• 05-02-2009, 07:23 PM
    traut
    Another HT receiver thread
    The On Screen Display function seems to have died on my HK DPR-2005, which sucks b/c some of the functions are only accessible through the OSD. I'm pretty sure that buying something new will be more cost effective than trying to get this repaired (not to mention receivers have changed quite a bit over the past few years), so I'm coming to the experts for advice. Budget is $300 to $500.

    Must haves: pre-outs, bass management, analog multi-channel inputs, good warranty

    Nice to have: at least 3 HDMI inputs, HDMI upconversion to 1080p, self calibration system

    Other Gear: Mitsubishi 720p DLP TV, Squeezebox, Sony DVD/CD/SACD carousel, Dish HD DVR, Xbox 360, Linn LK140 amp

    Speakers: Vandersteen 3sig (driven by the Linn), Insignia bookshelfs for rears, DIY 15" Dayton Audio Sub

    Power's not too big a requirement, since it will only be driving the rears (not using a serperate center), but it'd be nice to have some in reserve in case I do ever decide to get one.

    I'm not a big believer in amplification having much of an impact on sound, so features and reliability are my main concerns. I think that a new 1080p flat panel is a good possiblity in the near future, so a unit that has excellent upconversion capability would be nice.

    Is Yamaha still considered to be at the top reliability wise?

    Thanks in advance for any replies.
  • 05-03-2009, 05:57 PM
    Mr Peabody
    To get the features you want, especially true preamp outs, I believe Yamaha will be what you should look at. As far as I know they are still very reliable.

    btw, upconversion of low resolution sources, such as VCR, into your receiver may be necessary in order for them to pass via HDMI but you shouldn't need it for anything else as your TV will automatically upconvert to it's native resolution.
  • 05-03-2009, 06:29 PM
    02audionoob
    Perhaps I'll be pushing it, budget-wise, but maybe an Onkyo TX-SR706? $499 for a refurb at accessories4less.com.
  • 05-03-2009, 10:02 PM
    pixelthis
    1 Attachment(s)
    You are not going to get decent 1080p upconversion for five C-notes.
    Your new receiver should match your other gear in quality, a five hundred dollar receiver
    and Vandersteins? A linn amp? What a mismatch.
    I am sure you have budget constraints, we all do, but I can't recomend that you pay less than a grand , at least.
    Save your pennies, have a bake sale, sell blood.
    A receiver (or preamp) is the nerve center of your system, and you are going to be stuck with it for awhile, to say the least.
    Mine cost 1200 bucks about four years ago, still going great.
    As for Yamaha, my last one was flakey.
    Onkyo/Integra is my current brand of choice, the amps are the quietest I have ever seen
    in a receiver, and there are audiophile features, like a phono preamp.
    And the styling on Integra is cleaner than Onkyo.:1:
  • 05-04-2009, 07:26 AM
    L.J.
    In your budget, my choices would be Onkyo or Yamaha. I'd even consider going used or trying to pick up older models.


    Don't let Pix scare you with his anti Yamaha talk :nono: I own Yamaha, Onkyo & Denon. All 3 units are going strong year after year and do a great job.
  • 05-04-2009, 03:15 PM
    traut
    I'll have to take a closer look at Onkyo. We bought my brother an Onkyo HTiB for his birthday a couple years ago, and he's had no issues that I know of.

    Pixel - like I stated in the OP, I really don't buy into the fact that amplification plays too much a part in sound quality. The Linn drives the Vandy's well, it never clips (even when pushed at high levels), and they sound great together. Should I spend thousands of dollars on an amp just so that I can brag about having a Krell, Classe, etc.? I did realize after posting that the receiver probably does have a big impact on SQ for TV, DVD, Bluray, etc., so I guess that it can't be an afterthought though. This Harmon Kardon is barely 3 years old, and I'd have a hard time spending over $500 on something that may only work for a few years. (not to mention the technology may be obsolete in 3 to 5 years).

    Anybody have feelings either way for Pioneer Elite? This one seems to meet all of my requirements, and can be had for $495 shipped: http://www.ibuydigital.com/product/?53056_209

    LJ - I have considered going used since I first posted. Maybe even buying a seperate Pre/Pro, and an old amp to power the rears. Saw a used B&K Reference 50 for under $500. A used unit probably isn't going to have HDMI and the latest audio codecs, but I don't see myself getting into Bluray any time soon (if ever), and I can always run video straght to the TV.

    Does anybody know if TV broadcasters are going to start using DolbyHD, etc.? And is there that much of a difference between the newer formats and DD, DTS, etc.? I haven't had the opportunity to hear the new formats on a good system yet.
  • 05-04-2009, 07:10 PM
    Mr Peabody
    Hold up, Onkyo is normally my first recommendation for mass market receivers BUT they will not work for you as they DO NOT have preamp outputs. This is something they really need to remedy in future generations. I believe you have to go up to the 806 to get a preamp out.

    Since you will mainly use it for a preamp the Pioneer would probably work out alright. I get the models mixed up but look at Yamaha's 656 or 663, I'd check those for you but you have to look them up any way :). They do have a model around $500.00 with preamp outs and the features you are looking for.

    According to a review I read the Silicon Optix is a better upconverting chip than the Anchor Bay Realto, for what it's worth.
  • 05-04-2009, 07:17 PM
    02audionoob
    I checked the Onkyo 706 features for pre-outs before mentioning it.

    http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=f
  • 05-04-2009, 07:55 PM
    Mr Peabody
    You are correct sir, thanks for catching that. It looks like the Yamaha 663 is the one that has similar features.

    Indeed, the HD audio formats (Dolby Tru HD/DTS-MA/uncompressed PCM) are a pretty significant upgrade to sound quality.
  • 05-04-2009, 10:28 PM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by traut
    I'll have to take a closer look at Onkyo. We bought my brother an Onkyo HTiB for his birthday a couple years ago, and he's had no issues that I know of.

    I've had no issues with my Integra(rebadged onkyo)


    Quote:

    Pixel - like I stated in the OP, I really don't buy into the fact that amplification plays too much a part in sound quality. The Linn drives the Vandy's well, it never clips (even when pushed at high levels), and they sound great together. Should I spend thousands of dollars on an amp just so that I can brag about having a Krell, Classe, etc.? I did realize after posting that the receiver probably does have a big impact on SQ for TV, DVD, Bluray, etc., so I guess that it can't be an afterthought though. This Harmon Kardon is barely 3 years old, and I'd have a hard time spending over $500 on something that may only work for a few years. (not to mention the technology may be obsolete in 3 to 5 years).
    Read what I said.
    Nothing wrong with the Linn driving the VANDYS, that is not what I said.
    Basically a receiver is the control center for your gear, you cant wimp out on this.
    Do and you will regret it, this weakest link will drag down the rest of your system.
    They pack a lot into receivers these days, but I refuse to beleive that you can get your wish list for the budget you are posting. Amps have nothing to do with it.
    I would have the Linn drive the Vandys, and use the receiver amps for the rest, like you are saying, but quiteness, quality, features, etc are all affected by price.
    And maybe if you spent a few bucks on a receiver it would last more than a "few" years.
    On my receiver the video section is dated, true, but the Blu player does the codecs
    over the 7.1 and everything else is still flawless, going strong at 4 and a half years, although I am considering upgrades in the future.
    Speakers should be the most expensive part of your system, receiver second.
    A system should be balanced, and a 300-500 receiver would be a tad overshadowed
    by the rest of your gear, penny wise and pound foolish, in other words.
    All I am saying





    Quote:

    Does anybody know if TV broadcasters are going to start using DolbyHD, etc.? And is there that much of a difference between the newer formats and DD, DTS, etc.? I haven't had the opportunity to hear the new formats on a good system yet.
    We're lucky they use DD 5.1, and not even that most of the time.
    DD is the standard, either 2.0 or 5.1.
    There is no incentive to use the newer codecs and a lot of reasons not to.
    Blu is IT as far as these are concerned:1:
  • 05-05-2009, 05:16 AM
    Mr Peabody
    Pix, give the guy a break. The issue with the HK receiver is HK not how much he spent. There are HK receivers from the 70/80's still in use today with no issues. HK needs to get back to building receivers that live up to their now crumbling reputation.

    Although, I agree that the preamp section is important to the overall system I think he can find the features for his budget. The Yamaha and most other receivers offer a "direct or bypass" mode which bypasses the internal processing for 2 channel listening that should be fine for stereo use. Would a stand alone A/V preamp be better, most likely, but the guy has a stated budget.
  • 05-05-2009, 06:33 AM
    L.J.
    Traut, your AVR does not need the latest codecs to enjoy HD audio. The HD formats can be decoded in the player and output via HDMI or 5.1/7.1 analog. My 2700/PS3 combo does just fine with HD audio.
  • 05-05-2009, 08:10 AM
    Brainstorm
    Have you given it tap to see if its lose wire or dry joint on the PCB that may only require simple bit of soldering?
  • 05-05-2009, 10:20 AM
    blackraven
    In your budget, I would seriously consider this receiver

    http://www.crutchfield.com/p_158STDG...ures_and_specs

    Here's some other sites http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...03&dcaid=17902
  • 05-05-2009, 03:05 PM
    traut
    Pix/Peabody - my current rcvr actually had an MSRP of $1999, but I got it for a cool $799 when it was discontinued, so it was a pretty strong unit. I guess I've just got a sour taste in my mouth right now, so I wasn't wanting to drop a lot of cash on something I may have to replace again in 3 or 4 years. It seems like that old saying "they don't make them like they used to" is getting truer by the day. I am a sucker for a good deal though, so I do usually look to discontinued/refurb/gently used when buying electronics (other than speakers, but I did buy the Vandies used at about half the price of new :cornut: ). The technology changes so quickly that receivers and disc players feel almost like a throwaway commodity.

    So I guess if I want to keep to the $500 budget, I need to go with a discontinued or refurb unit, to get what I'm looking for. It looks like the Onkyo 706 (refurb) and Pioneer VSX-01TXH both fit the bill. I'll have to compare the two before making a decision, not to mention take Brainstorm's advice and check for a loose/broken solder connection. I've never soldered in my life though, so I'd have to get some help, but could prbly arrange that.

    Raven - yeah, I checked out that Sony before, b/c cnet gave it a great review. I have hear nothing but bad things about Sony reliability for close to a decade now though. Also, that unit doesn't have any preouts, except for the sub.

    Thanks everybody that's contributed to the thread. If anybody has any strong arguments for or against the Onk or Pio, I'm all ears. Or if anybody else knows of any other great deals out there! :D
  • 05-05-2009, 06:39 PM
    Mr Peabody
    Check www.spearitsound.com under their "demos/specials" link. They have a host of deals on receivers. If you can find a NAD that will fit your needs it would be better than average sound.
  • 05-05-2009, 10:37 PM
    blackraven
    I'd go with the Onkyo, better amp section.

    Consider this Marantz SR5003 http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html

    http://www.ecomelectronics.com/prodi...29&ref=froogle
  • 05-05-2009, 10:41 PM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by traut
    Pix/Peabody - my current rcvr actually had an MSRP of $1999, but I got it for a cool $799 when it was discontinued, so it was a pretty strong unit. I guess I've just got a sour taste in my mouth right now, so I wasn't wanting to drop a lot of cash on something I may have to replace again in 3 or 4 years. It seems like that old saying "they don't make them like they used to" is getting truer by the day. I am a sucker for a good deal though, so I do usually look to discontinued/refurb/gently used when buying electronics (other than speakers, but I did buy the Vandies used at about half the price of new :cornut: ). The technology changes so quickly that receivers and disc players feel almost like a throwaway commodity.

    So I guess if I want to keep to the $500 budget, I need to go with a discontinued or refurb unit, to get what I'm looking for. It looks like the Onkyo 706 (refurb) and Pioneer VSX-01TXH both fit the bill. I'll have to compare the two before making a decision, not to mention take Brainstorm's advice and check for a loose/broken solder connection. I've never soldered in my life though, so I'd have to get some help, but could prbly arrange that.

    Raven - yeah, I checked out that Sony before, b/c cnet gave it a great review. I have hear nothing but bad things about Sony reliability for close to a decade now though. Also, that unit doesn't have any preouts, except for the sub.

    Thanks everybody that's contributed to the thread. If anybody has any strong arguments for or against the Onk or Pio, I'm all ears. Or if anybody else knows of any other great deals out there! :D

    I would go with Onkyo, pioneer aint what they used to be.
    Harmon went into a Chinese venture with a few other players, and if you think your receiver is bad, the first lots had horrendous problems, practically ruined the once great name of this company, NAD suffered also, further proving that the Chinese are NOT
    the Japanese.
    I wouldnt buy a Harmon clock radio.:1:
  • 05-06-2009, 06:30 AM
    bfalls
    Unless you have the budget to get a good receiver, I'd still try to troubleshoot your current one. One thought that came to mind when you said the display went away, is earlier units couldn't pass OSD via component video. Both my Yamaha and Denon earlier receivers are this way. I had to make a special connection via S-video to get OSD. Is it possible your unit is this way and you've forgotten since the last setup? You may still have OSD, just not on the input you're viewing, or you didn't set it up after your last reconfiguration. Just a thought.
  • 05-06-2009, 10:27 PM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bfalls
    Unless you have the budget to get a good receiver, I'd still try to troubleshoot your current one. One thought that came to mind when you said the display went away, is earlier units couldn't pass OSD via component video. Both my Yamaha and Denon earlier receivers are this way. I had to make a special connection via S-video to get OSD. Is it possible your unit is this way and you've forgotten since the last setup? You may still have OSD, just not on the input you're viewing, or you didn't set it up after your last reconfiguration. Just a thought.


    and an exelent one at that.
    I had a yamaha that was the same way.:1: