• 03-04-2007, 09:35 AM
    stevef22
    What are the best formats besides SACD?
    I want to buy a pro CD Player but not sure what is the best format? Anyone know a page that compares the different formats? SACD, HDCD?

    What is your pick for High Def Audio?


    Thanks,
    Steve


    PS: Found great site about for SACD information.
    http://www.telarc.com/SACD/articles/...sacd_info.html
  • 03-04-2007, 09:40 AM
    basite
    WHAT DO YOU MEAN WITH A PRO CD PLAYER?

    IHMO, sacd is the best of all digital formats, it also plays more analogue then any other digital format.

    hdcd is better than the regular cd, but are quite hard to find, it will make a difference though when you play a cd on a HDCD player.

    but don't forget regular cd's too eh...
    they're sound isn't bad, but just get a decent player for any format.

    Greetings,
    Bert.
  • 03-04-2007, 09:51 AM
    bobsticks
    Hey Steve, welcome to the forum. Presumably, by "pro-cd" player you mean a universal player. The designation is important because several of the formats are not considered "CD" in technical sense. DVD-A is good, as well as 24/96 DAD, both of which are based on the DVD format. HDCD can be good and, of course, will benefit from being played on the proper equipment.
  • 03-04-2007, 10:03 AM
    basite
    welcome to the forums btw :)

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
  • 03-04-2007, 10:17 AM
    Woochifer
    By "pro CD" what are you referring to?

    As far as formats go, it all depends on what you're looking for.

    First off, the CD format is what it is. It's a 16-bit format sampled at 44.1 kHz. HDCD is an enhancement that purportedly provides a slight increase to the dynamic range, but you need both a HDCD-encoded disc and a CD player capable of decoding the HDCD data.

    Aside from SACD, the other high resolution digital audio format out there is DVD-Audio, which is a 24-bit audio format that uses sampling rates of 96 or 192 kHz. SACD and DVD-A are both considered failures because they never really gained a huge foothold in the market. Several releases did come out in both formats, but the major labels have slowed down their releases to a trickle. While both formats did provide higher resolution, IMO the biggest benefit that they brought to the market was 5.1 multichannel audio. Multichannel necessitated remixing the original multitrack masters, which often resulted in a noticeable improvement in audio quality. Plus, you get a very different listening experience with the music in surround.

    There are also DVDs out there listed with "PCM Stereo" tracks. The DVD format natively supports higher resolution audio, and these PCM tracks can actually go up to the 96/24 resolution that DVD-A uses (except that it's limited to two-channel). DVDs that include PCM tracks are typically encoded at lower resolution to make space for the video data, but still higher than the CD's resolution.

    In addition to these uncompressed (or "lossless") formats, you also have Dolby Digital and DTS, which are both compressed formats. Both are capable of 5.1 multichannel audio (with DTS ES capable of 6.1). DD is the more compressed of the two formats and one of the standard audio formats for the DVD. DTS is less compressed, and is an optional audio format for the DVD.

    But, no matter which format you're listening to, by far the biggest variable is the original recording itself and how the transfer was done. If an original recording was done poorly, it won't matter if you're listening to a CD or SACD, it will still sound bad. Conversely, a well done CD can sound quite good in its own right. While a high res SACD or DVD-A version will often sound audibly better than the CD version, keep in mind that the differences between the two versions go beyond just the playback format and resolution. Different mastering engineers might have been used to supervise the transfer from the master tape to the CD/SACD/DVD-A, using different EQ or processor settings, different playback rigs, and even different master tapes. It really comes down to a case-by-case proposition.

    Which player you go with depends on whether you really want to explore the high res digital formats. And in that respect, you should look into what titles are available in both formats, and see if any essential albums are in DVD-A and/or SACD. If so, then it might be worth looking into a dedicated CD/SACD player or a universal DVD player that plays SACDs and DVD-As. If not, then stick with a higher quality CD player (some of which will have HDCD decoding on board) and be done with it.
  • 03-04-2007, 10:17 AM
    Wireworm5
    IMO sacd is the best format if you're in an enviroment that allows you to play at above average spl and in multi-channel. This is because often but not always its recorded at a lower gain probably because it is more dynamic than cd's. Once you level match it to that of a cd, you get very realistic bass which may be a problem in some homes.

    For me however since getting a power conditioner all my cd's sound considerably better. In fact I didn't think cd's were capable of the resolution. And on remastered cd's as good as some dts concert video's I have.

    So my plan in the near future is to upgrade to a high quality cd player with good dac's. This should give me comparible resolution to that of my present sacd's, which is pretty darn good. Coupled with the fact that cd's are recordable, which for me makes the cd the best format.
  • 03-04-2007, 10:32 AM
    hifitommy
    oppo
    here is what i might just have to get even though the sony ns500v i have is more than adequate for sacd (and XLNT on rbcd):

    http://www.oppodigital.com/opdv971h.html

    it does everything you ask for. here is a comment a friend sent me:

    Tommy,

    I think I told you last time we met, I was considering
    the OPPO digital DVD player. It was the one
    highlighted in the January issues of TAS.

    I finally had it delivered this week and I've been
    playing with it.

    I considered the DV-970H primarily for audio and it
    does the sound portion very well. It does decode my
    HDCDs in 20bit resolution and for the first time, I've
    been able to enjoy DVD-A played musically. I was
    astonished in that it also played my authored discs as
    well as some discs which I thought were defective and
    unplayable. For the first time I've heard the last
    three tracks on the Heart Greatest hits CD.

    What I did not expect is the video playback. Once
    again it plays everything even copies of discs given
    to me that I was unable to play in conventional
    players. There is video software I've only been able
    to view on my PC which are now playable on my stereo
    system with a TV connected. It even plays AVI files
    and PAL encoded discs.

    I've not tried the USB interface or the smart card
    interface yet. Im not sure how to take advantage of
    the USB port. Maybe try my camera.

    For $149, I could not pass this one up. I previously
    considered a Seperate DAC or a higher-end player.

    I want to try SACDs. Any suggestions?

    Hope all is well with you.

    -Les


    this player got the 'budget product of the year' in the absolute sound magazine and that is a HIGH END mag. the cheeeeper of the two is $150, less than my sony was and the oppo is a UNIVERSAL player, the sony is not.

    good luck.
  • 03-04-2007, 07:10 PM
    PeruvianSkies
    I personally prefer SACD and there are some DTS-CD's and DVD-Audio's that are worthy titles. The DTS-CD that I most enjoy is THE MOODY BLUES "Seventh Sojourn".
  • 03-04-2007, 08:03 PM
    stevef22
    Thanks audio people for explaining to me all the technology that goes behind audio listening formats. After careful consideration and looking at my wallet several times I purchased the Oppo DV-970HD player. It plays SACD as well as a plethora of other video formats. I paid $160 after shipping charges, $150 + $10 shipping.

    HiFiTommy, The Oppo DV-971HD did not have SACD, The Oppo DV-981 has SACD but costs $50 more and also has better video quality because of the Genesis/Faroudja chipset. But hey, I dont care about video so much, I only have 31" TV. So the DV-970 is my choice.

    I figure this is a nice entry level pro audio player and not as much as Denon $800 + players.

    Thanks again for the lesson in audio and nice to be at this forum.

    Steve


    http://www.oppodigital.com/images/dv_970hd_home.gif Oppo DV-971HD BOUGHT!!!
  • 03-05-2007, 03:27 AM
    Feanor
    By all accounts ...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevef22
    Thanks audio people for explaining to me all the technology that goes behind audio listening formats. After careful consideration and looking at my wallet several times I purchased the Oppo DV-970HD player. It plays SACD as well as a plethora of other video formats. I paid $160 after shipping charges, $150 + $10 shipping.
    ...

    Thanks again for the lesson in audio and nice to be at this forum.

    Steve


    http://www.oppodigital.com/images/dv_970hd_home.gif Oppo DV-971HD BOUGHT!!!

    The Oppo DV-970HAD is greate choice, Steve. Congrats!

    I share the opinion that SACD is the best medium at this time. I believe DVD-A is pontentially as good, but SACD has the lead in the market, such as that market is -- a niche audiophile market and likely to stay that way.

    What is great about SACD is not just the sound but the fact that it is multi-channel. Well-made M/C recordings bring a level of life-like performance that stereo cannot; this is quite obvious, e.g. on classical music recordings. (I say this about M/C even though I listen 95% to stereo.)