer admitted that the store's offerings seemed to sound better than the Bose system and cost less, a lot of them would still go on about how much more advanced they thought Bose's technology was and wind up buying Bose!

One store in my area resorted to buying their own Bose Acoustimass system so that they could demonstrate how much better the sound quality could be in that price range with alternatives from other companies.

The store where my friend worked eventually picked up the Bose line, and he said that it made for some quick and easy sales, and very high commissions (the highest margins outside of Monster Cable). He would ask a customer if they wanted to audition other products in the same price range, and a lot of them would just whip out their credit card and tell him they wanted to buy Bose no matter what. No time in the demo room comparing different speakers, no comparison shopping at different stores, hardly any time at all -- a salesman's job was never easier!

Bose has so inundated the media with advertising that they have a built in advantage with brand recognition. A lot of the grumblings about Bose will typically come from experienced listeners and hobbyists. That's not the market that Bose appeals to, and it shows with how they emphasize making their products easy to use, design friendly, and usable out of the box. Only after owning one of their products for a while do the deficiencies with limited upgrade paths, performance, and/or upgradability come out.

[ryk]

B.O.S.E.
"Better Off with Something Else"

[thekid]

I'll tell you this much, people who buy Bose are definitely coming into the stores with preconceived ideas as to what Bose represents. A friend of mine worked at a store that for years did not carry Bose, and the sales reps had to spend most of their time explaining why a receiver-based system with an Energy Encore or Gallo Acoustics speaker package could sound so much better than a Bose Acoustimass-based system. And even if a customer admitted that the store's offerings seemed to sound better than the Bose system and cost less, a lot of them would still go on about how much more advanced they thought Bose's technology was and wind up buying Bose!

One store in my area resorted to buying their own Bose Acoustimass system so that they could demonstrate how much better the sound quality could be in that price range with alternatives from other companies.

The store where my friend worked eventually picked up the Bose line, and he said that it made for some quick and easy sales, and very high commissions (the highest margins outside of Monster Cable). He would ask a customer if they wanted to audition other products in the same price range, and a lot of them would just whip out their credit card and tell him they wanted to buy Bose no matter what. No time in the demo room comparing different speakers, no comparison shopping at different stores, hardly any time at all -- a salesman's job was never easier!

Bose has so inundated the media with advertising that they have a built in advantage with brand recognition. A lot of the grumblings about Bose will typically come from experienced listeners and hobbyists. That's not the market that Bose appeals to, and it shows with how they emphasize making their products easy to use, design friendly, and usable out of the box. Only after owning one of their products for a while do the deficiencies with limited upgrade paths, performance, and/or upgradability come out.

Wooch-
I agree with your post. IMO I think that most of the responses to Bose threads (the obvious trolls aside) just go beyond the deserved criticisms of Bose.Most Bose threads usually deteriorate real fast into cute catch phrases like the one below your post, unsubstantiated "internet myths" about Bose itself or attacks on the intelligence/genetic make up of the person posing the question or Bose owners. I think that those types of responses are counterproductive and just benneath most of the members here whose true passion and knowledge of audio I have really come to appreciate.

For those Bose people you encounter in the world- educate those with an open mind and ignore those with a close mind. Close minded people have their own set of problems and we should not infer that Bose is the cause of the problem. As you said Bose has a talent for marketing their product which if we are honest about it is at a level that most companies (speaker or not) out in the marketplace is trying to achieve. You have to wonder if any one of the speaker makers that are highly regarded by members here was able to achieve the mass market appeal of Bose would we start seeing some of the same criticisms-JAT

By the way I checked my lottery numbers and won't be asking for any high-end equipment advice today.....

Peace

[rockecat]

You have to wonder if any one of the speaker makers that are highly regarded by members here was able to achieve the mass market appeal of Bose would we start seeing some of the same criticisms-JAT

Now that is a great observation, I would say there would be a good chance of it.
Does anybody remember when Wal-Mart really started getting big and how great we thought it was, and now we tell each other how we hate to go.Bose may not be the best product on the market, but it sure has made a positive impact on the market by
putting out a product much better than what is standard equipment on your TV and showing the average consumer a whole new perspective in audio performance, many of these consumers will eventually move on or up to even better equipment which serves all of us well.

[vxaudio]

Better off with something else?? Another simple minded comment. Why some "know it all" members here say things like that is beyond me. It really turns off alot of people to forums where 90% of the info is greatly helpful. Better off with what? There are plenty of speakers that Bose blows away. Instead of helpful comments on who someone would be better off with (in their 1 opinion also), this user just made a stupid, non-helpful comment. When is it gonna stop?

[bfalls]

You started this thread knowing full well what to expect. I believe these comments do provide a service by providing info the the uninitiated. They in turn will research for themselves. There may be a few speakers Bose best, but they're being sold from the rear of a white van as "overstock". Have you done your research, gone to links provided by members of this forum? There are none more blind than those who refuse to see.

[thekid]

Better off with something else?? Another simple minded comment. Why some "know it all" members here say things like that is beyond me. It really turns off alot of people to forums where 90% of the info is greatly helpful. Better off with what? There are plenty of speakers that Bose blows away. Instead of helpful comments on who someone would be better off with (in their 1 opinion also), this user just made a stupid, non-helpful comment. When is it gonna stop?

VX you just have to learn to ignore the comments of those who bring nothing to the table but gasoline and simple minded catch phrases. As you have seen on this post and elsewhere on this forum there are those who honestly do try to assist with their knowledge and experience (regardless of the manufacturer) without making synical/critical comments about the owner or their equipment. This forum can be a useful tool as you explore the A/V world.

Separate the wheat from the chaffe as they say.
Keep an open mind and enjoy your system.

Peace

[vxaudio]

i agree. thanks to everyone that takes the time to help.

[jocko_nc]

I just hope that everyone interested in a Bose system would open their minds and ears, and take a good hard listen. Unlearn what they think they know, and compare all that is out there. Then, each can have what he likes. To make such a big purchase on name recognition (as in recognized by the largely uninformed) is nuts. Bose's massive advertising campaign has created this situation. They make it easy to blow a lot of money on their products. Their products are easy in themselves. However, how often is the easy path the "best" path?

I honestly think that most people who do the above will end up with a better product for the money.

jocko