Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... LastLast
Results 176 to 200 of 299
  1. #176
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    There's some middle ground here. No, health care is not a right in the sense of life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. When the French and American Constitutions were penned in the 19th century, people just died from serious illness. The American dream exists for many millions of its citizens and continues to draw immigrants from all over the world.


    Believers in a free, non-socialistic state that breeds innovation. Those who choose to educate themselves and work can easily find health care.

    ..............

    In my humble opinion, yes. We are the land of opportunity, not the free lunch. We have the potential to earn more and spend it as we please. Choices.

    rw
    Universal healthcare really is a tough issue... though I support it... I agee that America should not be the land of the free lunch....

    It is unfair to force someone to give to charity (which is essentially what paying taxes to support those who can't afford healthcare is)... but if I was voting in a US election, I might vote for universal healthcare...

    Of course that assumes Hilary becomes the Democratic nominee, since Obama is not for universal healthcare... and Obama is my current favourite for President.... Since he seems like someone who is open to reason and logical discussion... which are IMHO essential to being President...

    But that's just my opinion....


    And I guess I should now add watching US news to my list of hobbies...

  2. #177
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Great read over morning coffee. Gracias, E-Stat.
    It's also a great read over morning tea

  3. #178
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    I think I like you E-stat! By the way, I lived in Fort Smith Arkansas after I got out of med school and practiced emergency medicine there before going on and doing a residency in emergency medicine in pennsylvania. Clinton was the Gov back then. Its hard to belive that he made it to president because every one in Arkansas new he was cheating on Hilary back then.
    I'm not sure why the fact that Bill cheated on his wife was ever really an issue... While I don't believe in cheating, it seems like an issue between him and his wife..... I just don't see how it affected his Presidency....

    It's like saying that a CEO of a large company is a bad CEO because he had an affair.. nope, he may be the best CEO the company has ever had... he's just a bad husband...

    Though, one point O'Shag raised that got me thinking, was about how he defiled the Oval office.... and truth is that I can't argue with that one.... If I had sex with my wife after hours in my office, I'd probably get fired....

  4. #179
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    _
    Posts
    1,951
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    Though, one point O'Shag raised that got me thinking, was about how he defiled the Oval office.... and truth is that I can't argue with that one.... If I had sex with my wife after hours in my office, I'd probably get fired....

    It's perfectly OK tho..it wasn't his wife.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  5. #180
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    It's perfectly OK tho..it wasn't his wife.
    LOL....

    I suspect I'd get fired whether it was my wife, the secretary, a homeless girl... who/whatever...

  6. #181
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127

    Men, women, and children

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    I agree for the most part... not so sure about point (4).... but I see the logic...

    But let me play devil's advocate here:

    If a 16 year old mexican girl attempted to cross the border illegally, would lethal force still be authorized? I know that just because it's authorized doesn't mean it has to be used.... but just think of the public relations nightmare for the US, if some trigger happy border guard decides to shoot down a truck full of women and children..... So I would be hesitant to authorize lethal force...

    Also, I really believe, that in addition to stricter border control and measures to keep out illegal immigrants, the US should try and make the path to legal immigration more transparent and accessible for the right people....
    Sure: shoot 'em. Men, women, children -- well OK, I'm negociable on point No.4. But to added another item (5) to my list, it ought to be impossible for illegals to obtain schooling, social benefits including health care, or for that matter a driver's license if you're illegal.

    Understand my points though. (1) The problem of illegal immigration is or ought to be separate from the health care issue, and (2) illegal immigration is source of cheap labor that many, many American businesses, (especially small-medium), would hate to forego -- and business interests have American politicians by the nuts.

  7. #182
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127

    I correct myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    ...
    Consider that this conventional, head-in-the-sand attitude might be the reason that an international agency recently rated the U.S. only 23rd in the world's best countries in which to live.
    Actually the U.S. is a lot better than 23rd: I do apologize.

    As this new items explains, the list toping countries are:
    1. Norway
    2. Australia
    3. Ireland
    4. Sweden
    5. Canada
    6. Japan
    7. United States
    ... CTV new item.

  8. #183
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    I don't believe that the facts support the your last assertion: hard working middle class people can and do drop through the US system of private insurance. Watch CNN for examples.
    You can always parade exceptions to every rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    As to whether health care is a right, (entitlement or whatever), is not a matter principle, but a matter of choice on part ot the American electorate.
    Correct. I've yet to see another country's model I prefer. I just read that already the cost to the State of Texas alone for providing health care to illegal immigrants (not even our own citizens) is a couple billion per year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Not a matter of hindsight: some people opposed the war despite believing that there were WsMD. They believed that Sadam ought to be contained by other means. Obama and I for two.
    I was referring to the eventual discovery that indeed Hussein had destroyed or effectively hid the remaining WMDs. Worldwide intelligence suggested otherwise. Other means? How many dozen UN resolutions and sanctions did Hussein laugh at while attacking neighboring countries? On the surface at least, he claimed the Kuwaitis were stealing their oil supplies beneath Iraqui soil. While that was never proven, please explain the rationale why he bombed Israeli cities with ballistic missiles? Not military targets as we did. Cities. People. Children. Folks having lunch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Consider that this conventional, head-in-the-sand attitude might be the reason that an international agency recently rated the U.S. only 23rd in the world's best countries in which to live.
    We'll send the millions of illegal immigrants your way instead and remind them of the study. BTW, what study is that?

    rw

  9. #184
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally Posted by basite
    no, that stupid war has made the gas prices go up,
    WAY up.

    you nuke a country, that country will hate the rich west, and the oil export will be cut, so the prices will rise. Right now prices are about 1 for a litre, when the war just started, we payed 0.5. Half the price of what we're paying now.

    and car taxes are fairly high here, because we don't want people to drive gigantic cars here, it's busy enough already in the streets, big fat SUV's are not going to help that, driving a Smart will.
    Your car taxes are high for medium and large cars not just SUV"s Your fuel taxes are very high , your payroll taxes are very high. Taxes in your country is high period. The economic growth in your country is slow and has been slow for years. Unemployment in your country has been above average for years.
    Most of cost of patrol in your country is due to taxes. Western European countries are suffering from high taxes , high unemployed , and slow growth.

    Belgium is not a bad country , but like more Western European countries it suffers from to many government social programs , that is becoming harder and harder to fund.

  10. #185
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    Universal healthcare really is a tough issue... though I support it... I agee that America should not be the land of the free lunch....

    It is unfair to force someone to give to charity (which is essentially what paying taxes to support those who can't afford healthcare is)... but if I was voting in a US election, I might vote for universal healthcare...

    Of course that assumes Hilary becomes the Democratic nominee, since Obama is not for universal healthcare... and Obama is my current favourite for President.... Since he seems like someone who is open to reason and logical discussion... which are IMHO essential to being President...

    But that's just my opinion....


    And I guess I should now add watching US news to my list of hobbies...
    All American receive health care ! , the elderly Medicare , the poor Medicare , many have health Insurance , those with none of the above receive free health care. Any American that requires health care can get it free ! That is the law.

    It is the type of health care that is the issue. Should all Americans receive the same health care ? American politicians many times mislead Americans for political reasons , especially the Democrats. The Democrats are in to higher taxes , especially Mrs. Clinton.
    Higher taxes would slow the American economy and America would be in the same shape as western Europe. High unemployment and slow growth. Is that what most of you want ?

    I have a cousin who teaches music a t a university in Austria , he has excellent social benefits , after taxes little else. Austria is a fairly wealthy country by European standards.
    Labor unions out of control , high taxes , social programs out of control and double digit unemployment has had a negative effect on European countries.

    An American worker and a German worker earn about the same the differences is the American keeps most of his salary. Those luxury cars built in Germany is shipped to America.

  11. #186
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Actually the U.S. is a lot better than 23rd: I do apologize.

    As this new items explains, the list toping countries are:
    Norway
    I read the document to which you linked. As for Norway, I found this interesting:

    "Norway, a nation of 4.6 million people, is the world's third-largest oil exporter, after Saudi Arabia."

    That speaks volumes. That would be like one of the fifty American states being the world's third largest source of income. It is also far easier to manage a relatively small country. Maybe the US should fly all our immigrants to Norway on a KLM 747. Norway's population would double in no time!

    rw

  12. #187
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    All American receive health care ! , the elderly Medicare , the poor Medicare , many have health Insurance , those with none of the above receive free health care. Any American that requires health care can get it free ! That is the law.

    It is the type of health care that is the issue. Should all Americans receive the same health care ?
    I can't comment on the level of healthcare received by "all Americans".... but I suspect it must be insuficient for many... or else universal healthcare would be a non-issue....

    Should only those able to afford it get good healthcare and those unable to do so, be stuck without it....

    Imagine someone who starts out very poor, but is smart... pays attention in school, goes to college, and before he can begin working manifests a serious illness and needs expensive medical care.... should he not receive it because he wasn't able to "hold off" becoming ill untill he was employed (and able to get health insurance from his job)?

    As I said, the issue really is a tough one...

    And as for higher taxes... I think the issue is often whether the taxes are being properly utilized.... I'm not in favor of more taxes, but I suspect that there are better ways to use some of the country's money...

  13. #188
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127

    American mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    ....

    Imagine someone who starts out very poor, but is smart... pays attention in school, goes to college, and before he can begin working manifests a serious illness and needs expensive medical care.... should he not receive it because he wasn't able to "hold off" becoming ill untill he was employed (and able to get health insurance from his job)?

    As I said, the issue really is a tough one...

    ...


    The is notion that is tightly engrained in the American psyche:
    America is the land of opportunity. Anyone how works hard and shows intiative can make it.

    Of course there is some truth to this, though perhaps is was more true in the 19th century than the 21st. However consider the corollary to the above; it isn't spoken but is equally engrained in the minds of Republicans or American who feel that they personally have "made it":
    If you haven't made it in American it is evident proof that you are lazy or timid and are therefore unworthy of any consideration from those who have.


  14. #189
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Anywhere but here...
    Posts
    13,243
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    The is notion that is tightly engrained in the American psyche:
    America is the land of opportunity. Anyone how works hard and shows intiative can make it.

    Of course there is some truth to this, though perhaps is was more true in the 19th century than the 21st. However consider the corollary to the above; it isn't spoken but is equally engrained in the minds of Republicans or American who feel that they personally have "made it":
    If you haven't made it in American it is evident proof that you are lazy or timid and are therefore unworthy of any consideration from those who have.

    Unless of coarse, you are actually lazy and unwilling to work, then we will take care of you. Only the lower middle class working their a$$'s off are put down.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  15. #190
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cal
    Posts
    1,994
    Well my daughter{23} is unable to work and can't get any help from the state or gov for drugs or doctor bills. She was told if she was having a baby or was non-citizen she would get at least state aid. So she suffers day in and day out. I can't help her.
    Look & Listen

  16. #191
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Anywhere but here...
    Posts
    13,243
    Must be because she is willing to work if she could. If she was faking it, then she could get all she wanted.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  17. #192
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Mortsel, Antwerp, Belgium, Europe, Earth
    Posts
    3,056
    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    Your car taxes are high for medium and large cars not just SUV"s Your fuel taxes are very high , your payroll taxes are very high. Taxes in your country is high period. The economic growth in your country is slow and has been slow for years. Unemployment in your country has been above average for years.
    Most of cost of patrol in your country is due to taxes. Western European countries are suffering from high taxes , high unemployed , and slow growth.

    Belgium is not a bad country , but like more Western European countries it suffers from to many government social programs , that is becoming harder and harder to fund.

    'slow', but stable.

    And car taxes here are high because of the reason I mentioned, the government dislikes medium sized and big cars. besides, why do we need them?

    unemployment is 'higher' in the south side of belgium, the walloons are the ones without a job, here in Flanders, unemployment rates are low. Really low.

    and as a matter of fact, Flanders, and belgium in general is making profits, so everything is possible to fund.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  18. #193
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    276

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    The is notion that is tightly engrained in the American psyche:
    America is the land of opportunity. Anyone how works hard and shows intiative can make it.

    Of course there is some truth to this, though perhaps is was more true in the 19th century than the 21st. However consider the corollary to the above; it isn't spoken but is equally engrained in the minds of Republicans or American who feel that they personally have "made it":
    If you haven't made it in American it is evident proof that you are lazy or timid and are therefore unworthy of any consideration from those who have.

    No American is denied medical care. All hospitals by law must provide health care to anyone that applies. There is a fund that American hospital must have reserved for the poor. Some Americans would prefer to not have limited hospital insurance , that would enable them to receive free health care.

    It is a myth that Americans are denied health care.
    It is true today any American that attends a public school payed for by American tax payers , studies , plans , graduates and makes the correct career decisions , will succeed in America

    There are those that make poor career decisions , don't take advantage of educational opporuntunies, they fail. It is not the systems failure but the individuals failure.
    The facts are if you don't make it in America , take a look in the morror first , than blame the system.
    There are to many success stories in this great country, many immigrants came here that are succeeding today, eastern and western Europeans , Asians , Hispanics,
    American Blacks are the richest , best educated and healthiest Blacks in the world !
    Why because of opportunities afforded those who wanted to succeed. Are others any different ?

    If a baboon attends public schools , studies , and plans his career well in America , you will have a successful baboon.

  19. #194
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    No American is denied medical care. All hospitals by law must provide health care to anyone that applies. There is a fund that American hospital must have reserved for the poor. Some Americans would prefer to not have limited hospital insurance , that would enable them to receive free health care.

    It is a myth that Americans are denied health care.
    It is true today any American that attends a public school payed for by American tax payers , studies , plans , graduates and makes the correct career decisions , will succeed in America
    There are those that make poor career decisions , don't take advantage of educational opporuntunies, they fail. It is not the systems failure but the individuals failure.

    The facts are if you don't make it in America , take a look in the morror first , than blame the system.
    There are to many success stories in this great country, many immigrants came here that are succeeding today, eastern and western Europeans , Asians , Hispanics,
    American Blacks are the richest , best educated and healthiest Blacks in the world !Why because of opportunities afforded those who wanted to succeed. Are others any different ?

    If a baboon attends public schools , studies , and plans his career well in America , you will have a successful baboon.
    I almost took the bait...

    I was actually going to write a detailed response to this post, but then I realized that anyone who really believes all the things you wrote (The one's I've highlighted) is not someone I can reason with...

  20. #195
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cal
    Posts
    1,994
    It is true today any American that attends a public school payed for by American tax payers , studies , plans , graduates and makes the correct career decisions , will succeed in America
    There are those that make poor career decisions , don't take advantage of educational opporuntunies, they fail. It is not the systems failure but the individuals failure

    And which part of that don't you get or is it always somebody's else fault?
    Look & Listen

  21. #196
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    5,421
    Hey Ajani, You missed the boat about my commnet about Clinton. I said I was amazed that he was elected president given the fact it he was known to commit adultry before he was elected. This would seem to make him untrust worthy in the public's eyes. But very little of his infidelity during the time he was the governor got out to the general public, but most people in Arkansas new about it. And of course, it did catch up with him with the whole Monica Lewinsky episode. Now he's not the first president to have an affair during his presidency, its just that he got caught!
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  22. #197
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central Ohio
    Posts
    6,307
    I can no longer read Melvin's mind numbing posts. If anything offensive is posted please use the report post feature.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  23. #198
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    It is true today any American that attends a public school payed for by American tax payers , studies , plans , graduates and makes the correct career decisions , will succeed in America
    There are those that make poor career decisions , don't take advantage of educational opporuntunies, they fail. It is not the systems failure but the individuals failure

    And which part of that don't you get or is it always somebody's else fault?
    I'm not the one speaking in extremes, Melvin is.... The world is not black and white...

    It's not a case of either:

    1) Everybody who fails is stupid and/or lazy - as Melvin believes

    or

    2) Everyone who fails did so because the system was unfair to them - I find that concept as ridiculous as option 1)


    there is a third option, which I believe:

    Some people fail because they are lazy/stupid, while others fail because the system failed them...

    Not all Public schools are created equal... not all people get the same opportunity.... some fail because they don't try and some fail despite trying....

  24. #199
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Hey Ajani, You missed the boat about my commnet about Clinton. I said I was amazed that he was elected president given the fact it he was known to commit adultry before he was elected. This would seem to make him untrust worthy in the public's eyes. But very little of his infidelity during the time he was the governor got out to the general public, but most people in Arkansas new about it. And of course, it did catch up with him with the whole Monica Lewinsky episode. Now he's not the first president to have an affair during his presidency, its just that he got caught!
    Oh, thanx for the clarification... I clearly misinterpreted your post... sorry about that...

    I know people seem to expect their President to be someone with morals.... but I'm still not sure why a President's lovelife should be such a big deal.... Especially since so many people are convinced that President Kennedy was having an affair (and he was loved by the American People)... So it just baffles me...

  25. #200
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    5,421
    Ok, since we are talking about welfare,education and the such. On a weekly basis I see teenage girls that are sexually active and they don't use birth control. I always ask them, what are you going to do when you get pregnant and they respond-I'll just go on welfare.
    This is partly whats wrong with this country.

    I also love it when a woman comes to the ER with here 5 kids and all are from different fathers and the woman is 20-25 years of age. This happens several times a day on a daily basis. Of course she has no job and is on welfare. And some of these kids are 2nd and 3rd generation welfare children. This is just as big a problem as immigration.

    This country probagates failure and welfare. Most of these welfare kids are doomed to failure and a life of welfare and poverty. And the viscious cycle goes on and on. Most of these kids will be poorly educated because they have no family support for education of good family morals. Many will be high school drop outs and dysfunctional people. In 100 years we will be a country of a large population of poor and uneducated people. And the people with jobs will be supporting them by paying 50% taxes and there will be no social security for people.

    Now I'm not saying that there arent opportunities for these peolpe to better themselves, its just that they become part of a culture of people that are lazy, with low ambition and no respect for education, and poor social and moral values.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •