Panasonic XR55 - am I dreaming?

[abstracta]

Bought an XR55 because I was intrigued by the XR55's digital amp, suspiciously positive reviews, and small size. I planned on keeping my trusty B&K 200wpc dedicated amp and Pre-amp until I could find a buyer, then get a Pioneer 1015 and move the Panasonic into the den. That *was* the plan.

Uh, the XR55 just humiliated my seperates, guys. No, it *spanked* them. The straight 2-channel sound field produced by the XR55 was more detailed, warmer, broader, and was just plain superior on every level. Sounded like somebody pulled a couple layers of carpeting off the front of my speakers. A little 9lb A/V receiver just crushed my 40+lb dedicated amplifier and matching pre-amp. That's not fair - at all.

I guess the question now is if I should wait for other manufacturers to jump on the digital amp bandwagon because if the Pany sounds that good, it's only a matter of time before others follow and improve the performance. True/false?

[ericl]

Pretty sweet eh?

I've got the previous modelthe xr50. it's great. I would use it in my main system but its just not compatible.. not good with vinyl, or my big ol' klipsch speakers. I want to try maggies with the panasonic though..

[topspeed]

I guess the question now is if I should wait for other manufacturers to jump on the digital amp bandwagon because if the Pany sounds that good, it's only a matter of time before others follow and improve the performance. True/false?

In fact, they already have. Once you understand the technology, switching amps just make a heckuva lot more sense than traditional inefficient Class A or A/B designs. Whereas those amps are anywhere from 20-35% efficient, a good switching amp is closer to 90%. The wasted energy is released as heat, which is why Class A designs also double nicely as a space heater. Switching amps don't need heavy heat sinks so their cabinets are smaller and far lighter. There's more, but you get the idea.

Will switching topologies become the new wave of amplification? Jeff Rowland, ARC, Bel Canto, PS Audio, and Spectron seem to think so.

[GMichael]

Am I mising something?

Is this the unit you are talking about?
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panas...oductDetail.do

[abstracta]

not good with vinyl, or my big ol' klipsch speakers.

Not working with the Klipsch I can understand being the XR55 is forward enough. I can imagine things being a bit obnoxious combined with Klipsch. Why not a good mix with vinyl though? Sound a bit too 'fat' in the midrange perhaps? Be curious to see if the Pany could push the maggies though. My B&K 3030 *barely* was adequate when combined with a pair of 1.6's I tried at a friends a few years back.

The wasted energy is released as heat, which is why Class A designs also double nicely as a space heater

Hmm, my Pany does seem to run just as warm as my conventional amp, but I can understand the efficiency thing.

One thing my ears are very sensitive to is sonic masking, which is how various instruments and sounds in the same general timber seperate themselves sonically upon playback. In many respects, I consider sonic masking more important than imaging, and it's heavily influenced between the source and speakers. Until you hear equipment really good at limiting sonic masking, you don't really understand what you're missing.

This may seem like outright sacrilege, but in my recent memory the only gear I've heard that had the same lack of sonic masking as the Pany was a Mark Levinson rack. I've heard various incarnations of Classe', Hafler, Bryston, and so on. While they had 'uber' current capability, their implementation was usually to fix another problem or deficiency. At least my initial impression is the digital amps wipe that slate clean.

[Geoffcin]

Bought an XR55 because I was intrigued by the XR55's digital amp, suspiciously positive reviews, and small size. I planned on keeping my trusty B&K 200wpc dedicated amp and Pre-amp until I could find a buyer, then get a Pioneer 1015 and move the Panasonic into the den. That *was* the plan.

Uh, the XR55 just humiliated my seperates, guys. No, it *spanked* them. The straight 2-channel sound field produced by the XR55 was more detailed, warmer, broader, and was just plain superior on every level. Sounded like somebody pulled a couple layers of carpeting off the front of my speakers. A little 9lb A/V receiver just crushed my 40+lb dedicated amplifier and matching pre-amp. That's not fair - at all.

I guess the question now is if I should wait for other manufacturers to jump on the digital amp bandwagon because if the Pany sounds that good, it's only a matter of time before others follow and improve the performance. True/false?

The Panny is a decent mid-level receiver. Yes, it uses ICE power, but just about everything else in the box is budget grade stuff. My guess is that there was a problem with your seperates for there to be such a difference in quality. The "carpet removal" syndrome is a dead give away here.

[ericl]

The Panny is a decent mid-level receiver. Yes, it uses ICE power, but just about everything else in the box is budget grade stuff. My guess is that there was a problem with your seperates for there to be such a difference in quality. The "carpet removal" syndrome is a dead give away here.

Ah but Geoffcin-San, have you heard it?

[Geoffcin]

Ah but Geoffcin-San, have you heard it?

He's discribed a sound change like "removed carpet". That would mean a serious change in high frequency responce. I would expect something like that from a change of speakers, because there's so much variability in speaker freqency response. But I've NEVER heard a change like that from one quality amp to another, at least one that's operating correctly.

[edtyct]

For what it's worth, B&K amps used to have a reputation for an overall dark sound, though I haven't heard one for a while. I suppose that another amp without that characteristic could strike someone as more detailed. It's hard to get an intersubjective sense of the effect at this distance. Personally, I've had the impression of a veil being removed, or added, to a modest system with a change in amplification. I distinctly remember that next to an Adcom, a Rotel seemed sharp and bright, and next to a Hafler, an Adcom seemed more reserved but less tubby, especially in the lower frequencies. Audio Research could sound clinical, conrad-johnson cavernous--whatever. I've also had sonic impressions from equipment that other people don't seem to hear, and vice versa, though as an old duffer, I get a natural rolloff at the top.

[Geoffcin]

For what it's worth, B&K amps used to have a reputation for an overall dark sound, though I haven't heard one for a while. I suppose that another amp without that characteristic could strike someone as more detailed. It's hard to get an intersubjective sense of the effect at this distance. Personally, I've had the impression of a veil being removed, or added, to a modest system with a change in amplification. I distinctly remember that next to an Adcom, a Rotel seemed sharp and bright, and next to a Hafler, an Adcom seemed more reserved but less tubby, especially in the lower frequencies. Audio Research could sound clinical, conrad-johnson cavernous--whatever. I've also had sonic impressions from equipment that other people don't seem to hear, and vice versa, though as an old duffer, I get a natural rolloff at the top.

A veil removed yes, sharper focus, or less tubby in the bass yes, these are all what you would hear between amps of different caracter. "Several layers of carpet" no way!

I happen to really LIKE Panny kit. My TV is a Panny, and I've got a few other electronics around here with the panny logo. I also happen to like digital amplification. I'm listening to a BASH powered computer system, and in a little while I'm going to go crank up my main audio system which uses digital amplification. I'm absolutely GLAD that this guy likes his new receiver, but he describes something that could only have come from a problem with his old gear.

[MCH]

I bought the Panny XR50 a few months ago to replace my Outlaw 1050 (which was a nice reciever, but crapped out. Too expensive to ship and have repaired (live in Canada)). I was extremely surprised how well this amp sounded, compared to the Outlaw (at about 25% of the Outlaw cost). I used to get an annoying hum through my sub. I tried all kinds of things but couldn't get rid of it. When I hooked up my new Panny the sub hum was gone. The Panny is extemely quite, no hiss whatsoever. I felt the clarity in the music had also improved (this can be very subjective though). The music just seemed to be kicked up a notch.
But the down side of the Panny is the analogue output. My SACDs didn't sound as good as with the Outlaw. Plus I'm getting 'overflow' messages on the Panny (not enough power I assume). I don't buy any SACDs anymore; not a big loss.
The Panny is definitely excellent in the digital domain. The cost was unbelieveable $250 CAD.