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What brand of receiver and power should I buy?
I have great speakers, B&W CDM1 NT.I need about 50-75 watts to properly drive them I am told. Currently I have a 15 wpc Pioneer. Sounds great though but I won't really know until I get another receiver. I am thinking a vintage. Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, Yamaha, Macintosh. What do you all think? All I want is to play the radio and listen to cd's. All kinds of music. Please help.
They call me the Wulf.
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If you want a good-looking vintage receiver, those are the ones. My personal favorite from that group is Marantz. Their 22** series is on Audiogon and eBay all the time. The two digits following the 22 are the power rating, so you'd be looking for a 2275 or similar.
However, if you're more interested in sound quality than looks, vintage receivers from that group won't likely be as good as newer equipment from Adcom, Arcam, NAD, Rotel, etc...although I wouldn't say that's true in every case. A nice system in the power range of what you seek would be an Adcom GFA-535 and a GTP-400. But of course it's not as pretty as a Sansui G-5000 receiver...which is rated for 45 watts.
I "borrowed" this photo from classicaudio.com. You might want to have a look at their site.
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Thank you so much. You are very helpful. I like Sansui. Is power only needed if you have large rooms? Or is it about men that gotta have the biggest and baddest.
The Wulf
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How much power you need is a subjective question. High power has its place. My primary system has an amp rated for 50 watts, so I'm in the same range you're planning to be in. 50 watts works well in my 12 x 15 x 8 room and less power could work well, too...assuming it's good quality power.
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Do you think you need more power because B&W suggests you do or because you want to be able to turn it up louder?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjdalton1
Is power only needed if you have large rooms? Or is it about men that gotta have the biggest and baddest.
Neither :)
More power mean lower distortion. You will need ample (dynamic) power to accuratly reproduce music peaks. If amp can't deliver, distorion will be high.
As 02audionoob mentioned, you probably will get better performance going with newer receivers. Aging (and heat) have a funny way of degrading performance with vintage receivers.
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"You will need ample (dynamic) power to accuratly reproduce music peaks" is a good rationalization for "men that gotta have the biggest and baddest".
The sad fact is that recorded material these days generally has less than a 10 dB peak to average ratio. This means that if you're putting an average of 1 Watt into your speakers, you'd need a just 5 W amp to provide adequate headroom.
The amount of average power you need does depend on how far you are from the speakers, how loud you want it to be, the efficiency and power-handling capability of the speakers. Believe it or not, 1 W average is actually reasonably rowdy.
When B&W recommends a 50-75 W amp because a smaller amp won't be able to drive the speakers to the fully loudness they're capable of. A larger amp would smoke them if you turned it up too high. If you don't plan to do your listening at the speaker's full capacity, you can be quite happy with a smaller amp.
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And also...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevio
The amount of average power you need does depend on how far you are from the speakers, how loud you want it to be, the efficiency and power-handling capability of the speakers. Believe it or not, 1 W average is actually reasonably rowdy.
...the type of music you listen to. Yes, most pop music is a little anemic on dynamic swings, but a well recorded classical symphonic piece will put much higher requirements on your gear.
You source will also dictate what you should get - if it truncates the music or has high distortion, then it doesn't really matter what you've got down the line from there. Garbage in > garbage out.
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I got some very good answers from everyone. I have a lot of distortion with this old little 15 wpc pioneer. It appears that power will help with the distortion I have. I need dynamic power. So what receiver do I get that is fairly new and has wattage 50-75 wpc. Kevio, the speakers won't smoke until I hit 120 wpc of which I would have to blast. I am looking for clean sound. I think i could stay in the 50-75 wpc range and get what I am looking for. What are my options boyz? What receivers? I want a little radio too.
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Look at the Harmon Kardon receivers. This 3490 puts out 120wpc of high current power which would match well with the B&W's. http://www.harmankardon.com/product_...3490&sType=PCS
It can be had for under $300. It has bass management and preamp outs. Its a real bargain in a 2ch receiver.
If you want to spend a little more, say $600, consider the Outlaw 2150 receiver.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html
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I like the Harman Kardon recommendation, especially on a thrifty budget. If you don't mind spending more dough than that, maybe Rotel is worth a look.
http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/Pro...ails.htm?Id=40
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Onkyo or their "lexus" brand, Integra.
I drive five B&W loudspeakers with my 7.4 with nary a hiccup.
HAD HER FIVE YEARS and will keep her a few more.:1"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevio
"You will need ample (dynamic) power to accuratly reproduce music peaks" is a good rationalization for "men that gotta have the biggest and baddest".
The sad fact is that recorded material these days generally has less than a 10 dB peak to average ratio. This means that if you're putting an average of 1 Watt into your speakers, you'd need a just 5 W amp to provide adequate headroom.
I really think that if you look at relation between loudness and output power, you will get better picture of amount of power speaker need to produce satisfactory volume without distortion.
Given that if you double power output to speaker will only result in slightly increase in volume (1 dB), and doubling the volume (3 dB) require ten time output power, you see how things can get out of control very quirkily and amp will run out of steam.
One watt is alright for back ground music, but for average listening situations 50 to 100 (RMS) power with Dynamic power of 200 watt is more adequate.
This link explain it better.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0907/
Quote:
When B&W recommends a 50-75 W amp because a smaller amp won't be able to drive the speakers to the fully loudness they're capable of. A larger amp would smoke them if you turned it up too high. If you don't plan to do your listening at the speaker's full capacity, you can be quite happy with a smaller amp.
That is an audio myth. In actuality smaller (under power) amp is more dangerous for speakers than larger amp. The distortion from smaller amp will damage speaker's tweeter/midrange faster than higher power with lower distortion will.
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I think what this discussion tells the OP is that there is a wide range of acceptable power ratings. I've found what I think is the sweet spot for my tastes at 50 watts, but I've had a 200-watt amp before. It had its merits.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
Nice article. Both of us fumbled some of the numbers but I didn't find any errors in this article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
That is an audio myth. In actuality smaller (under power) amp is more dangerous for speakers than larger amp. The distortion from smaller amp will damage speaker's tweeter/midrange faster than higher power with lower distortion will.
It is true that a lower powered amp overdriven into clipping can be more dangerous than a higher powered amp properly driven and producing clean power.
It is not true that the higher powered amp is always safer. Try this thought experiment: There are not many speakers that could be blown by a 1 watt amp no matter how hard you drive it - you'll just get sound appropriate for electric guitar or the amp will blow first. On the other hand, you don't have to crank too far to blow a pair of bookshelf speakers with clean power from a 1000 W amp.
The power recommendations are designed to protect the speakers. It is not foolproof; if you don't back off on the level when it starts to sound like crap you will blow tweeters.
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What I would like to hear guys are recomendations of recievers of wpc 50-75 vinatge and present. I am hearing Rotel, Sansui, Pioneer, Harmon Kardon, Outlaw, Onkyo (Integra), Creek Destiny.
Is this it. Is this it?
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You forgot NAD too, but all are good suggestions. A feature you also would want is bass management. You may/may not need it now, but in the future I think you'd be glad to have it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevio
It is not true that the higher powered amp is always safer. Try this thought experiment: There are not many speakers that could be blown by a 1 watt amp no matter how hard you drive it - you'll just get sound appropriate for electric guitar or the amp will blow first. On the other hand, you don't have to crank too far to blow a pair of bookshelf speakers with clean power from a 1000 W amp.
Not if speakers are Bose :D
What you are saying does have merit as each speakers have their own power input limit. But if you look at available power in term of distortion, I think you might agree that higher power is always better.
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Onkyo makes some nice budget 2ch receivers as well. And Harman Kardon also makes an 80wpc receiver.
http://www.harmankardon.com/product_...3390&sType=PCS
B&H photo has it for $219 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...0Kardon%203390
But I would go for the 3490 with 120wpc. It gives you some headroom if you want to upgrade to more demanding speakers in the future.
Here's the Onkyo receivers- http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i
I would also consider this Integrated amp and tuner by Cambridge Audio http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/series...tle=550+stereo
Its 100wpc. I think that the HK is a better receiver though.
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Here's a really nice receiver if you want to spend some money.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MDMD209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
Not if speakers are Bose :D
What you are saying does have merit as each speakers have their own power input limit. But if you look at available power in term of distortion, I think you might agree that higher power is always better.
I agree with Smokey, you'll blow your ears before you blow your speakers.
But I am puzzled, why a receiver for audio only?
Why not a nice integrated like this
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...mber=MHA25%2E2
You can hammer a nail with a pipe wrench, but you get better results with a tool for the job.:1:
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You may find a good deal hear on Cambridge Audio, they are closing out there 540 and 640 series for the 550 and 650 series. The only difference is the new models give you an iPod input on the front panel, and they updated the volume and tone control pots again. You can save $300 by buying the closeout model.
http://www.spearitsound.com/Cambridg...dio_540av2.asp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjdalton1
All I want is to play the radio and listen to cd's.
This is why a receiver. An integrated amp would not provide a tuner. Of course, you can buy a separate tuner. In fact, that might be a decent idea. You could get an HD radio tuner.
http://www.amazon.com/Sangean-HDT-1-.../dp/B000J13TEE
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A friend of mine has this tuner, he's happy with it, and it does sound and works well. Not too expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XDRF1HD-H...7445721&sr=1-2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02audionoob
Considering the state of radio today, not having a tuner might be considered
a good thing:1:
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Re:
If you are going to go two channel, go Macintosh! they have some nice sounding tube preamp/amp stuff (if your willing to pay a little bit more)
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What does:
2 channel mean.
4 ohm and 8 ohm mean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjdalton1
What does:
2 channel mean.
4 ohm and 8 ohm mean
2-channel means stereo. There are multi-channel setups for surround sound so stereo is different from those in that it has only two channels.
4 Ohm and 8 Ohm refer to the speaker resistance. Ohm is the electrical unit for resistance. Many speakers are 8 Ohm so the power rating receiver or amp is given with regard to what each channel does with a resistance of 8 Ohms. If the speakers are 4 Ohm, many amps can provide more power, for which the unit is watts. So the number of watts might be considerably higher when the power rating for 4 Ohms is listed.
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