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  1. #76
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    Okay. When I test again with U-571, I'll adjust so there's no possibility that explosions will clip (Y'all got me paranoid now )

  2. #77
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry too much about it. When I blast the music or a good movie I'll hit the red a few times during the movie. I don't notice any nasty stuff, the walls are too busy shaking and looking over my shoulder to see if Lucifer himself has cracked the earth and crawled into my HT room.

    As long as it's only hitting the red when it's really, really loud, louder than you normally listen to(ie, your loudest peaks) then that's all you need to worry about. If it was tripping the red at your normal listening volume you'd want to change the setting.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Okay. When I test again with U-571, I'll adjust so there's no possibility that explosions will clip (Y'all got me paranoid now )
    your funny

  4. #79
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    BTW, when I came home from work the other day I noticed a picture sitting on the floor below it's hanger. It's in a very old frame with a thick cardboard frame eye; don't think its related to my experimentation, but if it's a sign of things to come...


  5. #80
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    Sub eq round 1

    This is a before graph. I'll start setting up filters next, but I just wanted to get some comments...


  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    This is a before graph. I'll start setting up filters next, but I just wanted to get some comments...
    Rich, does this include the correction values for the Rat-shack meter?


    Ha ha ha....look at that..bet you didn't think you were missing half an octave of bass did ya?

    This is where the fun begins. And this is where all bets are off too on what the "right thing to do is". For my setup, it was a few days of trial and error. I can't just look at a graph and say this frequency, that Q, that many dB's, presto.

    Maybe Sir T or Wooch can chime in but, I would probably start with a guess that you'll want a cut for starters around 38Hz or so to lower all that stuff a bit...maybe at 1/6 octave bandwidth? You might even want to cut all that stuff below 40 Hz down to minimize the effect of that big dip, but I'm guessing that's 2 filters. You might get lucky though and get away with one filter, leaving you a nice "house curve" below 35 Hz that gradually rises. Then on the other side of your sick suckout at 45 Hz I'd probably want to think about cutting the peaks at 56, and 80Hz.

    After each filter is set, go back and measure again...the curve might look different outside the range of frequencies of the filter. Always start from lowest to highest.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Rich, does this include the correction values for the Rat-shack meter?
    What gets plotted is the compensated SPL with the correction added in using a formula for each cell.
    Quote Originally Posted by kex
    Ha ha ha....look at that..bet you didn't think you were missing half an octave of bass did ya?
    I don't know. Did I set something up wrong? I used the test tones that started @ 16Hz - 160Hz, so for the graph I deleted the rows in the table that contained tones below 16Hz and above 160Hz.
    Quote Originally Posted by kex
    This is where the fun begins. And this is where all bets are off too on what the "right thing to do is". For my setup, it was a few days of trial and error. I can't just look at a graph and say this frequency, that Q, that many dB's, presto.
    Understood. I haven't read the explanation on Q and House Curves yet, but one good thing about trial & error is that I'll be able to setup filters and such in my sleep after all's said and done.
    Quote Originally Posted by kex
    Maybe Sir T or Wooch can chime in but, I would probably start with a guess that you'll want a cut for starters around 38Hz or so to lower all that stuff a bit...maybe at 1/6 octave bandwidth? You might even want to cut all that stuff below 40 Hz down to minimize the effect of that big dip, but I'm guessing that's 2 filters. You might get lucky though and get away with one filter, leaving you a nice "house curve" below 35 Hz that gradually rises. Then on the other side of your sick suckout at 45 Hz I'd probably want to think about cutting the peaks at 56, and 80Hz.
    Don't know. I haven't read that part yet. Thanks for the ideas though.
    Quote Originally Posted by kex
    After each filter is set, go back and measure again...the curve might look different outside the range of frequencies of the filter. Always start from lowest to highest.
    Maybe I'm interpreting my graph wrong, but when I compare it to the sample graph included in the Shack's guide, it seems flatter overall.

    I'll tell ya one thing, I spent a LOT of time silencing all the rattles in the room that the test tones caused. The TV rattled, the fireplace rattled, stuff in the front hall closet rattled... and on and on and on. I've got shims all over the place!

  8. #83
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    Great post Kex. I tried to dish out some green but I need to recharge.

    Rich, you got a freakin crater going on over there

    Kex is right. You gotta get yourself a couple of free hours and have a crack at it. This is when those ear plugs are gonna come in handy Make sure you record everything you do.

    I'm interested in what the rest of the guys have to say. Come to think of it, does Sir T drop in anymore?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    ...Rich, you got a freakin crater going on over there
    I agree. BUT, IMO it legitamizes my graph when compared to the sample graph on the Shack's guide where there's a huge dip at close to the same frequency.
    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    Kex is right. You gotta get yourself a couple of free hours and have a crack at it. This is when those ear plugs are gonna come in handy Make sure you record everything you do.
    Will do. I've used Excel quite a bit in my working life, so I know my way around it pretty well. I've got a couple sets of earplugs too...

    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    I'm interested in what the rest of the guys have to say. Come to think of it, does Sir T drop in anymore?
    I haven't seen The T in quite a while. If it's because he's sick of pix, and it comes to a vote of who to ban, dumbass gets my vote hands down.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Will do. I've used Excel quite a bit in my working life, so I know my way around it pretty well. I've got a couple sets of earplugs too...
    Yeah if you tweak something and get bad results, you can always go back and start from a decent spot. I had to do that A LOT of times. Yeah, your about to have some serious fun

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    Yeah if you tweak something and get bad results, you can always go back and start from a decent spot. I had to do that A LOT of times. Yeah, your about to have some serious fun
    Heck, I can still send it back and just be happy with the results of the sub's new placement.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Heck, I can still send it back and just be happy with the results of the sub's new placement.
    you'll do a good job. it's not the easiest thing to worth with but it gets the job done and the results are worth it.

  13. #88
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    BTW, before I forget, I watched U-571 in glorious DTSHD-ma last night on "loud". Some of the explosions hit 92 dB in the room ( ), but at no time did they clip at the BFD, so all things being equal to the bullet test scene in Dark Knight, the bullet test scene wins the peak dB matchup on my equipment.

  14. #89
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    A few inaccuracies in my post #82, especially about my graph looking flatter than The Shack's example. It looks to me like my first filter should start just after the first test tone: ~17Hz. don't ya think?
    Quote Originally Posted by kex
    Always start from lowest to highest.

  15. #90
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Congrats Rich. I am glad to see that you are enjoying your new toy.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    A few inaccuracies in my post #82, especially about my graph looking flatter than The Shack's example. It looks to me like my first filter should start just after the first test tone: ~17Hz. don't ya think?
    Well, that's up to you....you might want to leave the frequencies below 30 Hz a few dB higher - the BFD pages call this a "house curve". You might not.

    Either way. At 17 Hz, you are near the extreme of your subs bass ouput.

    Now, remember how a filter works. It is "centered" at a certain frequency, but the curve is as wide or narrow as the Q setting you plug in. Remember the filter is basically going to apply a cut in a sort of "U" shape depending on how much cut you apply and how wide the Q.

    So say you cut -10 dB centered at 30 Hz, if your bandwidth is wide enough, you'd expect 30 Hz to be down by -10 dB, and the frequencies lower and higher to be cut by less. So 25 and 35 Hz might only be cut by 4 dB, and 20 and 30Hz only cut by 2dB for example (those are made up numbers).

    So your bandwidth will need to be wide to reach 17Hz, and it would be cut weaker than the center frequency is cut.

    And cutting at 17 Hz will cut frequencies on either side...you probably want to focus on "center frequencies" when cutting.

    Not sure that made any sense?

    Oh, you generally only want a few filters on this thing (3 or 4 I see most often), so use them wisely.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Not sure that made any sense?
    Sounds good to me

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Congrats Rich. I am glad to see that you are enjoying your new toy.
    Thanks GM. Maybe after this project I'll stop tweaking for a while... Maybe...

    How's your piggy-bank looking?

  19. #94
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc

    Oh, you generally only want a few filters on this thing (3 or 4 I see most often), so use them wisely.
    The rest I get, but why is it that fewer filters is better? Wouldn't it be more precise to have more filters with smaller Q's? Do you end up with a smoother curve with fewer filters? Does the overlap become too complicated?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Thanks GM. Maybe after this project I'll stop tweaking for a while... Maybe...
    I gotta couple of things on my to do list but that's just me taking it to the extreme. I think that once you get your bass squared away the rest of your system should be sounding good.

  21. #96
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Thanks GM. Maybe after this project I'll stop tweaking for a while... Maybe...

    How's your piggy-bank looking?

    At least until someone pricks your interest in something new.

    Piggy is looking OK. That other problem is finally coming to an end. Should be done in a couple weeks. But now we have GM 2.0 on the way. Most of my wanted upgrades will still be on hold. The BFD should be within budget though. We'll see.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    At least until someone pricks your interest in something new.
    I'm more comfortable with the word "piques" as opposed to the word "pricks".

    Quote Originally Posted by Dad-to-be
    Piggy is looking OK. That other problem is finally coming to an end. Should be done in a couple weeks. But now we have GM 2.0 on the way. Most of my wanted upgrades will still be on hold. The BFD should be within budget though. We'll see.
    And everything is well with Mom-to-be I trust?

  23. #98
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    I'm more comfortable with the word "piques" as opposed to the word "pricks".
    You say tomato.........

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    And everything is well with Mom-to-be I trust?
    Everything? If by everything, you mean that the morning sickness (that's really 24/7) is part of being well. Or that the moodyness is well. Or that she won't let me "play through" is well. Then yeah, everything is great.
    We go for more sono-pics this Wednesday. We should be able to tell if it's going to be Sarah or Michael.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    The rest I get, but why is it that fewer filters is better? Wouldn't it be more precise to have more filters with smaller Q's? Do you end up with a smoother curve with fewer filters? Does the overlap become too complicated?
    No. Well, I shouldn't say that. If you are a master EQ-er and know what you're doing, then yeah, go ahead and perform surgery cutting up those frequencies.

    However, I've always been told over and over at the HTshack and by the sages here, that the BFD is a great tool, but has it's limits like any eq. The more filters you apply, the more unwanted impact you're going to have on frequencies on either side of the filter. You could be distorting the signal unintentionally. You might also have an effect on mulitples of the frequencies you target. I don't profess to be the BFD guru here though, so I'm hoping Wooch or someone will chime in and help you out.

    In general, we aim to flatten the big peaks, those are the audible ones. Our ears are less sensitive to smaller deviations. And a few well placed broad filters can smooth everything out rather nicely. If nothing else, killing the big peaks accomplishes most of the benefit you're aiming for.

  25. #100
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    I think I get it now. Less is more. More or less.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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