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  1. #1
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    We could learn alot from Porn Stars

    So if you want to be in a porno movie for any of the major producers down in the Valley, you have to present your regular AIDS test showing that you are negative. No AIDS sceening, no performance. I think we could learn alot from that mentality.

    Here we have a hobby dedicated, in large part, to hearing. But, how many of us have had an audiogram in the last 6 months. How about the last year? 5 years? 10 years? Ever?

    For the uninitiated, here is a quick blurb on what and audiogram is. I had an audiogram last week. It was a followup exam from the corrective ear surgery that I had before Christmas. Guess what? I was truly a deaf mutha-effer. I went from a range of -30 to -45db to no more than -5db across the board. And my tenitus is gone. It took awhile for my low frequency hearing to return, but it is back now that everything is healed.

    My point is this. Hearing truly is a subjective thing, as exemplified by the objective audiogram. Everyone's ears are constructed differently, have different damage, or lack of damage, ect. ect. Accordingly, your speakers really do sound different to me than they do to you. We talk about frequency response curves and sensitivity. Well, your ears have their own frequency response curve and sensitivity and its different than mine. It is still important to get your in-room response as flat as possible, but that is why you can't do it by ear. Are you all excited that Dynaudio has matched their drivers within .5db? Me too. Dynaudio makes fine speakers, but there should at least be a recognition that your ears are not even matched within .5db.

    I think that this is a part of the system that is overlooked too often. I know I lived by my hearing damage too long. I thought, "Oh well, it's the price I pay for too many live shows and too much unclean living." I was wrong. I was also much, much more deafer than I realized. It happened so slowly that I didn't trully notice how a bad it had become. If you haven't been to an ear doctor in awhile, if ever, you should go. Especially, if your someone that likes to bag on other peoples systems.

    I think before you get to bag on someone elses system or experience, you have to produce an audiogram no more than 6 months old. We'll do it just like the porn stars do, except with audiograms... and without all the hot spicy anonymous sex that has no consequences...
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    Hmmm... I have high frequency hearing loss in my left ear. I wonder if I fax my audiogram to my health insurance provider will they pay for the corrective surgery.

    Oh wait a minute. I'm not even sure they'll pay for the exam.

    Irregardless, thanks for this useful thread SlumpBuster!

  3. #3
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Good post! I've said before here, an audiologist friend of mine assures me the shape of our ears can contribute more to the frequency response we perceive than any piece of equipment at any price ever could.
    Makes you wonder if plastic surgery would be cheaper than spending $60,000 on some esoteric cables and amplifier powered by peat moss and a hamster on a wheel.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Hmmm... I have high frequency hearing loss in my left ear. I wonder if I fax my audiogram to my health insurance provider will they pay for the corrective surgery.

    Oh wait a minute. I'm not even sure they'll pay for the exam.

    Irregardless, thanks for this useful thread SlumpBuster!

    I got good insurance, what can I say? But, keep in mind, insured or not, my "corrective surgery" was really just tubes in my ear drums that billed out to $650. The audiograms were $150 times two with two office visits at $150. So, approx $1200 and my hearing is completely restored.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Good post! I've said before here, an audiologist friend of mine...
    Does he accept Cigna HMO patients?

  6. #6
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    Actually, I was also attempting to point out the banality of guys like Melvin. He prolly has cotton balls in his years. I figured by including the phrase "porn stars" in the title, it would keep him away. He doesn't like that loose language, you know?
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    Up "hear" in the Great White North, Workers Comp. will pay for one hearing test every two years (I think it's 2 years) if you work in a noisy environment (ie: construction, factory etc.). I had one done about 9 months ago.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    Actually, I was also attempting to point out the banality of guys like Melvin. He prolly has cotton balls in his years. I figured by including the phrase "porn stars" in the title, it would keep him away. He doesn't like that loose language, you know?
    Heheheheh, you said "porn star" and "loose" in the same sentence...hehehehe
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  9. #9
    Village Idiot johnny p's Avatar
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    whoa whoa whoa whoa..........

    Is there a corrective/elective surgery that I can get that would give me the sense that my Speakers are 8 feet apart at all times?

  10. #10
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    We could learn alot from Porn Stars

    Jah, like that sideways thing wit the Vulcan

  11. #11
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    actually, there's a thread on AK about a similar subject...


    the university of south wales made a site with an interesting application on it.
    It allows you to make your own audiogram, well, sort of...

    check it out here
    it only goes up to 16khz, but it will give you a clear idea of how your good/bad your hearing still is...
    this little program is also interesting, It's a tonegenerator, I use it to test my system, to set it up and for quick hearing tests...

    both worth checking out...

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  12. #12
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Cheers for that Bert. I seem to have sensitive hearing around 1KHz and 6KHz (this is where I'm at '0dB'). It goes down alot at 16KHz, but I can clearly hear it. From what I've measured for myself, my hearing ranges from 0 to -9dB throughout the audible audio spectrum, except for the extremes. Obviously these are slightly biased measurments, as I knew more or less what was coming to me, having studied some of this in the past. Good stuff I used some in-ear earphones, they seem to do the trick pretty well. So.. what is Tenitus anyway?
    Last edited by audio amateur; 02-06-2008 at 01:59 PM.

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    I think Tenitus is a constant ringing in the ear.

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    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Does this mean that we should not set up our systems to have a flat response? Maybe it should be the inverse of our hearing graphs.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  16. #16
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    Does this mean that we should not set up our systems to have a flat response? Maybe it should be the inverse of our hearing graphs.
    That's faulty logic. Our unique hearing characteristics (including deficiencies) apply to all sounds we hear, including live music.

    Let's say we have a dip in our hearing at 5KHz. When we hear a live violin the sound gets processed to our brain with that dip.

    A stereo system should have a flat response so it gives out the same frequency quality as the real instrument. If the stereo system were tweaked to boost at 5KHz, it would make the reproduced violin sound different than the live one.

    Stereo systems have a hard enough time reproducing real instruments without intentionally adding to the problem.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Good thinking..

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Does this mean that we should not set up our systems to have a flat response? Maybe it should be the inverse of our hearing graphs.
    but I doubt so, it would be even more complicated than trying to get 'flat' room reponse, plus our ears are used to being like this, it wouldn't be natural for them to be adjusted to their un-eveness.
    Tinnitus sucks.. I've never had it. Thankfully. Except for the odd times after clubbing, which I avoid as much as possible. One can never be too careful with his/her hearing

  18. #18
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    So, if we're used to hearing things wrong, we should continue to hear things at the same wrongness?
    You guys do know that I'm just joking right? It was just a faulty joke.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  19. #19
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Obviously these are slightly biased measurments, as I knew more or less what was coming to me, having studied some of this in the past. Good stuff I used some in-ear earphones, they seem to do the trick pretty well. So.. what is Tenitus anyway?

    'measuring equipment' we use (our PC) isn't really considered to be exellent for this, but it would give you an Idea...

    you could try various equipment, I tested with my thiels of course, since the other options I have are a set of 30 year old Technics headphones (and not good ones) and my pc speakers, the pc speakers don't even reach 16 khz decently, so I used my thiels...


    GM, a flat frequency response is not always what you're looking for. Theoretically seen, a flat frequency response is 'the ideal', but ideal can sound boring too. I'd rather have my system to have a certain distinctive sound than to have a completely flat frequency response. The fact that our hearing is unique is another factor though. some will like my system, others might not. Some might like a flat frequency response, some might find it sounding boring and well, flat.


    Audio Amateur, when your ears are ringing after a party or so, means that the music there was too loud, it's a warning, after such parties, it's best to let your ears have some rest...

    It's a temporal hearing loss, I read somewhere that the brain creates the ringing sound, to fill in some missing frequencies.

    Keep them spinning,
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by basite
    'measuring equipment' we use (our PC) isn't really considered to be exellent for this, but it would give you an Idea...
    As far as i'm concerned, I did this the best way it could be done (ie. no room acoustics with earphones, flat response throughout) so I believe it was pretty accurate, except for the part where I judge the 'loundess' of each freq. which was the most subjective part of the exercise, and also the most difficult to get right.
    Quote Originally Posted by basite
    Audio Amateur, when your ears are ringing after a party or so, means that the music there was too loud, it's a warning, after such parties, it's best to let your ears have some rest...

    It's a temporal hearing loss, I read somewhere that the brain creates the ringing sound, to fill in some missing frequencies.

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    I'm aware, thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    I got good insurance, what can I say? But, keep in mind, insured or not, my "corrective surgery" was really just tubes in my ear drums that billed out to $650. The audiograms were $150 times two with two office visits at $150. So, approx $1200 and my hearing is completely restored.
    I'm curious about your hearing correction. The only way putting tubes in your eardrums would help your hearing is if there was an difference in pressures between the inner and outer ear. This is pretty common in young children where the eustachian(sp) tube isn't developed to equalize the pressure. The pressure causes fluids to be drawn from the surrounding tissues. It's the tightness of the eardrum which causes initial hearing problems. If left untreated the eardrum stretches losing its flexibility causing permanent hearing loss.

    The tubes are inserted to equalize the pressure and also allow drainage so the eardrum doesn't spontaneously puncture. My daughter actually had to have an eardrum punctured twice before tubes could be inserted. Voluntary puncturing allows the puncture to happen along the edge which heals better than a spontaneous puncture somewhere in the middle. How do the tubes help in your situation?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfalls
    I'm curious about your hearing correction. The only way putting tubes in your eardrums would help your hearing is if there was an difference in pressures between the inner and outer ear. This is pretty common in young children where the eustachian(sp) tube isn't developed to equalize the pressure. The pressure causes fluids to be drawn from the surrounding tissues. It's the tightness of the eardrum which causes initial hearing problems. If left untreated the eardrum stretches losing its flexibility causing permanent hearing loss.

    The tubes are inserted to equalize the pressure and also allow drainage so the eardrum doesn't spontaneously puncture. My daughter actually had to have an eardrum punctured twice before tubes could be inserted. Voluntary puncturing allows the puncture to happen along the edge which heals better than a spontaneous puncture somewhere in the middle. How do the tubes help in your situation?
    Bingo! My hearing was helped exactly how you described.

    The whole "tube in your ear thing" has come a long way in the last 20 or 30 years. My eustachian tubes are not functioning properly leading to fluid buildup behind the eardrum. I had previously suffered from ear infections an had a pretty bad one a number of years ago. I was told by the doctor at the time that I had permanent loss in my right ear. Turns out that he was wrong.

    Tubes are thought of generally as a childhood issue, but according to my current doctor, they are becoming more frequent in adults. It appears to be a much different procedure for adults with no anesthesia being used. Despite what they tell you, it hurts really bad to have it done. Well the insicion and insertion don't hurt so much, its the vacuuming out of all the junk behind your eardrum that hurts like an SOB. While outcomes differ from person to person, my hearing is almost 100%. I hear better than my wife now, which drives her nuts. She went from constantly demanding that I turn things down to demanding that I turn things up. I heard 20khz for the first time, granted it was at 95db.

    The tubes will fall out on their own, with the hole healing on its own. The idea is that the function of eustachian tube will return to normal through the process. If it doesn't, then I have to weigh the option of another round of tubes or a more radical/invasive approach.

    At this point, I can't imagine going back to the way I was.
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  23. #23
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    While on the subject of human falibility what about the eyes?
    Anybody here ever tried lasik?
    SEEMS like if you paid megabucks for a HT you'd want to be able to see it without glasses
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    I've thought about lasik surgery on occasion, but insurance won't pay for it. I know many doctors have payment plans but when it comes right down to it, I don't need to see any clearer how overweight and out of shape I am.

  25. #25
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    While on the subject of human falibility what about the eyes?
    Anybody here ever tried lasik?
    SEEMS like if you paid megabucks for a HT you'd want to be able to see it without glasses
    There is a huge difference between needing corrective hearing surgery and elective corrective vision surgery.

    How would wearing glasses affect watching a movie? Your comment needs clarification.
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