How to pick a subwoofer

[lawman]

Hey all,

So it looks like I have most of my HT system together! Got my mains just before Christmas and picked up a sound level meter yesterday so I can sych everything up. Now to the next fun part - picking a sub! And here's where I need your help.

First, since the sub produces mostly low frequencies most of which I can't hear do I need to worry about voice matching?

Second, I'm using a Yamaha HTR 5560. Should I be thinking powered or non-powered?

Third, I live in CT and the only audio stores around are either BestBuy or are seriously over priced. BB doesn't have a very wide range of brands - Definitive Tech, Martin Logan, Yamaha, Klipsch. I'd heard some good things about Paradigm and SVS. Any suggestions of brands / models I should look at?

Fourth, any other advice that you have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Lawman

Yamaha HTR 5560
Fluance SX-HTB+ mains, center, surrounds
Sony Bravia 37inch HDTV
Philips DVD player (Walmart special)
RCA 1200 Turntable
Scientific Atlantic HD Cable Box

P.S. - One more question - downfiring or frontfiring?

[johnny p]

I'm not sure if it's a personal preference thing, but to assist with placement, I prefer downward firing...... Can't help with the rest, as I have the same questions also, and will be shopping subs soon!

[zepman1]

Subs do not need to be timbre matched with the speakers, it would be impossible anyhow!

I would look at the subs at Worst Buy to at least get a feel for you options. I would imagine their Def Tech sub to be overpriced for what it is, but the Klipsch may be decent and a good value. For quality mass market subwoofers, Velodyne has always been my preference by a long shot.

If the sub is doing dual duty for music and HT, I try to find as musical of a sub I can, and then just make sure it has enough raw power to do HT justice. By musical, I mean is it fast and responsive to music, or is it muddy and unrefined... Some cheaper subs have no responsiveness and are just terrible for music, but may be OK for HT.

Not sure about that receiver, but I would assume you want a powered sub. Most receivers cannot power a sub, and I don't think you would want to do that anyhow. Even for a small room I would want no less than 150W for a good sub, and ideally 250W+ for HT.

For a small to medium room, I prefer a 10" sub, which is usually more musical than a 12", but can get down deep for HT. To me, an 8" is too small for HT. If you have a large room, that may dictate a 12" sub with plenty of juice.

Online you can get some good deals on subs. SVS is always highly recommended, and you can get some phenomenal deals at Parts Express on the Dayton Titanic sub kits. But the problem is you can't really audition them this way. Probably less of a concern with SVS due to the consistently good reviews they get.

[RoyY51]

You might also want to check into Outlaw Audio subs. They have several different models now, and always get great reviews (including mine). And, because you're ordering direct, you cut out the middle-man's markup. My LFM-1 is the equal to any $1000 sub I've ever heard, but only cost a little over half that.

Great sound for both movies and music!

[lawman]

Thanks for the advice folks! That's really helpful.

Roy - checked out the reviews on the LFM-1 - you're right the reviews are off the charts! Wish I could audition it somewhere. Oh well...

One question re. downfiring - my room is carpeted. Will that make a significant difference? Any way I can get around the problem?

[RoyY51]

The Outlaw subs are downward firing, but they come with approx. 2" spikes that raise them off the carpet. I also used the supplied disks that fit under the spikes. Not only do they keep the spikes from poking holes in my new carpet, but they raise the sub up just that much more. Plenty of clearance!

BTW, if you happen to live near Orange County, CA, you're welcome to drop by my house for an audition.

[lawman]

Thanks again Roy. I read somewhere though that carpeting muffles the sound of a downfiring sub. Is that true?

[RoyY51]

I've not found that to be the case, although some members of this board may have a different take on the subject. If anything, I would think that the carpeting would help tame any "boominess" caused by room interaction.

If, however, you come to the conclusion that the carpeting is a detriment, or you just feel like experimenting, you could place the sub on a 3/4" piece of plywood for a comparison. If you like what you hear, paint it black and leave it.

[f0rge]

bestbuy sells deftech and martin logan now? damn...

i'd go in a give a listen to the deftech supercube subs, they pound hard but might be expensive compared to what you can get online from SVS or outlaw. but at least you can hear them.

[f0rge]

you should also take online owner reviews with a grain of salt, A LOT of people will rate their gear very high simply because they bought it, and they either have nothing to compare it to or feel that they need to tell everyone that their stuff is amazing simply because they paid a lot for it. (i have a few friends like that, stuff sucks until they own it, then it becomes god's gift to stereo/video and nothing can touch it).

what i try to do when researching online is to read the bad reviews instead, they're generally much more helpful.

[GMichael]

Are you going to be using this sub for HT, music or both? Some subs are better at one than the other. In any case there are some very good subs out there to choose from. I went with the 15" Titanic from Parts Express. It's loud enough and deep enough for HT but still tight enough for music. As it comes in a kit, it also saved me a chunk of change. Here is their link if you are interested. You can have them assembled for an extra charge but putting one together is a snap. It took me under an hour.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ctGroup_ID=536

This one is new and looks very interesting IMO. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-742

This one may be a little more work but has a nice look to it. http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...rake/index.cfm
(Edit: you could even swap out the 1000w amp in this one with the 500w amp and also swap the 12" HO driver for the Reference Series. This would lower your costs and IMO get you a better sub for music)

[basite]

Hey all,

So it looks like I have most of my HT system together! Got my mains just before Christmas and picked up a sound level meter yesterday so I can sych everything up. Now to the next fun part - picking a sub! And here's where I need your help.

First, since the sub produces mostly low frequencies most of which I can't hear do I need to worry about voice matching?

Second, I'm using a Yamaha HTR 5560. Should I be thinking powered or non-powered?

Third, I live in CT and the only audio stores around are either BestBuy or are seriously over priced. BB doesn't have a very wide range of brands - Definitive Tech, Martin Logan, Yamaha, Klipsch. I'd heard some good things about Paradigm and SVS. Any suggestions of brands / models I should look at?

Fourth, any other advice that you have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Lawman

Yamaha HTR 5560
Fluance SX-HTB+ mains, center, surrounds
Sony Bravia 37inch HDTV
Philips DVD player (Walmart special)
RCA 1200 Turntable
Scientific Atlantic HD Cable Box

P.S. - One more question - downfiring or frontfiring?

powered, small room or large room?

if you're in a smaller room, I'd get a front firing, or when you're in an appartement, I'd take a front firing too...

in a larger room, down firing is cool too...

look at REL subs, and Velodyne...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[L.J.]

Another vote for PE sub kit. I have 2 and love both.

[musicman1999]

What is your budget and how big is your room? More music or more movies?

bill

[lawman]

H'lo all,

Thanks for the great suggestions!

To answer everyone's questions:

i) Largish room but it's an attic apartment so low ceilings which slant in
ii) Music and movies. I listen to a lot of jazz but like to watch a lot of drama / suspense / action / thriller.
iii) Budget is around $500 but I can be pushed up a couple of hundred if I'm getting good quality. Figure it's better to invest in a good sub now that will last me through a couple of speaker upgrades. Plus I saved a bunch of cash on the receiver (craigslist) and speakers (Fluance).

I went down to Worst Buy yesterday and checked out what they have. For some reason the local store didn't have the DefTech and Logans at the store (though the website says they sell them). So I picked up a Klipsch Sub-12 which I figured I could audition at home and return if I don't like. I've also ordered the Outlaw so I can do the same. Unfortunately BB's listening areas suck.

Lawman

[musicman1999]

If music is more important than movies look for a sealed sub as opposed to ported, they perform better with music. Take your time with auditions, you need the sub to blend perfectly with your speakers.Also you will need to raise the sub off the floor to decouple it from your floor or your bass will just go downstairs to the apartment below.

bill

[hydroman]

^werd.

I use Metallica to audition subs. Those pounding bass drums will instantly differentiate between muddy/boomy and tight bass.

i am building my 15" sealed sub using dayton MKIII and powered with my NAD amp for less than $300 total.

[johnny p]

anyone there audition this one yet? http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Velod...oductDetail.do

I might try to give it a listen, as I will need a new sub in the future.

[RoadRunner6]

Johnny P,

Stay away from the little compact cube shaped subs unless you have a severe space problem. They have high power amps and huge magnets to try and compensate for the inherent lack of bass performance due to the small cabinet yolume. Get the largest box you have room for, all things being equal. You will get better bass with lower extention and lower distortion. If you want a great 8" sub for the price check out the LFM-2 sub from Outlaw Audio (direct to buyer seller).

Lawman,

I own the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus. I love the georgeous plexiglass top. My wife thinks the appearance is stunning in our room. We have low carpets and no problem. I think you'll find the Outlaw goes deeper with lower distortion than the Klipsch 12 which is tuned to have a strong peak in the 30-40hz range. Sounds impressive at first but not too flat in response.

Other direct to buyer brands to keep in mind if for any reason you are not happy with the two you will audition are HSU (the Outlaw is basically a close clone of the HSU) and SVS. Both of these companies make superb subs for great prices.

RR6

[lawman]

RR6

Thanks for the comments on the Outlaw. Have been using it for the last couple of weeks or so and there is no comparison between the Outlaw and the Klipsch - it blows it away. I was amazed at the difference - and for only a $200 difference in price! I'm no HT expert but it was patently obvious to me that the Outlaw is in a completely different league from the Kipsch.

Agree with you about the plexiglass top!

Lawman

[Sabir]

Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,