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  1. #26
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Cats and dogs...
    Cats and dogs...
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  2. #27
    Can a crooner get a gig? dean_martin's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Vizio is the "official" tv of the NFL even though I doubt many NFL players own a Vizio. (That may change with the lock-out.) Anyhow, it probably cost some bucks to get into that position with the NFL. Wonder what happens with their contract with the league if there's no football this year?

    Similarly, every time I see an add or promo during an NBA game saying that Hyundai is the official automaker of the NBA, I say OK, show me one NBA player driving a Hyundai. I'm sure we'll see Kobe Bryant on MTV Cribs taking us into his garage and showing us his Sonata with 22in rims. I'm sure someone caught a glimpse of Commissioner Stern leaving a Finals game in his Elantra.

    (Nothing against those two manufacturers. Both have been around long enough to put out quality products. I just find the relationships amusing.)

  3. #28
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101 View Post
    All I'm saying is that Visio's ain't such a bargain anymore.... Not that it has poor this or excellent that, just that its no longer cheap.... IN PRICE.

    Worf
    SAY anything about VIZIO and you get a speech from Talky
    about how you're a HT sinner iffen you don't have a zillion
    dollar science project made up of antique CRTS and scalers
    that "the boys from work" cobbled up for you.
    VIZIO is a decent real world way for the masses to watch HD,
    no matter what the price. At a time when I couldnt afford better
    they got me by.
    UNFORNUNATELY that day is passing, they built up their market share, and the window for a great bargain is closing.
    WILL probably happen with Emotiva someday, haven't seen
    their 125wpc amp on sale for 250 bucks in a long time.
    Such is the way of the world.
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  4. #29
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis View Post
    SAY anything about VIZIO and you get a speech from Talky
    about how you're a HT sinner iffen you don't have a zillion
    dollar science project made up of antique CRTS and scalers
    that "the boys from work" cobbled up for you.
    VIZIO is a decent real world way for the masses to watch HD,
    no matter what the price. At a time when I couldnt afford better
    they got me by.
    UNFORNUNATELY that day is passing, they built up their market share, and the window for a great bargain is closing.
    WILL probably happen with Emotiva someday, haven't seen
    their 125wpc amp on sale for 250 bucks in a long time.
    Such is the way of the world.
    Pix, I don't think you are a sinner. I think you are cheap as hell. There is a difference. I guess you feel that because you owned a Vizio, it is a quality television set. Hold on to that thought if it makes you feel better, but the reality is, it is a(notso) cheap low performing set in the real world.
    Sir Terrence

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  5. #30
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Welp...

    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks View Post
    Lol, my otherworldly friend, you didn't think that this thread would actually stay on message did you?
    One can ALWAYS hope can't one? I guess i'm an idjit, ever since I got into my first flame war ump-teen years ago I've tried to never say anything online I wouldn't say to a person's face. I'm just funny that way. I disagree with plenty of folks, even some on here. However unless it's a personal attack there's no reason for me respond in-kind and even then, it usually isn't worth it. And, silly me, I wish I could get all my friends on here to "civilly" disagree but I guess it ain't gonna happen. Still hope is better than dope!!!

    Da (Don't Call me Ghandi) Worfster
    Last edited by Worf101; 06-14-2011 at 06:13 AM. Reason: Spelling

  6. #31
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    I disagree.

    (Does that help?)
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  7. #32
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    I am no more a snob on video than the audio guys are on audio. Whether you are strongly into home theater or audio, or both, you want the best performance you can get for the dollar. Most audio guys believe a receiver will never be good enough as a pre-pro for a high end system. I would say the same for a Vizio television in the world of video. Vizio's are good for casual applications, like a second set in a bedroom. However, nobody in their right mind would recommend one for their primary viewing area, if performance is a big factor.

    When you have owned, or own a Sony, Samsung, or Panasonic set, Vizio cannot sit in the same room. The mid price sets from these companies outperform the high end Vizio sets. In many cases their lower tier sets do as well. Considering Vizio recent price hikes, it is no longer a real value when based on price versus performance factors.

    As I have said before, whomever has purchased a Vizio set, enjoy it. But just keep it real what you have purchased. Vizio is not made for prime time, or prime space in a home theater where performance is major factor.
    Terrence...I said that as a joke with understanding that you knew I was/am a audio snob. I suspect you do know it.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  8. #33
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    The same cannot be said for a Vizio Television.
    LoL.....
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  9. #34
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    You cannot get the best out of the media unless you have a display that can accurately render it. A Vizio set does not do that, at any price range.
    Dis-agree here Terence....im looking at one as I type this and it pretty accurate.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  10. #35
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101 View Post
    All I'm saying is that Visio's ain't such a bargain anymore.... Not that it has poor this or excellent that, just that its no longer cheap.... IN PRICE.

    Worf
    Well, I didn't break the bank buying it.....nor was it the cheapest in the store price wise....but it sure is pretty to look at! And... I got my three year warranty just in case tho.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  11. #36
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean_martin View Post
    I'm pretty sure Vizio is the "official" tv of the NFL even though I doubt many NFL players own a Vizio. (That may change with the lock-out.) Anyhow, it probably cost some bucks to get into that position with the NFL. Wonder what happens with their contract with the league if there's no football this year?

    Similarly, every time I see an add or promo during an NBA game saying that Hyundai is the official automaker of the NBA, I say OK, show me one NBA player driving a Hyundai. I'm sure we'll see Kobe Bryant on MTV Cribs taking us into his garage and showing us his Sonata with 22in rims. I'm sure someone caught a glimpse of Commissioner Stern leaving a Finals game in his Elantra.

    (Nothing against those two manufacturers. Both have been around long enough to put out quality products. I just find the relationships amusing.)
    And what car was Tiger Woods driving when his wife clubbed him upside the head with that golf Club when she found out about all his whores and then he wrecked the SUV???? Sure did not look like a Buick.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  12. #37
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Pix, I don't think you are a sinner. I think you are cheap as hell. There is a difference. I guess you feel that because you owned a Vizio, it is a quality television set. Hold on to that thought if it makes you feel better, but the reality is, it is a(notso) cheap low performing set in the real world.

    He Terrence ...I own a Vizio...so take this
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  13. #38
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    He Terrence ...I own a Vizio...so take this
    congrats.
    AND THAT great picture? THATS JUST AN ILLUSION.
    If Talky sez that it doesn't exist...it must not! Your eyes deceive
    you!
    YOU NEED to run not walk to the nearest SALVATION ARMY
    or other thrift store, buy a CRT RPTV so dim you cant see it
    except in the woods during lunar eclipses. Or custom build a
    front projector with special ordered parts from EDMUNDS
    scientific(out of business? TOUGH).
    or you could buy a plasma, or donate plasma, whatever.
    Anyway...enjoy.
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  14. #39
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    Dis-agree here Terence....im looking at one as I type this and it pretty accurate.
    Sorry Frenchmon, but your eyes are very poor measuring devices, and opinions are just what they are. When measured with actual measuring devices, almost all Vizio models exhibit mediocre color accuracy, mediocre dynamic contrast, mediocre to poor black levels, and generally poor shadow detail.

    I can say(in a vacuum) that the Delos Dolby Digital version of the 1812 Overture sounds great. However, when I compared that Dolby Digital version to the DTS High Resolution Master Audio version, that is when I realize how much the compression of Dolby Digital is effecting the quality of the audio. The same can be said for any Vizio. They look good standing all by themselves, but when put up to a Samsung, Sony of Panasonic, that is when you see how truly mediocre their performance is. Now that they are no longer a bargain, why bother with a second(bordering on third) tier set, when you can purchase the middle of the line model from the first tier manufacturers that will outperform it.

    No offense Frenchmon, but a little reality is in order here. Budweiser will never be Dom Pérignon.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
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    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
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    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
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    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
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  15. #40
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    He Terrence ...I own a Vizio...so take this
    ahhhhhh frenchmon, thanks for the love man
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis View Post
    AS FOR vizio, several million satisfied customers disagree with you.
    There are also several million Bose Lifestyle owners.....but they still own low quality gear...just sayin.

  17. #42
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    Hi all, need some receiver advice for paradigm speakers

  18. #43
    Forum Regular
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    can anyone help me out?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich66 View Post
    Hi all, need some receiver advice for paradigm speakers
    Rich, why don't you post a new thread in the appropriate location and give us enough info to actually answer your question.

    Otherwise, the answer is Just Buy One.

  20. #45
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    Ok thanks Hyfi sorry for the inconvenience

  21. #46
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101 View Post
    Once it got "decent' reviews and semi-respectable, has jacked up it's prices to where they're HIGHER than some top tier brands. I was looking for a small LCD 27 to 30 inches for a friends bedroom and the Vizio priced for 1080P at those prices is outrageous.

    My how the worm has turned.

    Worf
    Well, back on topic here, the issue with Vizio is that they need to maintain a price advantage in order to sustain sales. If the prices are equal, Vizio would not be the first choice with most consumers. Since they rely totally on outsource manufacturers and don't do any of their own R&D, they maintain less control over the margins than first tier manufacturers that make their own sets and/or do their own R&D.

    With prices and margins falling through the floor, Vizio no longer has as big a price advantage as they did when HDTVs cost more than $2,000. That why they retooled their strategy a couple of years ago by moving more into the midlevel territory, where the margins and price points have not been squeezed as hard.

    Your experience has less to do with Vizio charging more than it does the price points dropping with the first tier manufacturers to a point where Vizio no longer has a price advantage with the entry level sets. Right now, entry level HDTVs barely cost more than the bill of goods for the parts.

    That's why Vizio has moved over to the midlevel HDTV and accessories markets, where margins are still high enough that they have some room to undercut the prices.
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  22. #47
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post
    Well, back on topic here, the issue with Vizio is that they need to maintain a price advantage in order to sustain sales. If the prices are equal, Vizio would not be the first choice with most consumers. Since they rely totally on outsource manufacturers and don't do any of their own R&D, they maintain less control over the margins than first tier manufacturers that make their own sets and/or do their own R&D.

    With prices and margins falling through the floor, Vizio no longer has as big a price advantage as they did when HDTVs cost more than $2,000. That why they retooled their strategy a couple of years ago by moving more into the midlevel territory, where the margins and price points have not been squeezed as hard.

    Your experience has less to do with Vizio charging more than it does the price points dropping with the first tier manufacturers to a point where Vizio no longer has a price advantage with the entry level sets. Right now, entry level HDTVs barely cost more than the bill of goods for the parts.

    That's why Vizio has moved over to the midlevel HDTV and accessories markets, where margins are still high enough that they have some room to undercut the prices.
    You can stop with all of the outsourcing nonsense...
    NOBODY CARES, as long as the set works(they do) and the price is reasonable(it is).
    Thats where a lot of these Vizio haters come from, they just can't stand the way Vizio operates. WELL, TOUGH.
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    sub asw2500
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    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
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  23. #48
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Sorry Frenchmon, but your eyes are very poor measuring devices, and opinions are just what they are. When measured with actual measuring devices, almost all Vizio models exhibit mediocre color accuracy, mediocre dynamic contrast, mediocre to poor black levels, and generally poor shadow detail.

    I can say(in a vacuum) that the Delos Dolby Digital version of the 1812 Overture sounds great. However, when I compared that Dolby Digital version to the DTS High Resolution Master Audio version, that is when I realize how much the compression of Dolby Digital is effecting the quality of the audio. The same can be said for any Vizio. They look good standing all by themselves, but when put up to a Samsung, Sony of Panasonic, that is when you see how truly mediocre their performance is. Now that they are no longer a bargain, why bother with a second(bordering on third) tier set, when you can purchase the middle of the line model from the first tier manufacturers that will outperform it.

    No offense Frenchmon, but a little reality is in order here. Budweiser will never be Dom Pérignon.
    never mind that a lot are buying Vizios that are sitting next
    to Sonys, PANASONICS, etc etc etc..
    And of course human senses are fallible, but this is the excuse of
    one who has lost his argument. Nobody is going to run
    a new set through a battery of tests to measure stuff they cant
    even discern, why should they?
    HERES a little secret, the "differences" that TALKY and other
    slanderers talk about are slight, and unless the difference is
    huge..it won't make any difference to buyers!.
    WHY pay several hundred dollars more for a slight black level
    improvement that you can not even discern? ESPECIALLY
    when gas is over four bucks a gallon(although TALKY produces gas in plentiful quantities).
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  24. #49
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis View Post
    never mind that a lot are buying Vizios that are sitting next
    to Sonys, PANASONICS, etc etc etc..
    And of course human senses are fallible, but this is the excuse of
    one who has lost his argument. Nobody is going to run
    a new set through a battery of tests to measure stuff they cant
    even discern, why should they?
    HERES a little secret, the "differences" that TALKY and other
    slanderers talk about are slight, and unless the difference is
    huge..it won't make any difference to buyers!.
    WHY pay several hundred dollars more for a slight black level
    improvement that you can not even discern? ESPECIALLY
    when gas is over four bucks a gallon(although TALKY produces gas in plentiful quantities).
    The differences I talk about may be slight to you because you are half blind, and don't know what to look for.

    As it has already been stated, millions of people buying a mediocre product does not make the product good. It just means millions of folks looked at price instead of actual performance.

    One mans floor is another ceiling. Obviously my floor is your ceiling.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  25. #50
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis View Post
    You can stop with all of the outsourcing nonsense...
    How's it nonsense if it's TRUE? Are you saying that Vizio makes their own TVs (they don't) or that that they handle their own customer service (they don't) or that they do their own R&D (they don't)?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    NOBODY CARES, as long as the set works(they do) and the price is reasonable(it is).
    It matters in that Vizio cannot maintain their pricing advantage once the margins get as razor thin as they currently are. That's why they're moving to the midmarket, because they can no longer trump Samsung, LG, Sony, or Panasonic's entry level models on price.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Thats where a lot of these Vizio haters come from, they just can't stand the way Vizio operates. WELL, TOUGH.
    How is it "hating" by pointing out the reality of their business plan? Fanboys like you just keep attacking the messenger without addressing anything (or even reading the whole post for that matter).
    Wooch's Home Theater 2.0 (Pics)
    Panasonic VIERA TH-C50FD18 50" 1080p
    Paradigm Reference Studio 40, CC, and 20 v.2
    Adire Audio Rava (EQ: Behringer Feedback Destroyer DSP1124)
    Yamaha RX-A1030
    Dual CS5000 (Ortofon OM30 Super)
    Sony UBP-X800
    Sony Playstation 3 (MediaLink OS X Server)
    Sony ES SCD-C2000ES
    JVC HR-S3912U
    Directv HR44 and WVB
    Logitech Harmony 700
    iPhone 5s/iPad 3
    Linksys WES610



    The Neverending DVD/BD Collection

    Subwoofer Setup and Parametric EQ Results *Dead Link*

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