• 03-27-2009, 07:04 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GMichael
    You could have some room canceling going on. (That whole node, mode or whatever thingy) If so, then I think that all your boosting at 45 will do no good other than to boost everything around it. Did you put those panels up yet?

    Umm... well, I, uhhhh... :o

    I've got four more panels to assemble, and two of those pre-made designer frabric panels to hang, so while I'm hanging a new ceiling fan this weekend...

    So would you say I'm at a good stopping point for now, and that I should continue to treat the room? I realize that the panels won't directly affect the sub frequencies, but dumbing down the reflections at higher frequencies is still a good thing to do. The walls are still essentially bare.
  • 03-27-2009, 07:18 AM
    GMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Umm... well, I, uhhhh... :o

    I've got four more panels to assemble, and two of those pre-made designer frabric panels to hang, so while I'm hanging a new ceiling fan this weekend...

    So would you say I'm at a good stopping point for now, and that I should continue to treat the room? I realize that the panels won't directly affect the sub frequencies, but dumbing down the reflections at higher frequencies is still a good thing to do. The walls are still essentially bare.

    Stopping? What are the odds of that?

    Bare walls are not your friends. Once you put up those panels, you may have different readings. I'd think that you'd be better off setting those up before you finish tweeking the BFD. But that doesn't mean that you couldn't pump up the volume a little first.:thumbsup:
  • 03-27-2009, 07:28 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Actually I did increase the sub's volume last night after the movie, and I'll take some time tonite to match it up to the rest of the speakers. Then I'll play that sequence from Dark Night again and adjust the sub accordingly. (Edit: Wait a minute, I wonder if changing the sub out volume at the receiver will change the readings :idea: )
    BTW, I just bought this: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UCA202.aspx ($39) so I can start using the REW s/w. :ihih:
  • 03-27-2009, 07:52 AM
    GMichael
    HMMmmm... Very interesting. I've saved that link now. Tanx.

    I think I remember Kex and/or LJ saying that turning the volume up on the sub is better than changing the receiver's LFE output level. Something about headroom, distortion or such.
  • 03-27-2009, 08:17 AM
    L.J.
    Yeah you adjust the volume from the sub. Once the AVR sub output is set, you leave it alone.

    Rich, what's the problem with your response? Looks like your doing a good job. Bump up the volume to match the rest of your speakers. Actually, my sub is probably bumped 3-4 db above the rest of my system.
  • 03-27-2009, 08:27 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Will do L.J. :thumbsup:

    Did I read on PSN at your avatar where you were going on vacation again? Couple days later it said: AAAAAAAHHHHHHH. :sosp:
  • 03-27-2009, 08:32 AM
    L.J.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Will do L.J. :thumbsup:

    Did I read on PSN at your avatar where you were going on vacation again? Couple days later it said: AAAAAAAHHHHHHH. :sosp:

    Had a fight with some family members and I was pissed. I'm all better now :ciappa:
  • 03-27-2009, 08:38 AM
    GMichael
    Hey LJ,

    How's it going? Sorry that I couldn't write more the other day. I was in the middle of a race and no one would wait for me.
  • 03-27-2009, 08:39 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Finish MGS4 yet L.J.? :p
  • 03-27-2009, 08:45 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GMichael
    HMMmmm... Very interesting. I've saved that link now. Tanx.

    Forgot to mention... that was the Parts Express price. Their part number is 248-599.
  • 03-27-2009, 08:48 AM
    GMichael
    Cool. Tanx again.
  • 03-27-2009, 08:52 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Ya know I haven't seen much of kex-o-matic recently. Hope he didn't slip on a hockey puck and land on his laptop! :eek6:
  • 03-27-2009, 06:28 PM
    Woochifer
    Looks like you've done a great job with working around that huge frequency cancellation. As LJ said, just boost the levels so that they're about 4 db higher than the mains, and you'll have a very high impact home theater experience. The whole point of doing the equalization is to eliminate the big peaks and valleys, and allow you to more accurately set the levels. With an unequalized sub, the wideband SPL meter reading will often be skewed by the peaks or cancellations. In the worst cases (like mine before installing the BFD), you wind up with anemic bass accompanied by occasional ringing notes that rattle your head. With the flatter response curve, you get fuller and tighter bass that's free from boominess.
  • 03-27-2009, 07:18 PM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Wooch, do you think that overall my sub level is too low? Right now I'm watching Roger Water's "In The Flesh" and after setting it's level using the receiver's pink noise tones; the sub's amp is turned all the way up, I'm not hearing bass like I was hearing before setting up the BFD.

    I have Master and Commander and I'm going to watch it on Saturday, so I expect the LFE response will be better, but right now with "In the Flesh", with a DD soundtrack, I'm a bit dissapointed.
  • 03-28-2009, 03:56 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Wooch, do you think that overall my sub level is too low? Right now I'm watching Roger Water's "In The Flesh" and after setting it's level using the receiver's pink noise tones; the sub's amp is turned all the way up, I'm not hearing bass like I was hearing before setting up the BFD.

    I have Master and Commander and I'm going to watch it on Saturday, so I expect the LFE response will be better, but right now with "In the Flesh", with a DD soundtrack, I'm a bit dissapointed.

    Of course you're not hearing bass like you used to, because you don't want to hear the same bass as before. You want BETTER bass, and a flat-EQ'd signal sounds a lot better.

    If you haven't adjusted the overall level since measuring out that plot graph, then you definitely need to adjust it upward. If your amp has a two-channel L/R input, then you should get a line splitter and use it to split the subwoofer signal and use both the L and R input. That kind of signal coupling on a two-channel sub input will increase the output by 6 db.

    Also, on the back of the BFD, there's a output switch that alters the output by 14 db. Generally, the recommendation is to leave the button pushed in (-10 db), but if you're already pushing the amp to max, then you might want to try it in the "studio" setting (+4 db).

    You should also use your receiver to boost the subwoofer output. The overall level should be about 4 db higher than the mains, and with EQ'd bass, that will give you plenty of low end.
  • 03-29-2009, 08:55 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Of course you're not hearing bass like you used to, because you don't want to hear the same bass as before. You want BETTER bass, and a flat-EQ'd signal sounds a lot better.

    Understood. I should've remembered that from previous BFD discussions.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wooch
    If you haven't adjusted the overall level since measuring out that plot graph, then you definitely need to adjust it upward. If your amp has a two-channel L/R input, then you should get a line splitter and use it to split the subwoofer signal and use both the L and R input. That kind of signal coupling on a two-channel sub input will increase the output by 6 db.

    Yes it does and yes I do. I was paying attention during that lesson. :smilewinkgrin:

    I'll plot my latest graph with my sub's level at max later, but I have a new problem. After running the frequency sweep with the sub at max, I heard what I thought was the fan on the FiOS STB humming... nope. I did some troubleshooting including plugging the sub into a different outlet as well as plugging the BFD into another outlet, but each time when I turned the volume up on the sub, the hum was still present. When I put the BFD in "Bypass" the level decreased somewhat, but it wasn't until I removed the cables from the BFD and connected them together with an adapter, thus physically bypassing it, that the hum stopped. I think I've got a ground loop so next step is to work on eliminating that problem.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wooch
    Also, on the back of the BFD, there's a output switch that alters the output by 14 db. Generally, the recommendation is to leave the button pushed in (-10 db), but if you're already pushing the amp to max, then you might want to try it in the "studio" setting (+4 db).

    Okay, but I'll first try your suggestion below after I work on my hummmmmmmm. :mad2:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wooch
    You should also use your receiver to boost the subwoofer output. The overall level should be about 4 db higher than the mains, and with EQ'd bass, that will give you plenty of low end.

    For some reason I thought that adjusting the sub level at the receiver would exagerate the peaks and nulls. Guess not.
  • 03-29-2009, 08:59 AM
    L.J.
    Yeah that smooth bass takes a couple of days to get use too.

    Wooch said it perfectly. I couldn't set my level correctly in the past due to the huge peaks I had. I was shocked at how much I could increase the sub's volume after it was EQ'd. The smooth bass blends well with the rest of your system and you should have no clue that the bass is coming from your sub. Basically, I'm saying that your sub should be invisible once your all finished.
  • 03-30-2009, 05:40 AM
    GMichael
    Rich,

    Are you runing the AVR's "pink noise" before or after turning your sub up? You should have the sub set below half power when runing the set-up, and then turn it up as needed after.
  • 03-30-2009, 06:13 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    I ran the pink noise test after setting up the filters. The level at the sub was at max and I was still 2dB lower than all other speakers that were at 70dB SPL (Dolby recommendation).

    To get 70dB on all speakers I set the receiver volume to -5dB reference. When running the sub EQ test tones, I used -18dB receiver reference since that's about the level I was at when I was playing a movie to get the sub's output to just this side of clipping when the BFD was in bypass. Yes, the amp gets turned off when I'm running the sub's test tones, which BTW reside on the PS3 now.
  • 03-30-2009, 10:03 AM
    L.J.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GMichael
    Hey LJ,

    How's it going? Sorry that I couldn't write more the other day. I was in the middle of a race and no one would wait for me.

    Hey what's up GM? Sorry I missed this. Everything is going great with me. I'm losing weight, my marriage has hit a new level, I have a killer sound system and my 10 year old is an honor roll student :thumbsup: I gotta say that I'm happy and I'm enjoying life right now.

    Now if I could only get my 3 year old to use the freakin' toilet :mad2:
  • 03-30-2009, 11:24 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    This is what someone I work with recommended I use for my ground loop problem:
    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...14&tab=summary

    I should plug this thing in-line between the BFD and the sub. The problem I have is I'm introducing more connection points including another adapter since both in & out are male ends, and I'm also losing shielding due to those scrawny wires. The other thing, I'll only be using one side (i.e. red to red) so I wonder what issues might occur with the other two unterminated connectors. :idea:
  • 03-30-2009, 03:15 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by L.J.
    Hey what's up GM? Sorry I missed this. Everything is going great with me. I'm losing weight, my marriage has hit a new level, I have a killer sound system and my 10 year old is an honor roll student :thumbsup: I gotta say that I'm happy and I'm enjoying life right now.

    Glad to hear that things are going well. :thumbsup:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by L.J.
    Now if I could only get my 3 year old to use the freakin' toilet :mad2:

    Well, my (almost) two-year old has taken to using her potty as a hat! :shocked: AND she thinks it's funny when she tries putting her "hat" on daddy's head. Fortunately, she hasn't figured out how to use the potty for its intended purpose, so we've had no accidents ... so far! :ihih:
  • 03-31-2009, 05:03 AM
    GMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Glad to hear that things are going well. :thumbsup:



    Well, my (almost) two-year old has taken to using her potty as a hat! :shocked: AND she thinks it's funny when she tries putting her "hat" on daddy's head. Fortunately, she hasn't figured out how to use the potty for its intended purpose, so we've had no accidents ... so far! :ihih:

    Two? TWO!? It's been two years already? Time sure is picking up steam.
  • 04-01-2009, 05:45 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    YO! What about ME?!?!?! WTF???

    Should I buy that RS thingy or not? :incazzato:
  • 04-01-2009, 05:55 AM
    Luvin Da Blues
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    YO! What about ME?!?!?! WTF???

    Should I buy that RS thingy or not? :incazzato:


    Well Rich, if you gone thru all the basic steps to get rid of this hum then you may not have any choice. At that price, I would give it a try.
  • 04-01-2009, 06:03 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    The cheapest and easiest fix would be to just use a cheater plug, but that's against the rules in my house. At HomeTheaterShack they recommend one that costs $59 bucks and another one that's like $40... no thanks.
  • 04-01-2009, 06:19 AM
    L.J.
    Let us know what you do Rich.....lol. Being a test dummy is pretty hard but we appreciate your efforts :biggrin5:
  • 04-01-2009, 07:20 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Being a test dummy isn't hard, it's (kind of) expensive.

    BTW, I'm expecting my Behringer sound card today.
  • 04-01-2009, 07:51 AM
    GMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Being a test dummy isn't hard, it's (kind of) expensive.

    BTW, I'm expecting my Behringer sound card today.

    It's a good thing you are rich.
  • 04-01-2009, 09:30 AM
    GMichael
    Maybe he is writing a very long post.
  • 04-01-2009, 09:59 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GMichael
    It's a good thing you are rich.

    :mad2: :cryin: :mad2: :cryin: :mad2: :cryin:

    :crazy:
  • 04-01-2009, 10:01 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    Why the frick is kex in this thread but not posting?!?!?! :incazzato:
  • 04-01-2009, 10:37 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    There goes that time warp thingy again. :out:

    Actually, IIRC he's shown as being in this thread for more than a week. I haven't seen him post anywhere else so I hope all is well.
  • 05-07-2009, 06:18 AM
    L.J.
    So what's up....you throw your BFD in the garbage yet :biggrin5:
  • 05-07-2009, 07:48 AM
    Rich-n-Texas
    No knucklehead! I'm dealing with "the dreaded hum" problem. I tried an isolation transformer between the BFD out and the sub in with no change, and it looks like the discussion on HTS has turned to an XLR to RCA cable adaptation. Seems to me the experts over there underestimated this problem. I haven't read the latest 'cause I've been stewing over my new car for the past 3 weeks. :cryin: