Poor Man's Shangri la

[jb3838]

Hi All,

I am a lover of music, but by no means a dedicated audiophile. I have just finished graduate school and am looking to purchase a stereo to celebrate my return to earning paychecks. I would use the system primarily for listening to music. My musical tastes are extremely broad, so I'm not looking to maximize a particular sound range. Additionally, I want something that will sound good in a variety of rooms as I may move in the next few years. My music will mostly be sourced from MP3's, but also occasionally from CD's and vinyl.

Cost is an absolute issue for me. I want to piece together something via Ebay purchases and audioclassics.com. This is a low budget high value proposition. The idea is two get to bookshelf speakers w/ stands and a receiver. I had always lusted after the Bose 901's, but have read nothing but bad reviews from those in the know. It seems that the highly rated B&W DCM 602 S3's can be had for around $300 used. Is there a cheap receiver that would compliment those?

I'd appreciate any speaker and receiver combo suggestions. The alternative is getting something for $500-600 at Best Buy.
After two years of listening to my music through laptop speakers I need an improvement.

Thanks.

[bobsticks]

Kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place financially but still want some good sound. It's a bit hard not knowing the room and your preferences but if it were me I would keep my eyes on these two auctions with the third as a consilation pick.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/Monitor-Audio-MA...QQcmdZViewItem

Again, this would be IMO a great starter kit but there's nothing wrong with the Barnes and Wilkins. It might be that a more modern receiver would give you more flexability with hook-ups,but I feel the marantz would provide a better amp section.

In any case, there's lots of good stuff out there and be sure to tell us how it works out.

[jim goulding]

Audiogon is the main site for used equipment. You might want to scroll there. Bookshelf speakers will give you the most flexibility and you can listen to them pretty close up if their drivers are reasonably close together. I think everybody here is going to tell you to put them on 24" aftermarket speaker stands, however, if you expect to get an in room recreation of the recorded event. Bookshelf speakers with 6.5" mid/bass drivers will give you more bottom end than a 5".

A customer of mine is raving about some $300+ speakers for computer listening and he owns quite a few pair of high end speakers for comparison. I'll get the name for you and others here and post after awhile. Another fellow tells me he has downloaded 2,700 albums over the past three years and listens exclusively this way altho he feeds into his full frequency response 4 channel system. I think there are some guys here that may do this, too. I'm hoping to learn more myself.

Cheers.

[Feanor]

Hi All,

I am a lover of music, but by no means a dedicated audiophile. I have just finished graduate school and am looking to purchase a stereo to celebrate my return to earning paychecks. I would use the system primarily for listening to music. My musical tastes are extremely broad, so I'm not looking to maximize a particular sound range. Additionally, I want something that will sound good in a variety of rooms as I may move in the next few years. My music will mostly be sourced from MP3's, but also occasionally from CD's and vinyl.

Cost is an absolute issue for me. I want to piece together something via Ebay purchases and audioclassics.com. This is a low budget high value proposition. The idea is two get to bookshelf speakers w/ stands and a receiver. I had always lusted after the Bose 901's, but have read nothing but bad reviews from those in the know. It seems that the highly rated B&W DCM 602 S3's can be had for around $300 used. Is there a cheap receiver that would compliment those?

I'd appreciate any speaker and receiver combo suggestions. The alternative is getting something for $500-600 at Best Buy.
After two years of listening to my music through laptop speakers I need an improvement.

Thanks.

First, what's the size of room where you expect to play your new system? If it's larger that middle-middle that could change the recommendations.

Secondly, you mention stereo by which I guess you mean 2 channel, not multi-channel. Otherwise that will affect recommendations.

Thirdly, you mention MP3. That's fine, but bear in mind that quality of system to play adequate to play 128bps isn't adequate to fully exploit higher resolutions or lossless. Yes, you can immediately hear the difference on a half-decent system.

The B&Ws you mention are a pretty good bet, although there are plenty of options.

As for a second hand receiver, that's a bit complicated. If you don't expect to use it for home theatre, then you don't need to worry about the latest/greatest Dolby or DTS mode. On thing to look for, though, is a "direct" mode, that is, the ability to play from source without digital processing. This is a feature often missing in the lowest price models.

[basite]

I will second sticks' suggestion.
that marantz will own anything they sell at BB...

Keep them spinning,
Bert

[markw]

Are you looking at straight two channel or keeping an eye open to a future multi-channel system?

Obviously, you'll get more bang for your musical dollar with a strictly two-channel system, particularly if you include good condition vintage equipment in your search.

Of course, you may have to get used to manual control, though. No remotes on vintage..

[jb3838]

Thanks for the great suggestions! Yes, I do plan to keep it two channel. While I'll watch the occasional movie, music is my concern. From an aesthetic and cost standpoint vintage equipment really appeals to me. Doesn't one need to be very careful of degradation to the foam, etc?

As for room size I remain non-committal. I'd like to have something versatile, with a mid-sized room in mind. I want something I can keep for years and move with me. Thanks again.

[dingus]

depending on your area, garage sales could be the most cost effective resource, and dont forget about craigslist ... i've outfitted about 2/3rd's of my 3 systems very inexpensively through craigs. the rest came by way of ebay with a couple of pieces via audiogon. once in a very great while BB and the like will have a close out on something worthwhile, but for the most part i would stay the hell out there.

there is nothing wrong with Bose 901's, as long as you prefer that type of sound, but most would say (myself included) you could do better. if you can find some high efficiency speakers, i would highly recommend the Trends Audio TA-10.1 t-amp. around $150 to your door with dynamite sound from only 15wpc. no other amp at this price point (that i know of) can deliver a sound as refined as the TA-10.1.

[jim goulding]

The name and model of those speakers I referred to earlier is Audio Engine A5. They are $375 list for a pair and use a 4" mid/woof and are baffleless if I understood my customer right.
He says they are smooth and detailed and go surprisingly deep. They are self-powered. He adores them.

[SlumpBuster]

I like the ideas so far.

"Grad school" can mean many things financially. If you just received your masters in creative writing, that is one thing. If you received your PhD in theoretical mathmatics and are going to work for a defense contractor, then that is another. Alot of us around here have been in the same boat, at least I know I have. Recent grad, mountain of debt, ect. ect. Don't despair. Based on your stated goals and openness to everyones suggestions, plus your reference to vinyl, I predict in a couple of years you'll probably be spending $600 on speaker cables.

So here is my suggestion. Spend it all on speakers: Specifically the Magnepan MMG http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG Order direct for $550. They come up on ebay and audiogon but go fast and don't depreciate too much. Here's one. But you should be able to save at least $100-150 buying used. When you are ready to upgrade speakers, you'll be able to get out of the Maggies most of what you put in.

Then take Bobsticks advice and get a nice 70s era reciever. I would not limit myself to Marrantz, but also include Pioneer, Kenwood, Yamaha, Sansui. If you want to get daring you can find some real hidden gems with Akai, Nikko, and Mitsubishi. You should be able to get a nice powerful reciever for less than $100. Just make sure that it has no static in any of the controls. Becareful with the ebay sellers. Audiogon seems better sometimes: Look at this tasty combo: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1199932011

Good luck.

[thekid]

As almost all of my recent post show I have become a thrift store addict and would second an earlier suggestion to look there as well, especially if you are looking only for a 2-channel set-up. IMO since HT has become the standard there is a lot of older gear out there that people have just given away because there is either not a market for it or they don't want to go through the hassle of selling it on their own. I would get a good idea what you are looking for though before going out. I missed out on a very sweet deal a couple of weeks ago because I did not recognize what I was looking at when I came across it.

The thrift stores in my area and hopefully yours as well do a good job in making sure the equipment works before putting it on the floor and all of them have been fine with me "hooking" them up in the store prior to purchase. There is usually enough speakers or other equipment right there that you can use to make sure everything works. You might want to put a pair of cheap speaker wire in your pocket to use to hook up speakers or use as a make shift antena when checking out receiver's

[jb3838]

Hi, sorry I haven't given an update. Life has been consuming as of late. I checked on the Maggies and am throughly enamored. I like the concept of the thin speaker and they come highly recommended on this and other sites. The hang up is which vintage amp to buy. All the reviews state the importance of feeding them with sufficient power. How many amps of vintage supplied power will they need to truly sing? Assuming I stick with a Marrantz amp, what specifications apart of watts per channel should I consider. Thanks! I'll give a full update when all is said and done.

[HeadphoneAddict]

I am no expert, but I think 80-100 watts per channel with a large damping factor will be good for those.

See http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz...ingfactor.html

[Maggies]

Oddly enough, just this afternoon I was comparing a mint pair of 901 series IIs I picked up at the thrift store to the Magnepan MMGs I have had for four years. At first, I was somewhat impressed by the unique soundfield of the 901s, but when switching back and forth between the 901s and MMGs, there was simply no comparison. The vocals on the 901's sound gawd awful in comparison the the MMG's. Truthfully, I'll be glad to be rid of the 901's.

As for the MMs, they are simply stunning. There is no better value in the audio universe for $550 (with free shipping, no sales tax). For anything acoustic, I would put these head to head with any system, regardless of price. When I bought these, my old roomate was a audiofile dealer, and I regularly had people compare my sub $1000 system to his $50k in demo gear. I think I cost him a few sales, as pretty much everyone was blown away by the little system that could.

Power: These are some fairly power hungry speakers. The best sounding amp I have hooked up was a 1978 Pioneer SX-1250. That amp has balls, and really brought out the best in the MMGs. Second to that was my regular NAD T760, until , like its brother the 260, it crapped out on me. I recently picked up a Marantz 2045 (45 watts per channel) that is giving the NAD a run for its money. I would have no hesitation recommending it to drive the MMGs, or anything else for that matter. The worst sounding amp was a modern Sony 80w/ch. I don't know how they measured 80 watts, but I don't think they used the same equipment that Marantz did with their 45 watts. I had to crank it to 8/10 just to get decent listening levels.

Bottom line, buy the MMGs and scour the thrift shops and craigslist for an old silverface amp. You will not regret it. You will spend weeks listening to your entire music collection, repeatedly, and marveling at all the detail you never knew existed. They do take a couple days of listening to fully "break in" the (mylar is a little tight when they ship), but right out of the box you will still be blown away.

[jb3838]

Hi Gang,

I've decided to purchase the Maggies brand new. The free shipping really removes any advantage to buying them used. In the end, the price differential would be about 100 bucks, and I think it's more than worth it for new.

So now my situation becomes tracking down a vintage Marantz receiver. Audiogon prices are really steep and Ebay is proving to be similar. The general consensus is that these speakers need watts to drive them. The 65-70 watt receivers on Ebay seem to be going for about $300. At this price are there any new receivers that could offer comparable performance for driving the MMG's?

Thanks for all the advice and patience. I just bought a new car, so the expenses have been piling up quickly. But now my attention is focused squarely on moving beyond my laptop speakers!

[jb3838]

Looking at Amazon.com, they are selling the Denon AVR 1707 for $227. Would this best a $250-300+ Marantz? Thanks.

[jim goulding]

jb- I'm not a Maggie owner but have known a few and maybe you should check what I'm about to say with some of the guys who are, but I think Mags like a lot of power!! I'm thinking 70 to 85 watts is in the minimum range. Anybody?

[jb3838]

While I liked the idea of going vintage, the price advantage seems to be eroding quickly. A new model would not only have a remote, but have the ability to add additional speakers in other rooms should I some day desire.
Amazon has the Marantz SR-4021 and SR4001 used in the $250+ range, both packing 80 watts.
If I go new, how do I decipher the alphabet soup? Price and watts being equal, what should I look at? Thanks.

[bobsticks]

Well, first and foremost, congrats on the new speaker purchase. Maggies are so well known and for good reason. What a great way to start in this hobby--remember that they take a second to break in and a sub may be optimal (though hardly necessary) for some of the more "rawking" stuff.

What to power it with? Hhhmm...

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENON-PMA-700V-I...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/FLAGSHIP-SANSUI-...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ONKYO-Integra-A-...QQcmdZViewItem
or

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROTEL-RA-985BX-I...QQcmdZViewItem

I'm not a huge vintage guy but I truly believe you'll get the best bang-for-the-buck from a vintage amp. Continued luck...

[jb3838]

For the conclusion:

I want to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and opinions. They definitely influenced and guided my purchases. I ended up with a new pair of MMG Maggies and last night bought a remanufactured Harmon Kardon 3485 receiver from ebay for $162.50 plus shipping. In the future I'd like to move towards seperate components, but for now I couldn't be happier. I just have to wait to get it all assembled.

Thanks and Happy Holidays.

[blackraven]

Good choice. You will be much better off with the HK receiver than the Marantz for those speakers considering their power requirement and the fact that they are 4ohm.

If you ever decide to get a sub, consider a non ported sub. Non ported subs tend to sound better with Maggies. Martin Logan makes a nice non ported sub called the dynamo for about $600.

[melvin walker]

Hi All,

I am a lover of music, but by no means a dedicated audiophile. I have just finished graduate school and am looking to purchase a stereo to celebrate my return to earning paychecks. I would use the system primarily for listening to music. My musical tastes are extremely broad, so I'm not looking to maximize a particular sound range. Additionally, I want something that will sound good in a variety of rooms as I may move in the next few years. My music will mostly be sourced from MP3's, but also occasionally from CD's and vinyl.

Cost is an absolute issue for me. I want to piece together something via Ebay purchases and audioclassics.com. This is a low budget high value proposition. The idea is two get to bookshelf speakers w/ stands and a receiver. I had always lusted after the Bose 901's, but have read nothing but bad reviews from those in the know. It seems that the highly rated B&W DCM 602 S3's can be had for around $300 used. Is there a cheap receiver that would compliment those?

I'd appreciate any speaker and receiver combo suggestions. The alternative is getting something for $500-600 at Best Buy.
After two years of listening to my music through laptop speakers I need an improvement.

Thanks.

Bose 901's are not bad speakers , audiophiles are not happy with Bose but the general public is. Your taste in music will determine what speakers you should buy. Ebay is a much better value than Best Buy.
Please don't buy great speakers and a cheap receiver , audio is much like a chain , the listening quality of the system is determined by the weakest link. Would you buy a car with a great engine and a weak transmission ?

Buy the speaker that you enjoy listening to , not someone else's suggestion. Please
don't buy a cheap receiver , if you do you will never hear just how good your speakers are.
A receiver is like a glass of water , the better the receiver the clearer the water.