The NEW Adire Rava MKII subwoofer ...

[Woochifer]

After months of speculation, Adire has finally updated their website with all of the specs on their new products. As part of their complete product line revamp, they have introduced a brand new Mark II version of their well regarded Rava subwoofer. In going over what they posted on their website, the new model is a huge change from before.

The box remains the same, but the driver is now a 12" XBL^2 motor design and the amp is a 300W Class D design. The amp in particular now also comes with two parametric EQ channels, which IMO is a huge benefit to any setup.

The old Rava had a frequency response down to 27 Hz (in my room, it goes down to 25 Hz, with -3 db at 22 Hz and -7 db at 20 Hz), while the Rava II has a frequency response spec going down to 20 Hz. If this is a true spec, then we're talking about a monster a sub here. The polite reputation of the Rava might make for quite a rude awakening with this kind of extension!

Of course, with all of this good news, there has to be some bad right? Unfortunately, the bad news comes in the form of the price that Adire posted. Sit down because this ain't pretty ...

Adire's list price on the Rava II is $800! Yup, we're talking about a 100% price increase! I'm about to post onto Adire's forum to confirm this information, but that's a most unfortunate development if indeed true.

If the specs on the new Rava pan out, this looks like it will stand out just as distinctly as the original Rava did when it came out. When the original Rava came out, there were no other 12" sealed subs that I could find for under $800. Since then, a multitude of new sealed subs have been introduced, with similar specs to the Rava and priced around the $500 price point. The Rava II on paper looks like it will handily outperform those models, but unfortunately it will also carry a higher price tag. At $800, the Rava II is still a unique product in that it's a 12" sealed sub that specs down to 20 Hz. But, in this price range, the competition's also more formidable.

All in all, the Rava II looks like a winner, but with its gaudier price tag, it has moved into a different neighborhood and left its roots behind.

http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/Rava.htm

[drseid]

After months of speculation, Adire has finally updated their website with all of the specs on their new products. As part of their complete product line revamp, they have introduced a brand new Mark II version of their well regarded Rava subwoofer. In going over what they posted on their website, the new model is a huge change from before.

The box remains the same, but the driver is now a 12" XBL^2 motor design and the amp is a 300W Class D design. The amp in particular now also comes with two parametric EQ channels, which IMO is a huge benefit to any setup.

The old Rava had a frequency response down to 27 Hz (in my room, it goes down to 25 Hz, with -3 db at 22 Hz and -7 db at 20 Hz), while the Rava II has a frequency response spec going down to 20 Hz. If this is a true spec, then we're talking about a monster a sub here. The polite reputation of the Rava might make for quite a rude awakening with this kind of extension!

Of course, with all of this good news, there has to be some bad right? Unfortunately, the bad news comes in the form of the price that Adire posted. Sit down because this ain't pretty ...

Adire's list price on the Rava II is $800! Yup, we're talking about a 100% price increase! I'm about to post onto Adire's forum to confirm this information, but that's a most unfortunate development if indeed true.

If the specs on the new Rava pan out, this looks like it will stand out just as distinctly as the original Rava did when it came out. When the original Rava came out, there were no other 12" sealed subs that I could find for under $800. Since then, a multitude of new sealed subs have been introduced, with similar specs to the Rava and priced around the $500 price point. The Rava II on paper looks like it will handily outperform those models, but unfortunately it will also carry a higher price tag. At $800, the Rava II is still a unique product in that it's a 12" sealed sub that specs down to 20 Hz. But, in this price range, the competition's also more formidable.

All in all, the Rava II looks like a winner, but with its gaudier price tag, it has moved into a different neighborhood and left its roots behind.

http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/Rava.htm

That is really too bad... The Rava was one of those rare value finds that allowed a lot of audio enthusiasts on a tight budget (or ones that could spend more but said "why?") to get a real taste of what the much higher priced subs sounded like (without spending all those bucks).

While the specs look impressive, at $800 brands like ACI, Hsu and SVS are going to definitely merit consideration. Adire may have made a miscalculation here as to what their consumers really were looking for... I guess time will tell.

---Dave

[bikeman]

Thanks for the link. That's impressive for the size. I'm using two filters with my current set-up so two is the right number for me. Being a sealed sub will set it apart from the SVS and Hsu offerings. AV123 has a 12" sealed sub coming out shortly but at a higher price point.

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...rs&product=8.1

That should be a fun comparison. It's a great time to be in the market.

David

[kexodusc]

The DIY community is abuzz about this...most are a little miffed at the new price but that's to be expected. We're hearing that Dayton is also getting ready to release another line of newer woofers, my quess is the DVC line which was basically a rebadged Adire woofer. NHT and several others are working on new woofers as well.

I think this represents a good switch for Adire. They couldn't have been making much profit of the old Rava. Best to pick a niche market and excel at it I think than to try to be everything to everyone...they don't have the size or complemintary products to sustain that effort in an already saturated market. Yet.

The new 12" driver is supposedly double the price or more than the previous, some say as high as $400 or so, which is quite remarkable if true. The dual Parametric EQ is probably sufficient for most people and the slightly better amp altogether represents another $100 in value I would say (subjectively)...Clearly the Rava is aimed at a different market where less competition currently exits.
I suspect they will win back many old Rava customers looking to upgrade, as well as people looking at higher performance subs at affordable prices.

One thing that interests me is the Q alignment...Adire's new subs all seem to have relatively higher Vas and necessitate huge cabinets...18" cubed makes for big 12" subwoofer me thinks. My 15" Dayton woofer is in a 3.5 cubic ft sealed cabinet, about 21" squared, and it dominates my 20 X 24 room when you sit on the couch and your field of vision is forward.
The Rava is 2.6 litres Vb and a Q alignment of 0.6. This thing is gonna suck up the power, at the low frequencies which is probably why the bigger amp is used.
Haven't seen specs for efficiency yet, but it's probably the same or better. I just hope Adire hasn't increased the xmax of the drivers, but I fear with these parameters that xmax might have been the one area of compromise...lots of drivers seem to be falling victim to the "horsepower race" subs have witnessed recently.
I think this is gonna be one great subwoofer though.

I'd love to get my hands on one of them Tumult gems...sigh.

[IRG]

The DIY community is abuzz about this...most are a little miffed at the new price but that's to be expected. We're hearing that Dayton is also getting ready to release another line of newer woofers, my quess is the DVC line which was basically a rebadged Adire woofer. NHT and several others are working on new woofers as well.

I think this represents a good switch for Adire. They couldn't have been making much profit of the old Rava. Best to pick a niche market and excel at it I think than to try to be everything to everyone...they don't have the size or complemintary products to sustain that effort in an already saturated market. Yet.

The new 12" driver is supposedly double the price or more than the previous, some say as high as $400 or so, which is quite remarkable if true. The dual Parametric EQ is probably sufficient for most people and the slightly better amp altogether represents another $100 in value I would say (subjectively)...Clearly the Rava is aimed at a different market where less competition currently exits.
I suspect they will win back many old Rava customers looking to upgrade, as well as people looking at higher performance subs at affordable prices.

One thing that interests me is the Q alignment...Adire's new subs all seem to have relatively higher Vas and necessitate huge cabinets...18" cubed makes for big 12" subwoofer me thinks. My 15" Dayton woofer is in a 3.5 cubic ft sealed cabinet, about 21" squared, and it dominates my 20 X 24 room when you sit on the couch and your field of vision is forward.
The Rava is 2.6 litres Vb and a Q alignment of 0.6. This thing is gonna suck up the power, at the low frequencies which is probably why the bigger amp is used.
Haven't seen specs for efficiency yet, but it's probably the same or better. I just hope Adire hasn't increased the xmax of the drivers, but I fear with these parameters that xmax might have been the one area of compromise...lots of drivers seem to be falling victim to the "horsepower race" subs have witnessed recently.
I think this is gonna be one great subwoofer though.

I'd love to get my hands on one of them Tumult gems...sigh.

Kexo,
You might be right in that Adire was not making much profit with their previous version - although they are still around, so I think they were doing OK. Seems hard to imagine that they would spend $400 on a single driver and put it in a $800 sub. If so, they still won't be making much profit, after you factor in the amp, cabinet, labor etc.

I think they are making a mistake though, and here is why. Visually, this is the same sub, for now twice the price. Sure, it is better and the stuff inside may be worth twice the price. But I think they should have kept the Rava sub at $400 as is, make minor changes perhaps, and charge $425-500. Then take this Rava II sub, and give it a better looking cabinet (one does wonder if it needs to be bigger, but I will assume their engineers felt the current size was appropriate) and then charge the $800 or so for it. They need to have a good "entry" level sub around $400, as well as their $800 and up subs. This is exactly why SVS has come out with their $429 sub - so they offer a wider range of quality products, so that people like me will buy their sub $500 sub, love it, and in a few years upgrade to a $1k sub, etc. I would have bought the Adire at $400, but I am not going to at $800. For me, (and I have a smaller room) the difference in improvement is not worth twice the price. For others, I am sure it will be. It will be interesting to see what customers they win over, and which ones they will lose. My guess is they will lose more than they gain.

[kexodusc]

Kexo,
You might be right in that Adire was not making much profit with their previous version - although they are still around, so I think they were doing OK. Seems hard to imagine that they would spend $400 on a single driver and put it in a $800 sub. If so, they still won't be making much profit, after you factor in the amp, cabinet, labor etc.

I think they are making a mistake though, and here is why. Visually, this is the same sub, for now twice the price. Sure, it is better and the stuff inside may be worth twice the price. But I think they should have kept the Rava sub at $400 as is, make minor changes perhaps, and charge $425-500. Then take this Rava II sub, and give it a better looking cabinet (one does wonder if it needs to be bigger, but I will assume their engineers felt the current size was appropriate) and then charge the $800 or so for it. They need to have a good "entry" level sub around $400, as well as their $800 and up subs. This is exactly why SVS has come out with their $429 sub - so they offer a wider range of quality products, so that people like me will buy their sub $500 sub, love it, and in a few years upgrade to a $1k sub, etc. I would have bought the Adire at $400, but I am not going to at $800. For me, (and I have a smaller room) the difference in improvement is not worth twice the price. For others, I am sure it will be. It will be interesting to see what customers they win over, and which ones they will lose. My guess is they will lose more than they gain.

IRG -

Your points are quite valid...if you approach from the perspective that this subwoofer has "doubled in price". I don't think it's fair to say that. This is a completely brand new sub not carrying anything over from the original Rava, and hence hasn't doubled in price, not really.

I suspect the Woofer is a $200-$300 unit, the amp would be another $200, and the cabinets are less than $75 in materials and labour, finished. That's $575 tops in cost of materials I think assuming retail prices. That's up from $350 or so in the previous incarnation of the Rava...of course the costs to Adire are significantly lower, but you can see the trend here.
I suspect Adire just wanted to keep the "goodwill" and recognition that the name Rava has, rather than start a whole new name. Which makes sense

Given that Adire has introduced a completely new line fo 10, 12, and 15" Shiva drivers (what the old Rava used), I would suspect a "true replacement" to the original Rava to be coming shortly.
My guess is it'll be in the $450-$500 range, given the improvements in the driver.

IRG, if you really want a Rava, you can pretty much build one yourself quite easily. The Dayton DVC 12" woofer is extremely similar to the Shiva driver (basically rebadged), with a few minor differences. The jury is out as to which woofer is better, but most agree the differences are slim...same manufacturer, common materials, close specs. You could buy the woofer and plate amp for $250 plus shipping...then you'd just need a drill, some gasket tape, polyfill and a cabinet.
Not sure if you could build your own cabinet or not, but even having a local woodshop build one or getting Lowes to cut the exact sizes wouldn't cost $100...I think Lowes charges just a few dollars to cut a sheet of MDF to your sizes...you just glue/screw it together for under $60. That leaves $50 for finishing - buy a nice veneer, stain and bang - you have a pretty excellent sounding 12" sub.

Or, for less money buy the 15" Quatro woofer...it'll outperform both and is cheaper right now. The tradeoff is it's a even bigger in your room.

[IRG]

IRG -

Your points are quite valid...if you approach from the perspective that this subwoofer has "doubled in price". I don't think it's fair to say that. This is a completely brand new sub not carrying anything over from the original Rava, and hence hasn't doubled in price, not really.

I suspect the Woofer is a $200-$300 unit, the amp would be another $200, and the cabinets are less than $75 in materials and labour, finished. That's $575 tops in cost of materials I think assuming retail prices. That's up from $350 or so in the previous incarnation of the Rava...of course the costs to Adire are significantly lower, but you can see the trend here.
I suspect Adire just wanted to keep the "goodwill" and recognition that the name Rava has, rather than start a whole new name. Which makes sense

Given that Adire has introduced a completely new line fo 10, 12, and 15" Shiva drivers (what the old Rava used), I would suspect a "true replacement" to the original Rava to be coming shortly.
My guess is it'll be in the $450-$500 range, given the improvements in the driver.

IRG, if you really want a Rava, you can pretty much build one yourself quite easily. The Dayton DVC 12" woofer is extremely similar to the Shiva driver (basically rebadged), with a few minor differences. The jury is out as to which woofer is better, but most agree the differences are slim...same manufacturer, common materials, close specs. You could buy the woofer and plate amp for $250 plus shipping...then you'd just need a drill, some gasket tape, polyfill and a cabinet.
Not sure if you could build your own cabinet or not, but even having a local woodshop build one or getting Lowes to cut the exact sizes wouldn't cost $100...I think Lowes charges just a few dollars to cut a sheet of MDF to your sizes...you just glue/screw it together for under $60. That leaves $50 for finishing - buy a nice veneer, stain and bang - you have a pretty excellent sounding 12" sub.

Or, for less money buy the 15" Quatro woofer...it'll outperform both and is cheaper right now. The tradeoff is it's a even bigger in your room.

I have thought about the Parts Express sub kits (assuming these drivers are the same as what you are talking about). I could do their kits, but I don't think I want to attempt making the cabinet - not so handy or patient with this kind of thing. Maybe some day - I just have little time available for these type of projects, unfortunately. Baby #3 on the way!.

Anyway, I will respectfully disagree with you on some points. Maybe it is only semantics, but I see this sub as only half new. Yes, a new driver, and a larger amp/eq, but it is still the same cabinet, same dimensions, and same name. Plus I think we are only guessing on the prices, so who knows what it really costs. And I have no problem with them making more money - heck that is the whole point of having a business, but this sub which at least right now, is a direct replacement for the original Rava, is twice the price. I still say it should look a little different and have a different name, otherwise the direct comparison to the original is unavoidable. If your guess that a true replacement for the original Rava is coming in the $400-500 range is true, then that would be welcome news, and I hope and suspect that they will do this also. But by then, it may be too late for me, but considering how slow I am with this purchase, you never know.

[kexodusc]

That is really too bad... The Rava was one of those rare value finds that allowed a lot of audio enthusiasts on a tight budget (or ones that could spend more but said "why?") to get a real taste of what the much higher priced subs sounded like (without spending all those bucks).

While the specs look impressive, at $800 brands like ACI, Hsu and SVS are going to definitely merit consideration. Adire may have made a miscalculation here as to what their consumers really were looking for... I guess time will tell.

---Dave

Just a quick look at these 3 companies competitive offerings at the $1000 price point and I don't think Adire has much to worry about at all. SVS and HSU concentrate on vented subs, however the ACI Titanic would be a very close competitor. But it's downfiring design, and lack of dual parametric EQ are two immediate shortcomings (albeit the downfiring aspect shouldn't matter too much below 60Hz).
I think the Titanic looks gorgeous though and might be reason enough for higher price...the devil is in the details though, I'd like to see some output specs...right now I don't see $250 in value more in the Titanic.

[drseid]

Just a quick look at these 3 companies competitive offerings at the $1000 price point and I don't think Adire has much to worry about at all. SVS and HSU concentrate on vented subs, however the ACI Titanic would be a very close competitor. But it's downfiring design, and lack of dual parametric EQ are two immediate shortcomings (albeit the downfiring aspect shouldn't matter too much below 60Hz).
I think the Titanic looks gorgeous though and might be reason enough for higher price...the devil is in the details though, I'd like to see some output specs...right now I don't see $250 in value more in the Titanic.

If by "Titanic," you mean the ACI *Titan* than most likely it is indeed worth the extra $250 if music is your priority, IMO (I am also an owner... ;-)). Since I have not heard the new RAVA yet, I can't be 100% sure (although I have yet to find a sub under $2000 that I would take over it to date for music -- HT is another matter).

It does indeed look gorgeous, but it is its ability to integrate extremely well for music with just about any speaker (including difficult planers) that set it apart from most other subs anywhere near its price point. It uses two crossover knobs so that you can get the crossover fine tuned for a seamless match with the mains. I also like the fact that it has a very low crossover point at 35 HZ, so those with larger speakers can take advantage of their abilities a bit more if desired.

Actually, the ACI competitor to the new RAVA would be the Force, at $750.

As for the offerings from Hsu and SVS... I would not readily dismiss them due to their ported design... After all, at the end of the day if they sound better, it does not matter if they are ported or not. Most buyers will just look for the best sound... And if they can find better sound than the new RAVA for less money, then I think it may be a tough sell at the higher price point. Again, the sales will tell us the answer (and also it will depend on the discounts dealers sell them for) , right now it is pure speculation.

---Dave

[kexodusc]

If by "Titanic," you mean the ACI *Titan* than most likely it is indeed worth the extra $250 if music is your priority, IMO (I am also an owner... ;-)). Since I have not heard the new RAVA yet, I can't be 100% sure (although I have yet to find a sub under $2000 that I would take over it to date for music -- HT is another matter).

It does indeed look gorgeous, but it is its ability to integrate extremely well for music with just about any speaker (including difficult planers) that set it apart from most other subs anywhere near its price point. It uses two crossover knobs so that you can get the crossover fine tuned for a seamless match with the mains. I also like the fact that it has a very low crossover point at 35 HZ, so those with larger speakers can take advantage of their abilities a bit more if desired.

Actually, the ACI competitor to the new RAVA would be the Force, at $750.

As for the offerings from Hsu and SVS... I would not readily dismiss them due to their ported design... After all, at the end of the day if they sound better, it does not matter if they are ported or not. Most buyers will just look for the best sound... And if they can find better sound than the new RAVA for less money, then I think it may be a tough sell at the higher price point. Again, the sales will tell us the answer (and also it will depend on the discounts dealers sell them for) , right now it is pure speculation.

---Dave

Sorry you're absolutely right - Titan, not Titanic (that's 3 speakers I know of now with the name Titan - so much for creativity).

Not to dismiss the Hsu and SVS units (I've owned Hsu before), but there are simple technical truths about ported subs vs sealed designs. Much like a guitar cannot reach the same notes as a bass because of the physics associated with its size and design,, a ported sub is limited by its make-up in certain areas.
It's been know for years that all things equal, ported designs are a step behind sealed designs in terms of "musicality". This is the largest reason why you find your Titan so great for music reproduction.

The Rava is really in another league compared to the Force...not to knock the Force at all, but Rava's proper competitor would be the Titan, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Rava was a as good or a bit better. The XBL^2 motor technology is something else. 105 dB output at 20Hz from a 12 sub anechoic puts the Rava in exclusive company right now, unfortunately ACI doesn't publish such detailed specs but I'd love to see some if you know where I could find any. I've been wanting to hear ACI's products for awhile now.

I'd be curious to know who makes the woofer for ACI as it appears they don't make it themselves. (it could very well be based on Adire's technology).

[drseid]

Sorry you're absolutely right - Titan, not Titanic (that's 3 speakers I know of now with the name Titan - so much for creativity).

Not to dismiss the Hsu and SVS units (I've owned Hsu before), but there are simple technical truths about ported subs vs sealed designs. Much like a guitar cannot reach the same notes as a bass because of the physics associated with its size and design,, a ported sub is limited by its make-up in certain areas.
It's been know for years that all things equal, ported designs are a step behind sealed designs in terms of "musicality". This is the largest reason why you find your Titan so great for music reproduction.

The Rava is really in another league compared to the Force...not to knock the Force at all, but Rava's proper competitor would be the Titan, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Rava was a as good or a bit better. The XBL^2 motor technology is something else. 105 dB output at 20Hz from a 12 sub anechoic puts the Rava in exclusive company right now, unfortunately ACI doesn't publish such detailed specs but I'd love to see some if you know where I could find any. I've been wanting to hear ACI's products for awhile now.

I'd be curious to know who makes the woofer for ACI as it appears they don't make it themselves. (it could very well be based on Adire's technology).

Sorry Kex, I don't have specs on the Titan (or Titan II as it was called when I bought mine)... Soundwise, I do recommend you hear it (and the Force), because I think you may just have to eat your words. ;-)

As for the driver, it is theirs... they used to sell their drivers to the DIY market, but I believe they stopped a year or two ago. I remember that it was quite costly though (much more than the Shiva)... I think it is an ACI SV12 driver for what that is worth... There are a couple reviews on the driver on this site.

As for ported versus sealed... I would agree ceterus parabus as you said... The key though is "all things being equal." :-)

Regards,

---Dave

[IRG]

After months of speculation, Adire has finally updated their website with all of the specs on their new products. As part of their complete product line revamp, they have introduced a brand new Mark II version of their well regarded Rava subwoofer. In going over what they posted on their website, the new model is a huge change from before.

The box remains the same, but the driver is now a 12" XBL^2 motor design and the amp is a 300W Class D design. The amp in particular now also comes with two parametric EQ channels, which IMO is a huge benefit to any setup.

The old Rava had a frequency response down to 27 Hz (in my room, it goes down to 25 Hz, with -3 db at 22 Hz and -7 db at 20 Hz), while the Rava II has a frequency response spec going down to 20 Hz. If this is a true spec, then we're talking about a monster a sub here. The polite reputation of the Rava might make for quite a rude awakening with this kind of extension!

Of course, with all of this good news, there has to be some bad right? Unfortunately, the bad news comes in the form of the price that Adire posted. Sit down because this ain't pretty ...

Adire's list price on the Rava II is $800! Yup, we're talking about a 100% price increase! I'm about to post onto Adire's forum to confirm this information, but that's a most unfortunate development if indeed true.

If the specs on the new Rava pan out, this looks like it will stand out just as distinctly as the original Rava did when it came out. When the original Rava came out, there were no other 12" sealed subs that I could find for under $800. Since then, a multitude of new sealed subs have been introduced, with similar specs to the Rava and priced around the $500 price point. The Rava II on paper looks like it will handily outperform those models, but unfortunately it will also carry a higher price tag. At $800, the Rava II is still a unique product in that it's a 12" sealed sub that specs down to 20 Hz. But, in this price range, the competition's also more formidable.

All in all, the Rava II looks like a winner, but with its gaudier price tag, it has moved into a different neighborhood and left its roots behind.

http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/Rava.htm

Hey Wooch,
Thanks for the info, as you know I have (or make it had) been lusting after the Adire. And when I was ready to buy one, they stopped making it, and now we know why. It sounds like overall, it is an improvement over the older model, but the bad news for me, (the new price) far outweighs the good news. Before, there just weren't any really good subs at the $400 mark that could compete. Now, SVS http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb10_isd.htm has their new $429 sub that IMO, at least on paper is probably better than the older Adire, or at least its equal, although it won't quite equal what the new model is - however for half the price, this is the new price leader for the performance, by far. Weird that Adire would relinquish this title, but hey, if they can sell half the number of subs as before, at twice the price, they will make more money overall (less labor needed). Seems like SVS and Hsu are trying harder to make good subs at the $400-500 range, while Adire is going for the upper high end market. There are a lot of good $800 subs out there, and considering Adire has no middle man (or maybe they do now), this looks like a business mistake to me. Time will tell, but I know, SVS will be getting my money soon, and not Adire. Thanks for the update though. I couldn't agree more with your assesment.

[Woochifer]

Been poking around the Adire forum, and the higher MSRPs are apparently indicative of Adire's transition to a dealer-based distribution model. Some of the dealers have chimed in that the MSRP does not indicate the true "street price" of the new product lines. But, since the products aren't out yet, all that a consumer currently has to go on IS the MSRP. An $800 subwoofer is not how anyone currently pictures the Rava.

I posted my concerns on the Adire forum, and got flamed by a couple of the fanboys who insist that the prices are not a concern. Maybe not for them, but all I know is that if I was currently in the market for a subwoofer and my price point was still $500, the sticker shock of doubling the price on the Rava would probably prod me to drop Adire from consideration on principle alone. I just don't see the point of doubling the list price. If the new Rava has that much greater performance capability than the old version, and can justifiably lay claim to the midrange market, then it should probably wear a different name. Conversely, if the actual "street price" is a lot lower, then I also don't see the point of quoting a radically higher list price. Either way, it does not create good will with potential buyers.

A point that Kyle Richardson of Acoustic Vision brought up, which I think is very valid, is that people might not raise as much of a stink about the price if the new sub did not wear the Rava name. Kyle points out that the new version uses a higher performance driver and amp. If the specs are correct, then this new sub is not a Rava, but more like a midlevel sub.

I would also hope that the speculation about Adire coming out with a new entry level sub turns out to be true. But, on the other hand, Adire did at one point have the market to themselves with the Rava. Now, you got plenty of sealed subs selling for around $500. With thin margins and a much more crowded marketplace, Adire might be willing to vacate that part of the market altogether.

If indeed Adire leaves that price point behind, there are so many more sealed options now that the Rava's absence from the $400 price does not matter as much now as it would have a couple of years ago. Acoustic Visions' own MRS-10 sub uses a XBL^2-based driver and on paper at least, its performance is very close to the Rava's and it has a much smaller cabinet.

P.S. Kex, I couldn't have explained the parametric EQ any better myself!

[IRG]

Been poking around the Adire forum, and the higher MSRPs are apparently indicative of Adire's transition to a dealer-based distribution model. Some of the dealers have chimed in that the MSRP does not indicate the true "street price" of the new product lines. But, since the products aren't out yet, all that a consumer currently has to go on IS the MSRP. An $800 subwoofer is not how anyone currently pictures the Rava.

I posted my concerns on the Adire forum, and got flamed by a couple of the fanboys who insist that the prices are not a concern. Maybe not for them, but all I know is that if I was currently in the market for a subwoofer and my price point was still $500, the sticker shock of doubling the price on the Rava would probably prod me to drop Adire from consideration on principle alone. I just don't see the point of doubling the list price. If the new Rava has that much greater performance capability than the old version, and can justifiably lay claim to the midrange market, then it should probably wear a different name. Conversely, if the actual "street price" is a lot lower, then I also don't see the point of quoting a radically higher list price. Either way, it does not create good will with potential buyers.

A point that Kyle Richardson of Acoustic Vision brought up, which I think is very valid, is that people might not raise as much of a stink about the price if the new sub did not wear the Rava name. Kyle points out that the new version uses a higher performance driver and amp. If the specs are correct, then this new sub is not a Rava, but more like a midlevel sub.

I would also hope that the speculation about Adire coming out with a new entry level sub turns out to be true. But, on the other hand, Adire did at one point have the market to themselves with the Rava. Now, you got plenty of sealed subs selling for around $500. With thin margins and a much more crowded marketplace, Adire might be willing to vacate that part of the market altogether.

If indeed Adire leaves that price point behind, there are so many more sealed options now that the Rava's absence from the $400 price does not matter as much now as it would have a couple of years ago. Acoustic Visions' own MRS-10 sub uses a XBL^2-based driver and on paper at least, its performance is very close to the Rava's and it has a much smaller cabinet.

P.S. Kex, I couldn't have explained the parametric EQ any better myself!

I agree with most everything you have said here, and have reiterated some of these thoughts in my other posts. I guess what irks me, is that I always looked at the Adire Rava as already being a midlevel sub, with more of an entry level price. There are a lot of subs in the $400 range and under that are not great products, but their prices aren't bad either. The Rava it seemed, killed them all for the same $400. And it competed very nicely if not outperformed many subs that were already in the midlevel range, at again, a better price. At $800, and with an improved driver and amp it may yet again raise the bar for midlevel subs, but now that price has shifted to the point that it isn't the great deal as the old Rava. Most likely we wouldn't be complaining at all, if the original Rava had never been introduced, or if it sold at $600+. But at $400, it was on my shopping list for sure, at $800, it is not. But for others that are looking to buy a $800-1200 sub, this might be just the ticket. It may even be a bargain. However, it now has a lot more competition than it ever had at $400. At least that's the way I am viewing it.