Ain't it Funny How Vizio.....

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Originally Posted by bobsticks

By "not doing it well" I mean not getting the best results possible or even results that are comprehensibly equal to what others have accomplished by using the same methods.

That's what I mean by "not doing it well".

That, and the fact that now they're not doing it well at a not-so-competitive price.

Your evidence is anecdotal and that's fine. But because the practice involves multiple suppliers with inconsistent quality control (a la Apex DVD Players) the utlility you have received from the product may not likely translate in the experiences of others.

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AND YOU have what to support this?
No offense, but you really don't know what you're talking about.
THE PROPAGANDA ABOUT "INCONSISTENT"
quality is just that...propaganda. Industries have had exacting
standards that bear comparison, like the I.S.O program.
Problem is that those slamming VIZIO think that reading a bunch of stats makes them some kind of "expert"...and naive types
such as yourself buy into it.
UNLIKE some on this board , I actually worked in a factory,
a factory which actually met ISO standards.
HOW much did they mean? THE man in charge of ISO compliance actually had veto power over the plant manager.
THROUGH ISO and other programs you can get an excellent
idea of the quality of the organization you are dealing with.
DO YOU actually think that a company like VIZIO buys
parts in some back alley? COMPANIES have to meet serious
standards , otherwise international trade itself would break down
MOST COMPANIES have strict QC standards, and there is several ways to judge this, the most important being the quality of
the products they turn out.
SO YOU AND OTHERS make the nebulous charge that VIZIO
uses substandard parts, well, where are your facts?
YOU KNOW the best standard of quality for a product?
THE TESTIMONIALS OF THE customers.
DOES VIZIO have any class action suits? MAYBE.
Panasonic does. TOSHIBA once put out a DVD player so
bad that there was a class action suit by the purchasers for damages.SO why don't these companies get slammed for their
lack of QC?
VIZIO purchasers love their sets. SO WHERE is your proof that
their product is shoddy? MY mother has a six year old set in her living room, 37", and a 42" in the den. MY brother has several,
in his bedroom and his daughters bedroom. AND WHAT about
all of the other sales that made VIZIO number one?
WHERE IS THE GROUNDSWELL of dissatisfied customers
that want their money back? I HAVE looked at the innards of
a Vizio, it looks pretty good, well put together.
ALL OF THIS talk about a lack of "quality" for a set that has
great sales records is really just a case of having nothing else
to mudsling in their faces.
Don't like the way VIZIO makes their products? Then don't be a hypocrite, go through your house and throw out everything built the same way, which will be most everything.
BACK in the VCR days I worked at a tape plant.
FUGI, Polaroid, RCA, jvc, and more brands of tape came off of the
same line, SONY and others contract out for lesser products like boomboxes, etc.
To say that VIZIO or any other company makes "bad" products
just because you don't like them is childish and unfair.
WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS that VIZIO or any other company
that uses outsourcing produces shoddy merchandise?:1:

We got a Vizio 19" LED for my father in law's room in the Nursing Home. Within 2 weeks the screen developed a green line from top to bottom about 3 inches from the left side.

Piece of crap is going back!

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

stuff

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Pix, you really are a buffoon sometimes.

Everytime we have one of these Vizio dustups your perspective is always the same: Vizio makes great products, they're as good as anyone else's, your experiences have been satisfactory and above, and anyone who points out data to the contrary is an industry shill and a propagandist.

Anyone who reads my posts for comprehension understands that I have said before and will continue to say that Vizio has made a decent though inconsistent second tier set. That is not to be confused with SOTA or without fault. You repeatedly assert that anyone who spends more on a set due to what you view as dubious numbers regarding defects/returns or quality is a fool, naive, or an industry hack.

How is your anecdotal evidence any more impactful that HyFi's or any of the scores of negative reviews that can be found with a simple Google search---much less the actual industry numbers that indicate that Vizio has up to a 3% higher return rate than Sony or Samsung? It's a sad day indeed when the Pixel family are the arbiters of accomplishment in modern technology.

Do you really think that 107 year old MammyPix who views anything more complex than a gypsy puppet show in black and white has a dog in the fight over quality? Can she even perceive black level or motion blur? And, the Pixelettes watching Buffy from their section of the custom double-wide...really? Really?

That you were a rent-a-cop in a factory back in the days of magnetic media is meaningless in this discussion. It doesn't make you knowledgeable on modern quality control, it makes you an expert on donuts and I'll glady defer to your expertise in those matters.

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Originally Posted by bobsticks

Pix, you really are a buffoon sometimes.

Everytime we have one of these Vizio dustups your perspective is always the same: Vizio makes great products, they're as good as anyone else's, your experiences have been satisfactory and above, and anyone who points out data to the contrary is an industry shill and a propagandist.

Anyone who reads my posts for comprehension understands that I have said before and will continue to say that Vizio has made a decent though inconsistent second tier set. That is not to be confused with SOTA or without fault. You repeatedly assert that anyone who spends more on a set due to what you view as dubious numbers regarding defects/returns or quality is a fool, naive, or an industry hack.

How is your anecdotal evidence any more impactful that HyFi's or any of the scores of negative reviews that can be found with a simple Google search---much less the actual industry numbers that indicate that Vizio has up to a 3% higher return rate than Sony or Samsung? It's a sad day indeed when the Pixel family are the arbiters of accomplishment in modern technology.

Do you really think that 107 year old MammyPix who views anything more complex than a gypsy puppet show in black and white has a dog in the fight over quality? Can she even perceive black level or motion blur? And, the Pixelettes watching Buffy from their section of the custom double-wide...really? Really?

That you were a rent-a-cop in a factory back in the days of magnetic media is meaningless in this discussion. It doesn't make you knowledgeable on modern quality control, it makes you an expert on donuts and I'll glady defer to your expertise in those matters.

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Well said wise one. As I have said many times to Pix, one man's floor is another ceiling. When you trumpet the idea that a Vizio television is a performance based set, then sadly your bar of performance is much lower than many of us out there.

If you totally enjoy the Vizio set your have purchased, more power to you. At this point, there are better sets for the price out there if you just look for them.

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

Industries have had exacting standards that bear comparison, like the I.S.O program.

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And if they actually comply to whichever ISO 90xx designated for TV MFGs, they would have a 99.9% quality controlled product. They do not.

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

UNLIKE some on this board , I actually worked in a factory,
a factory which actually met ISO standards.

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I have also, and being able to comply with the standards is close to impossible, but not impossible. Companies fudge the paperwork every day to APPEAR to be in compliance. Your reference to you working someplace that did comply in no way means that VIZIO does so it is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

DO YOU actually think that a company like VIZIO buys parts in some back alley? COMPANIES have to meet serious
standards , otherwise international trade itself would break down
MOST COMPANIES have strict QC standards, and there is several ways to judge this, the most important being the quality of
the products they turn out.
SO YOU AND OTHERS make the nebulous charge that VIZIO
uses substandard parts, well, where are your facts?

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What has been stated over and over is that although the parts are not, or may not be, sub-standard, they were not all designed to actually work flawlessly together. That does not mean that the item won't work, it is just not optimum for performance and overall quality.

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

VIZIO purchasers love their sets. SO WHERE is your proof that
their product is shoddy? MY mother has a six year old set in her living room, 37", and a 42" in the den. MY brother has several,
in his bedroom and his daughters bedroom. AND WHAT about
all of the other sales that made VIZIO number one?

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There are always good apples and bad apples. The sets may last but still don't compete with any Sony TV of same size and supposed specs. Most people are more happy that they got a CHEAP TV, and not the best one.

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

WHERE IS THE GROUNDSWELL of dissatisfied customers
that want their money back? I HAVE looked at the innards of
a Vizio, it looks pretty good, well put together.
ALL OF THIS talk about a lack of "quality" for a set that has
great sales records is really just a case of having nothing else
to mudsling in their faces.

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I may not be a Groundswell, but the set I purchased didn't last 2 weeks. This puts their ISO Standard about 5 TVs from being out of compliance.

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

Don't like the way VIZIO makes their products? Then don't be a hypocrite, go through your house and throw out everything built the same way, which will be most everything.
BACK in the VCR days I worked at a tape plant.
FUGI, Polaroid, RCA, jvc, and more brands of tape came off of the
same line, SONY and others contract out for lesser products like boomboxes, etc.
To say that VIZIO or any other company makes "bad" products
just because you don't like them is childish and unfair.
WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS that VIZIO or any other company
that uses outsourcing produces shoddy merchandise?:1:

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Again and again, the point you keep missing is that anyone can spec out dis-jointed components, put them together with whatever quality you want, but the bottom line is that they were not designed from the start to work flawlessly with each other to create the best performance possible.

Will the set turn on and display a picture? Yes
Will many of them last many years? Yes
Are many people happy that they were able to purchase a large TV for less than a Sony? Yes, and they may very well be using a Bose Lifestyle along with it.

Does the fact that the set was cheap and displays a picture mean it was all spec'ed, designed, built so that it is perfect and a top performing unit? No friggin way!


And here is my favorite quote but it needs to be rewritten-

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

millions of people don't buy tomatoes, bacon, etc for any number of reasons.
I CAN GUARENTEE that of all of the people shopping for a new panel...none were considering outsourcing practices, etc,
when looking at one, any more than they care about where
stuff is made, etc. THEY JUST WANT GOOD as cheap as possible

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I think you meant...
They want CHEAP as good as possible.

Another thing you keep missing, and wrongly arguing about, is that almost all MFGs use outsourcing. The issue here is that the claim is some MFGs just pick already made components from an outsource, and put them together in such a way that the unit works.

Other MFGs, design all the components to work flawlessly with each other, THEN have them each made by an outsourced sub-MFG.

Do you understand that yet? From your repeated position, I am guessing not. I worked in Manufacturing for 25 years so your not gonna pull any wool over my eyes.

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Originally Posted by bobsticks

Pix, you really are a buffoon sometimes.

Everytime we have one of these Vizio dustups your perspective is always the same: Vizio makes great products, they're as good as anyone else's, your experiences have been satisfactory and above, and anyone who points out data to the contrary is an industry shill and a propagandist.

Anyone who reads my posts for comprehension understands that I have said before and will continue to say that Vizio has made a decent though inconsistent second tier set. That is not to be confused with SOTA or without fault. You repeatedly assert that anyone who spends more on a set due to what you view as dubious numbers regarding defects/returns or quality is a fool, naive, or an industry hack.

How is your anecdotal evidence any more impactful that HyFi's or any of the scores of negative reviews that can be found with a simple Google search---much less the actual industry numbers that indicate that Vizio has up to a 3% higher return rate than Sony or Samsung? It's a sad day indeed when the Pixel family are the arbiters of accomplishment in modern technology.

Do you really think that 107 year old MammyPix who views anything more complex than a gypsy puppet show in black and white has a dog in the fight over quality? Can she even perceive black level or motion blur? And, the Pixelettes watching Buffy from their section of the custom double-wide...really? Really?

That you were a rent-a-cop in a factory back in the days of magnetic media is meaningless in this discussion. It doesn't make you knowledgeable on modern quality control, it makes you an expert on donuts and I'll glady defer to your expertise in those matters.

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most of what you say is meaningless for this "discussion" including insults of my mom, who at eighty still drives and
works 40 hrs a week.
BUT I am glad we agree on one thing, VIZIO is great as a second tier set, which is what I HAVE ALWAYS SAID.
For friends looking for something a little more caviar , I ALWAYS RECOMMEND Sony or lG, SAMSUNG is great, but have seen
failures.
FOR A CHEAP AND EASY "large screen" any DLP , either front
proj or RPTV is called for, although risky.
BUT IF you want a decent set at a reasonable price VIZIO is it,
or rather was.
If they go "upscale" they will either have to run with the big dogs
or stay on the porch, selling good for a cheap price is something
that has worked for them, but if they jack prices they will have to sell excellent, and that remains to be seen if they can do that
something else.
As for "working as a rent a cop in a factory" one factory where
I worked was as an employee, where I was dealing with QC on a daily basis. AND even though my electronics training is a bit stale, its probably better than yours, whatever that is.:1:

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

BUT I am glad we agree on one thing, VIZIO is great as a second tier set, which is what I HAVE ALWAYS SAID.

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Well, which is it? Implicit in the concept that it's a good choice as a second tier set is that there are characteristics or defects that prevent it from being a first tier set.

As for the rest of it, if you don't want it personal then don't make it personal.

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Originally Posted by bobsticks

Well, which is it? Implicit in the concept that it's a good choice as a second tier set is that there are characteristics or defects that prevent it from being a first tier set.

As for the rest of it, if you don't want it personal then don't make it personal.

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Just don't talk about my mama.
AS FOR VIZIO being a "second tier" set, that aint too bad.
THERE IS ALWAYS going to be a market for a set that does well
but not outstanding, for people who can live with 95% and
save a few bucks living without the slight percent towards
perfection, that is scarcely noticeable.
ITS all common sense, really. THERE are sets like SAMSUNG, SONY, MITSHIBUSHI, LG, etc that strive for perfection, and sets
like VIZIO and a few others that provide a decent product for joe
six, guys that like a decent set but are a bit strapped.
THE THING I have always liked about Vizio is that they are a
cut above the "WESTINGHOUSES, phillips, etc of the world
for about the same amount of money.
DO THEY give you a top level pic? Of course not. BUT THEY
do give a decent pic on a reliable set for a decent price, and certainly don't deserve to be slammed because they don't measure up to a five grand panel. THATS rediculous, which is all I AM SAYING.:1: