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  1. #1
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    UPS instead of AC POWER?

    Does anybody here use UPS to power your audio gears, or know anybody who does?

    I was wondering if I can achieve audible improvement when used with a phono preamp?

    Also, I've never been around one of these so I dont have a clue how noisy they are.

    Any ideas?

    JRA

  2. #2
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Does anybody here use UPS to power your audio gears, or know anybody who does?

    I was wondering if I can achieve audible improvement when used with a phono preamp?

    Also, I've never been around one of these so I dont have a clue how noisy they are.

    Any ideas?

    JRA
    I think you are confusing "uninterrupted power supplies" with power regenerators. Most UPS units simply provide battery backup against AC failure. My main desktop computer is so protected. 99.9% of the time, however, it just passes through the AC. Regenerators, however, are effectively switching amplifiers that literally rebuild the AC. Many claim benefits though I have no experience with said.

    It also depends upon the nature of what you are trying to correct. Because of their high gain, phono preamps are more sensitive to external components. Isolation, both physically and electrically is recommended. If you have nearby digital devices such as CDPs, cable boxes, TiVOs, etc., then I would recommend trying out a power conditioner at the very least as they filter the RFI fed into the house AC. Such is manifest by an added brightness, edge or false detail in the high frequencies.

    rw

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    You could always try a battery powered phono pre-amp.

    http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...Title_ID=35533
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  4. #4
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Thanks for your reply

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    IMost UPS units simply provide battery backup against AC failure.

    rw
    But isnt most of on-line UPS good enough to power phono preamps for a couple of hours?

    My idea was to isolate my phono pre completely from AC Power Line. I imagine Surge Suppresor/Conditioner will be just as good, and possible offer more steady power supply.

    JRA

  5. #5
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    You could always try a battery powered phono pre-amp.

    http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...Title_ID=35533
    That's the same basic idea I was getting at, while keeping my tubes. I'm not afraid to go with SS or Battery Powered phonostage, but will have to add more tubes somewhere else.

    I wonder which brand would sound better. Duracell or Energizer?

    JRA

  6. #6
    Forum Regular budgetaudio76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    That's the same basic idea I was getting at, while keeping my tubes. I'm not afraid to go with SS or Battery Powered phonostage, but will have to add more tubes somewhere else.

    I wonder which brand would sound better. Duracell or Energizer?

    JRA

    this is some funny stuff. like buying like buying a particular material (weight) to isolate vibrations

  7. #7
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    But isnt most of on-line UPS good enough to power phono preamps for a couple of hours?
    Well sure. If you disconnect the UPS from the AC before use, that would work. Turn off the annoying beeper otherwise it will continually remind you it has no power. You would need to plug it back in afterwards to recharge the batteries for the next session.

    rw

  8. #8
    Forum Regular aevans's Avatar
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    most of the larger UPS's actually buffer the AC to make sure that it is clean.. also take out any brown outs/small surges.. only problem I can see is that they may end up addiing noise to the system while they charge the battery packs just from RF interferance.

    http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...otal_watts=200
    Full time multi-pole noise filtering : 5% IEEE surge let-through : zero clamping response time : meets UL 1449

  9. #9
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    AC regenerators like any other product vary a lot in quality and line noise. Elgar has been at it for decades. At least one forum member uses one, he bought 5KW(?) used for a few hundred dollars. They are big and fan cooled, I wouldn't want one in my listening room, but no reason they couldn't be remotely located.

    They might make a tiny one suitable only for a phono stage, but I'm guessing a quality phono stage design will be quieter overall than an AC regenerator powering an AC powered phono stage. Double check for sine wave output waveform.

    http://www.elgaracpowersupplies.com/...ave-elgar.html
    Herman;

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  10. #10
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    revisited:

    I got a free UPS from a company that is going out of business.
    APC ES 650

    http://www.apcc.com/products/resourc...otal_watts=200

    I was excited to hear how my phono pre would turn out with battery sourced power.

    Gear:
    VTL TP-2.5
    Decware ZMC-2 with Sowther Step up Transformer (Soon to be upgraded).
    APC ES 650 (only phono pre plugged in)

    As soon as I turned it on, I started to hear LOUD buzzing from my speakers.
    I wasn't sure what was going on, so before turning the device off, I was checking all connection and the source of this noise. Turns out, power tranny from my phono pre was buzzing louder than my speakers. Soon after that I had tuned off all power.
    I will not make another attempt to try this setup, and am now hesitant to acquire a power regenerator.

    What do you guys think happened here?

    Faulty device would be an easy answer, but there must be other reasons. I've tried a computer and LCD screen before making this attempt, but nothing unusual had been detected. Not even a flicker on my LCD screen.
    I guess crazy things happen when a source is amplified by over 1000X

    JRA,

  11. #11
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    I have my doubts about the quality of the AC computer UPS's produce. They are designed to power the switching power supplies PC's use. A clean low noise AC signal is probably not a priority with them. If you have an O-Scope handy you could look at the AC wave form the UPS produces.
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  12. #12
    Forum Regular frahengeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    revisited:

    I got a free UPS from a company that is going out of business.
    APC ES 650

    http://www.apcc.com/products/resourc...otal_watts=200

    I was excited to hear how my phono pre would turn out with battery sourced power.

    Gear:
    VTL TP-2.5
    Decware ZMC-2 with Sowther Step up Transformer (Soon to be upgraded).
    APC ES 650 (only phono pre plugged in)

    As soon as I turned it on, I started to hear LOUD buzzing from my speakers.
    I wasn't sure what was going on, so before turning the device off, I was checking all connection and the source of this noise. Turns out, power tranny from my phono pre was buzzing louder than my speakers. Soon after that I had tuned off all power.
    I will not make another attempt to try this setup, and am now hesitant to acquire a power regenerator.

    What do you guys think happened here?

    Faulty device would be an easy answer, but there must be other reasons. I've tried a computer and LCD screen before making this attempt, but nothing unusual had been detected. Not even a flicker on my LCD screen.
    I guess crazy things happen when a source is amplified by over 1000X

    JRA,
    It does sound like a faulty device...

    APC also makes a device specifically geared toward home audio. http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...m?base_sku=H15

    This particular unit is a power conditioners/Voltage Regulators, but they also carry a power conditioners/voltage regulator/battery backup (All-in-One) units. It carries an extremely high price tage, however.

    If you're interested, Tigerdirect has the H15 for ~$200.00. Much more cost effective than their competitors (Panamax, Monster etc.) I'm happy with mine. Its very well built.

    Something like this is maybe what you are looking for.
    It's a disease, really.
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  13. #13
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Two possible guesses;

    The cheapest and easiest way to regenerate a 60 Hz waveform is with a square wave. While a square wave is perfectly legitimate in terms of transferring power, transformers on the whole prefer the smooth edges of a sine wave and could easily become mechanically noisy with a square wave..

    One other possibility is that the regenerator can do both 50 and 60 Hz. If set to 50 and used with a transformer designed for 60, transformer buzzing is most likely.

    Unlike most audio gear, modern computers use switching supplies they are relatively immune to input waveform shape.

    You know what they say about the proverbial "free lunch".
    Herman;

    My stuff:
    Olive Musica/transport and server
    Mark Levinson No.360S D to A
    Passive pre (homemade; Shallco, Vishay, Cardas wire/connectors)
    Cardas Golden Presence IC
    Pass Labs X250
    Martin Logan ReQuests.

  14. #14
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    usually bad shaped waves causes transformers to make buzzzzzzzz noise

  15. #15
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    UPS's do indeed produce a square wave when on battery...not a sine wave. Not good for audio equipment.

  16. #16
    music whore Happy Camper's Avatar
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    Ixnay on the UPSa. Get an isolation transformer for digital devices filtering. Use a power cable for your amp directly from the wall.
    d HC b

  17. #17
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    "Free lunch" or not, it's as good as no lunch.
    I just use the unit as Surge Protector for my gear. I would rather protect my gear than to gain minimal improvements/differences in fidelity by plugging straight to a socket.
    Since the time of this original thread, I've gone to use Step-Up-Transformers between my TT and Phono pre.
    They offer exactly what I'm looking for, and the noise in from my phono-pre is no longer an issue. Now, I just simply enjoy music. Thanks for all the replies.

    JRA

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