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  1. #201
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Ok, since we are talking about welfare,education and the such. On a weekly basis I see teenage girls that are sexually active and they don't use birth control. I always ask them, what are you going to do when you get pregnant and they respond-I'll just go on welfare.
    This is partly whats wrong with this country.

    I also love it when a woman comes to the ER with here 5 kids and all are from different fathers and the woman is 20-25 years of age. This happens several times a day on a daily basis. Of course she has no job and is on welfare. And some of these kids are 2nd and 3rd generation welfare children. This is just as big a problem as immigration.

    This country probagates failure and welfare. Most of these welfare kids are doomed to failure and a life of welfare and poverty. And the viscious cycle goes on and on. Most of these kids will be poorly educated because they have no family support for education of good family morals. Many will be high school drop outs and dysfunctional people. In 100 years we will be a country of a large population of poor and uneducated people. And the people with jobs will be supporting them by paying 50% taxes and there will be no social security for people.

    Now I'm not saying that there arent opportunities for these peolpe to better themselves, its just that they become part of a culture of people that are lazy, with low ambition and no respect for education, and poor social and moral values.
    Good points....

    I'm not a believer in never-ending welfare... too much welfare creates a cycle of laziness... why work if I can get free handouts???

    But, I think there has to be something to address the needs of those who really need the assistance....

    I'm not sure exactly how US welfare is done, so If I make a wrong assumption I trust someone will correct me... That said, here goes:

    Maybe in conjunction with welfare, there could be job placement... so any who registers and receives welfare is automatically registered for aid in seeking employment.... and people who repeatedly turn down job opportunities are denied further welfare benefits...

  2. #202
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    [sarcasm mode on]

    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    This country probagates failure and welfare. Most of these welfare kids are doomed to failure and a life of welfare and poverty. And the viscious cycle goes on and on. Most of these kids will be poorly educated because they have no family support for education of good family morals. Many will be high school drop outs and dysfunctional people. In 100 years we will be a country of a large population of poor and uneducated people.
    I don't disagree with one word of your post, but these people have the right to reproduce indiscriminately. Why should they bother with birth control? ust because rubbers are practically given away, why shouldthgey bother? It takes the fun out of the spur of the moment pleasure. Just ask the ACLU or liberal America.

    [sarcasm mode off.]

    For the ultimate result of what you describe, rent the movie "Idiocracy". It's supposed to be a comedy.

    My take? I say tie their tubes the second time it happens on our dime, and even that's a compromise on my part.

  3. #203
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    If you haven't made it in American it is evident proof that you are lazy or timid and are therefore unworthy of any consideration from those who have.
    The difference between "making it" and not are almost always attributable to the amount of education one has. A very difficult challenge with the underclass, be they white, black, yellow, green, or purple is convincing folks to teach that to their young. Far too many youths think they can make it big in sports or music. They don't take the more realistic approach of seeking a career and making a plan to get there.

    There is a segment of society who believes that jobs should simply be made available to them, requiring no effort on their part for preparation. Give me a job. My parents were not wealthy and neither one finished college. But I was reading at age 5 and did well in school. My three brothers and I attended college. I think the difference has everything to do with the seeds that are planted when we are children. I wanted to be an astronaut when I grew up! Since I was very nearsighted, I accepted the fact that wouldn't work. Instead, I went into computer science at a state university.

    There have been many programs to promote education even to the extent of providing fully funded scholarships to fine universities. Many of these disadvantaged kids, however, were poorly prepared to face the challenges of the schooling because they never had applied themselves along the way. I blame that on their parents and a culture that failed to promote the secret to success. It saddens me to hear kids who say that being "smart" or working at school just isn't cool. For 99.9% of us, it's not playing basketball, becoming a rap or rock star and certainly not becoming a drug dealer.

    rw

  4. #204
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    There are job placement programs and some take advantage of it. But what do you do with the unwed mother who has 2-6 kids. Whos going to take care of the millions of kids. The jobs that are available for job placement programs are low paying. there is no incentive to work. And these people are coming from a culture where work is not in their vocabulary. Many cant read, spell or do simple math or even speak the english language properly.

    Don't get me wrong. There is a time and place for welfare for people that actually need it.
    There should also be a time limit for those that are just plain lazy and there should be a penalty for those that keep having more kids on welfare, because as it stands now, you get more money the more kids you have. I live in a state where welfare benefits are very high and people are flocking here from chicago to west ST. Paul. the drug use and crime has sky rocketed because of it. The number of gangs has also increased. With welfare people come all the other social problems of crime, drugs, gangs, teen pregnancy!
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  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Hey Ajani, You missed the boat about my commnet about Clinton. I said I was amazed that he was elected president given the fact it he was known to commit adultry before he was elected. This would seem to make him untrust worthy in the public's eyes. But very little of his infidelity during the time he was the governor got out to the general public, but most people in Arkansas new about it. And of course, it did catch up with him with the whole Monica Lewinsky episode. Now he's not the first president to have an affair during his presidency, its just that he got caught!

    And, there was the whole lying under oath about it that kind of made him look a little "untrustworthy". The Clintons are scum.

  6. #206
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    Maybe in conjunction with welfare, there could be job placement... so any who registers and receives welfare is automatically registered for aid in seeking employment.... and people who repeatedly turn down job opportunities are denied further welfare benefits...
    Great idea, but fails in practice many times. I worked for the family restaurant supply distribution business for many years. While centrally located to facilitate the delivery trucks, it was in a housing project neighborhood. We would regularly get visits from guys who - get this - wanted us to fill out a form they were given to prove they came by and asked for a job. Their objective was never to get a job, but simply to prove none were available. On one occasion, when we told the guy we needed him right now - you're hired! - he simply asked if we would sign the form. Boy, was my father pissed and refused to sign it.

    While that story is indeed anecdotal, it is not unique.

    rw

  7. #207
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    And, there was the whole lying under oath about it that kind of made him look a little "untrustworthy". The Clintons are scum.
    For the most part, politicians generally seem to be scum.... I wonder how many other Presidents would have done the exact same thing, if they'd been backed in a corner...

    They routinely lie to win campaigns, so it might just come naturally....

    Though I think Bill is shady, I always got the impression that he genuinely cares for people and makes an effort to help them... even now his major project is providing aid to the poor (Clinton Foundation or something like that)....

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    I don't disagree with one word of your post, but these people have the right to reproduce indiscriminately. Why should they bother with birth control? ust because rubbers are practically given away, why shouldthgey bother? It takes the fun out of the spur of the moment pleasure. Just ask the ACLU or liberal America.

    [sarcasm mode off.]

    For the ultimate result of what you describe, rent the movie "Idiocracy". It's supposed to be a comedy.

    My take? I say tie their tubes the second time it happens on our dime, and even that's a compromise on my part.

    Well said!

    And, I say tie'em off after the first time it happens. My wife and I are in our late 30's and we don't want kids and "somehow" we have managed to not have a child.

  9. #209
    JSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    For the most part, politicians generally seem to be scum.... I wonder how many other Presidents would have done the exact same thing, if they'd been backed in a corner...
    Backed into a corner? The corner of Truth? Give me a break.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    Though I think Bill is shady, I always got the impression that he genuinely cares for people and makes an effort to help them... even now his major project is providing aid to the poor (Clinton Foundation or something like that)....
    Again, give me a break. You don't think it's all a front for his wife's campaign and his own image?

    The Clinton's are liars and crooks who are out for the own self interests. And by no means are they the only ones.

  10. #210
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    In the bad part of town where i work we for a time would close the gates at the school i work at when the bell rang and you had to go to the front gate and you got a late pass. We did this for about 2weeks until one morning we had between 20-30 parents, mostly moms come into the office. At the end they said being late isn't important and we need to let them in the school when they are late and just go to class. The worst part is the office said ok.
    Look & Listen

  11. #211
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    Backed into a corner? The corner of Truth? Give me a break. .

    Yep, the corner of truth.... I still think most of the other lying, cheating politicians would have done the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    Again, give me a break. You don't think it's all a front for his wife's campaign and his own image?.
    It could be, though I think he was doing it long before his wife started campaigning, so it's more likely about his own image.... But, regardless I don't like to attack someone's charity work, since it could be legit and either way it still helps people... but that's just my personal philosphy

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    The Clinton's are liars and crooks who are out for the own self interests. And by no means are they the only ones.
    Possibly, but I just don't see them as being worse than any other politicians....

  12. #212
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Sorry to correct your math rw, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    "Norway, a nation of 4.6 million people, is the world's third-largest oil exporter, after Saudi Arabia."...

    ...Maybe the US should fly all our immigrants to Norway on a KLM 747. Norway's population would double in no time!

    rw
    Try quadruple, if not quintuple...

  13. #213
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    I remember a skit in which Dennis Miller said of Bill Clinton that he didn't disrespect him for smoking pot but, in fact, for lying about it..."it was the sixties for f%$^s sake, do you really want the geek who didn't hit the bong to have access to the launch codes..."

  14. #214
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    I'm not the one speaking in extremes, Melvin is.... The world is not black and white...

    It's not a case of either:

    1) Everybody who fails is stupid and/or lazy - as Melvin believes

    or

    2) Everyone who fails did so because the system was unfair to them - I find that concept as ridiculous as option 1)


    there is a third option, which I believe:

    Some people fail because they are lazy/stupid, while others fail because the system failed them...

    Not all Public schools are created equal... not all people get the same opportunity.... some fail because they don't try and some fail despite trying....
    I never wrote that " Everybody that fails is stupid and / lazy "
    Public education ,is good or bad based on community involvement. Example; The St.Louis Public schools are so poor that the state was forced to remove local control and administer the schools from the state level.

    The St.Louis parental involvement in P.T.A and P.T.O in St.Louis is less than 15% !
    The better surbuban schools has a parental involvement in P.T.A. and P.T.O of over
    80 % !.


    Your second point again I never wrote. Read my post , don't interpret them. Than post I wrote what you interpreted.
    My question is , public schools in America is payed for by the taxpayer, an education is essential , there many poor American that take advantage of America public schools and move into the middle class. There are others who don't. Those who don't suffer the consequences. What is it you disagree with in that statement ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by basite
    'slow', but stable.

    And car taxes here are high because of the reason I mentioned, the government dislikes medium sized and big cars. besides, why do we need them?

    unemployment is 'higher' in the south side of belgium, the walloons are the ones without a job, here in Flanders, unemployment rates are low. Really low.

    and as a matter of fact, Flanders, and belgium in general is making profits, so everything is possible to fund.
    The government of Belgium as in many European countries taxes cars that get poor gas mileage. Belgium imports all it's oil. Who needs them ? Those who enjoys large and powerful cars.

    Not to pick on Belgium , but western Europe in general is suffering from high unemployment , slow growth and expensive social programs. Which produce high taxes !
    The United States has been able have a healthy growth rate , and low unemployment due to much lower tax rates.
    As for as gas guzzler cars , We are a large country, you can drive across Belgium in one day . it takes longer than that to drive across Texas. America thinks big . is big.

    I agree we should tax those who buy large gas guzzling cars , I don't' agree we should have a social system that resembles western Europeans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    I can't comment on the level of healthcare received by "all Americans".... but I suspect it must be insuficient for many... or else universal healthcare would be a non-issue....

    Should only those able to afford it get good healthcare and those unable to do so, be stuck without it....

    Imagine someone who starts out very poor, but is smart... pays attention in school, goes to college, and before he can begin working manifests a serious illness and needs expensive medical care.... should he not receive it because he wasn't able to "hold off" becoming ill untill he was employed (and able to get health insurance from his job)?

    As I said, the issue really is a tough one...

    And as for higher taxes... I think the issue is often whether the taxes are being properly utilized.... I'm not in favor of more taxes, but I suspect that there are better ways to use some of the country's money...
    That someone you are referring to would receive free health care. We are a republic ,if anyone feels that taxes are not being utilized incorrectly in their opinion than there is the vote.

    NO AMERICAN IS DENIED HEALTHCARE IN AMERICA !! Again the poor Medcaid , the elderly Medicare , those with limited health insurance are still given health care !
    What else is there to say.
    There are those in Europe who receive different health care because of wealth.
    No different than in America.

  17. #217
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    Melvin, if you are going to complain about the St. Louis Public Schools, you really need to work on your own spelling and grammar. You have a severe case of the pot calling the kettle black right now.

    Sure, everyone makes mistakes and spelling and grammar are not the sole indicators of literacy, but there comes a moment at which errors in those areas substantially detract from whatever point you're attempting to make. You're well past that point, and consistently so.

    Two suggestions for you. If you're not using Firefox as your browser, consider it. It has a built-in spell checker. Second, use the "preview" screen before you post. You might catch a few more of your own mistakes before they are up for the world to see.

  18. #218
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    I don't' agree we should have a social system that resembles western Europeans.

    It's a choice. We choose that when something happens, we fall back on the social system and live on. You choose to go broke once you break your leg.


    unemployment rates aren't exessively high, in fact, globally seen, we're doing pretty good. On wikipedia, there is a map, with unemployment rates, made with numbers from the CIA, and we fall directly under the same category as the USA.

    and btw, The USA is showing strong signs of an upcoming recession, I wouldn't call that a nice economic growth.

    and I agree that people who have to cross the usa regulary need bigger cars, but there's also a vast amount of people who only use their cars to go into town and back to their home in the suburbs. You don't need a 6 litre chevy for that.

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  19. #219
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Unemployment varies alot within western European countries. Same for government debts, same for economics growth, aka GNP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl
    Melvin, if you are going to complain about the St. Louis Public Schools, you really need to work on your own spelling and grammar. You have a severe case of the pot calling the kettle black right now.

    Sure, everyone makes mistakes and spelling and grammar are not the sole indicators of literacy, but there comes a moment at which errors in those areas substantially detract from whatever point you're attempting to make. You're well past that point, and consistently so.

    Two suggestions for you. If you're not using Firefox as your browser, consider it. It has a built-in spell checker. Second, use the "preview" screen before you post. You might catch a few more of your own mistakes before they are up for the world to see.
    List the words that are spelled incorrectly. Do you have a degree in English ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Unemployment varies alot within western European countries. Same for government debts, same for economics growth, aka GNP.
    The United States GNP is greater than Japan and The European union combined.
    Unemployment in America is one of the lowest in the industrial world. American growth has consistently out performed most members of the European Union.

  22. #222
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    I never wrote that " Everybody that fails is stupid and / lazy "
    Public education ,is good or bad based on community involvement. Example; The St.Louis Public schools are so poor that the state was forced to remove local control and administer the schools from the state level.

    The St.Louis parental involvement in P.T.A and P.T.O in St.Louis is less than 15% !
    The better surbuban schools has a parental involvement in P.T.A. and P.T.O of over
    80 % !.
    +

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    It is true today any American that attends a public school payed for by American tax payers , studies , plans , graduates and makes the correct career decisions , will succeed in America
    There are those that make poor career decisions , don't take advantage of educational opporuntunies, they fail. It is not the systems failure but the individuals failure.
    The facts are if you don't make it in America , take a look in the morror first , than blame the system.
    There are to many success stories in this great country, many immigrants came here that are succeeding today, eastern and western Europeans , Asians , Hispanics,
    American Blacks are the richest , best educated and healthiest Blacks in the world !Why because of opportunities afforded those who wanted to succeed. Are others any different ?

    If a baboon attends public schools , studies , and plans his career well in America , you will have a successful baboon.
    = ????

    So if a Baboon attended that school in St. louis, he wouldn't be sucessful?


    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    Your second point again I never wrote. Read my post , don't interpret them. Than post I wrote what you interpreted.
    My question is , public schools in America is payed for by the taxpayer, an education is essential , there many poor American that take advantage of America public schools and move into the middle class. There are others who don't. Those who don't suffer the consequences. What is it you disagree with in that statement ?
    I never said you wrote my 2nd point. Read my posts. Don't just interpret them and post that I wrote what you interpreted.

    And for the record; you are probably the best troll this site has ever had.... I just said I wouldn't respond to you in a previous post and here I am unable to resist the bait... Even Spanky isn't this good.... Congratulations!!!!

  23. #223
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    List the words that are spelled incorrectly. Do you have a degree in English ?
    You rely too heavily on Spell-check. Your spelling is fine, but your grammar is atrocious.

    EDIT: Spell-check will not recognize if you use:

    "are" instead of "or"
    "than" instead of "then"

    etc....
    Last edited by Ajani; 02-02-2008 at 08:48 AM.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    The United States GNP is greater than Japan and The European union combined.
    That's actually correct, I'm amazed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by basite
    It's a choice. We choose that when something happens, we fall back on the social system and live on. You choose to go broke once you break your leg.


    unemployment rates aren't exessively high, in fact, globally seen, we're doing pretty good. On wikipedia, there is a map, with unemployment rates, made with numbers from the CIA, and we fall directly under the same category as the USA.

    and btw, The USA is showing strong signs of an upcoming recession, I wouldn't call that a nice economic growth.

    and I agree that people who have to cross the usa regulary need bigger cars, but there's also a vast amount of people who only use their cars to go into town and back to their home in the suburbs. You don't need a 6 litre chevy for that.

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    In America some of us buy 6 litre cars because we desire them. I drive a 5 litre car that gets 10 miles per gallon in the city and 18 miles a gallon on the highway. In America we have those choices would you want to change that ? Some of us have large homes ,
    that use a lot of fuel to heat and cool. Would you change that ? Than there are lawnmowers , freezers , and power consuming audio equipment. Would you wish to eliminate that also?

    If American stopped being the best consumer market in the world than what do you think would happen to other countries who depend on the American consumers ?
    It's the American way. Most of us could live in apartments as most Europeans do. Drive 2 litre cars as most Europeans do and drink warm beer not cold beer as Europeans do. Is that what you want for America ?
    If so than vote and work for change.

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