System Problem

I just bought a Technics TT yesterday. Still in the original box, still in the originally packaging. Never used.

I just connected it to the phono input on my preamp, and when I tried to play a record, no sound was getting through to the speakers. I usually play my music through my computer, so I know its not a problem with the power amp.

Can anyone give me any clue to what might be wrong/how I can fix it?

Thanks.

Dear Ssarm,

Your posts will always be welcomed in Analoge section.

First make sure you have it connected to phono-in again with groundwire grounded.
What type of cartridge do you have? As long as you have high-output Moving Magnet (MM) cartridge you should be fine. You may also use high-output MC cartridge.
I've never heard of Technic SL-5200. But I'm wondering if it has phono pre build in. If it does you should be able to hear more than anybody you like.

Check your Cartridge wiring on your tonearm/headshell.
How about posting pictures of your tonearm/cart and your TT?

-JRA

I don't have a digital camara with me. The cartridge is a M95HE.

I don't think its a problem with the turntable. I had one at home, and I had the same problem when I tried to play a record: the TT would seem to be running fine, but no signal would be getting to the speakers.

Is there anyway I can inspect my pre-amp to see if something is wrong? I tried to call adcom, but they aren't open on weekends.

Thanks

Here is one way I know how to check.
Just plug it into your other input, like CD or AUX. turn it up as much as you can. you should be able to hear "slight" sound. If you can, then it's not your TT. Also, I believe your Adcom phono stage has maximum of 43db gain.

-JRA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrhymeammo

Here is one way I know how to check.
Just plug it into your other input, like CD or AUX. turn it up as much as you can. you should be able to hear "slight" sound. If you can, then it's not your TT.

-JRA

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If it turns oit it it the Adcom, there's really not much you can do to fix it yourself. IT's not like replacing a tube or the like.

Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markw

If it turns oit it it the Adcom, there's really not much you can do to fix it yourself. IT's not like replacing a tube or the like.

Good luck.

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Thanks you MarkW.
Like you said, there is nothing we can do to help fix his Adcom(if it's broken). Playing his TT thru CD input will determine if his Technic has faulty wiring.
You cartirdge output should be just strong enough for you to faintly hear music thru your speakers.

I didn't hear any sound coming out of the other inputs (CD, Tuner). I plugged into my signal processor in, which i use for my computer line, and its working.

Can I get a connector that will let me run both the computer line and the phono line into the signal processor in, so I don't have to constantly change them?

Thanks.


EDIT: the sound sounds overly bright, I can't hear any bass even with the equalizer knob maxed out. I would think this is happening cause the TT isn't plugged into the phono input?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

EDIT: the sound sounds overly bright, I can't hear any bass even with the equalizer knob maxed out. I would think this is happening cause the TT isn't plugged into the phono input?

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You are correct. What you are hearing is what a magnetic cartridge sounds like when played through a line level (non phono preamp) input.

You've isolated the problem. The Turntable/cartridge is working fine. The phono preamp in the Adcom is not.

He tried it through the phono input and another input and it didn't work but he tried it through the processor bypass and it worked, keep in mind the processor bypass goes directly to the power amp and would have much more gain that way than any of his other inputs. I'm not familiar with that preamp but just because an input says "phono" doesn't necessarily mean it has a phono stage built in. I'd try playing your computer or CD player through the phono input to see what happens. Either way you know the TT works and it would probably be cheaper and better sound to buy an outboard phono stage than have your preamp fixed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

I'm not familiar with that preamp but just because an input says "phono" doesn't necessarily mean it has a phono stage built in.

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I would be very surprised by this and, IMNSHO, would think this was misleading and verges on false advertising.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Either way you know the TT works and it would probably be cheaper and better sound to buy an outboard phono stage than have your preamp fixed.

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This also is an option. They start at about $25 and go up from there, but better sound" could wind up costing a pretty penny.

Edit: It does have a built in phono stage:

SPECIFICATIONS:

Total harmonic distortion: 0.005%
IM distortion: 0.005%
Signal to noise ratio:

Phone (re 0 .5 ): > 85 dB
Tuner, CD, Tape (re 2 V output): > 100dB
Tone Controls:

Bass (40 Hz) 9.5dB
Treble (15 kHz) 9.5 dB
Contour (switchable): + 6dB at 50 Hz
Frequency response: 1 Hz - 100 kHz o.1 dB
High filter (switchable): -2.5 dB at 20kHz (6dB/octave)
Low filter (switchable): - 6dB at 20 Hz (6dB/octave)
Input sensitivity for 0.5V output


Phono High MC/MM: 0.4 mV
Phono Low MC: 0.13 mV
High: 40 mV
Maximum output level: 10 volts
Input impedance:
High MC/MM: 47 kohms
Low MC: 100 ohms
Output impedance: 470 ohms
Phono overload at 1 kHz High MC/MM: 140mV
Phono input capacitance: Adjustable; 100 pF, 175 pF, 275 pF

Line voltage: 120V/60 Hz (Available in 230V/50 Hz on special order)
Dimensions: 17" x 3 1/4" x 12 3/4" D(432 mm x 83 mm x 324 mm D)
Weight: 14 lbs (6.4 kg)


Hint: You might want to explore this "high/Low" thing before giving up hope. Play around, check the manual, explore the rear panel, whatever...

http://www.adcom.com/data/manuals/gfp555manual.pdf

Dear Ssarm,

I'm gonna go thru this like you are 5 year old. I like to do this to make sure we have all the information. It is not my intension to treat you like one. So let's go thru this for your sake.

Go to page 4 on this manual.

First thing as manual states.
"Turn power off before changing phono setting"
okay, everything is off.

-You have TT's wire grounded to 1, right?
-Do you have TT's RCAs pluged into 2?
-Since you have HIgh output MM cart, be sure it is set to that on 2.

Your Listening knob next to your volume knob is aimed at 12 'O clock.

Also, I really dont think it'll do anything but unplug anything that is connect to Tape-OUT.

Turn on your preamp and see what happens.

-JRA

You guys have been a great help, but unfortunately I think the phono is dead on my preamp.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-S...ERPRICE&range=

Should I pick up the Btech (50) or the Bellari (76), run my TT through that, and run the output of the phono-preamp into my "signal processor in" on my adcom preamp?

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

You guys have been a great help, but unfortunately I think the phono is dead on my preamp.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-S...ERPRICE&range=

Should I pick up the Btech (50) or the Bellari (76), run my TT through that, and run the output of the phono-preamp into my "signal processor in" on my adcom preamp?

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I'm glad you posted before making your Purchase.

Bellari VP29 is the worst audio product ever made in last 100 years. Please take my word seriously.
THE WORST!!!!!!
That product was rarely available before Bellari VP129 hit the scene.
Shame on Jerry Raskin for even selling that product!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nono:

Also, I dont have experience with other onw you mentioned. Based on specs, I would advise you to stay away from it.

http://buy0.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?preaphon&1&ctg&st1

If you are on sub $80 budget then you should keep your eye on Audiogon. This is too late, but will give you some ideas. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....hon&1163904643

Just you give you a better idea of Bellari VP29

I briefly use it with Paradigm Monitor 5s, Rotel receiver, and Pioneer PL-1000w/ Grado Green.
It will sound like you punched holes in your drivers and played your speakers facing down on your carpet.

I am not exaggerating.

-JRA

If you use an outboard phono stage don't run it through your processor in, use one of your other inputs. You can't control the volume when using that processor input can you?

I'm not sure what they are used but the Creek OBH-8 is a good little phono stage. They are about $180.00 new.

Thanks again.

I run my computer line through the processor in, and I am able to control the volume on both my computer and the pre-amp. My original thought process was that I could just get 2 2-1 splitters, and run both the computer line and output line from the phono-preamp into my adcom preamp.

What are some specs I should look for in a good phono preamp? I would like to buy used/new for around $100. I know it won't be superior quality, but I'm kind of strapped for cash right now.

And just so I know, about how much would it cost to get the adcom unit fixed up? I plan on calling adcom tomorrow, but if you guys have a rough idea, it be helpful.

Thanks a lot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

I run my computer line through the processor in, and I am able to control the volume on both my computer and the pre-amp. My original thought process was that I could just get 2 2-1 splitters, and run both the computer line and output line from the phono-preamp into my adcom preamp.

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Forget the signal processor and splitter idea. Trust me on this. Simply use a regiular line in on the preamp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

What are some specs I should look for in a good phono preamp? I would like to buy used/new for around $100. I know it won't be superior quality, but I'm kind of strapped for cash right now.

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For that price you won't get too much choice. NAD is supposed to put out a decent one for a little over $100 or so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

And just so I know, about how much would it cost to get the adcom unit fixed up? I plan on calling adcom tomorrow, but if you guys have a rough idea, it be helpful.

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For this, you would need to contact a technician. You might google for tech who do this and ask them. Some charge a flat rate plus parts. Radio Shack does and they might be worth a visit to find out.

If your strapped it may be worth getting a quote for a fix. Your processor loop must not be what I thought it was. Most processor loops will link the front 2 channels of a surround source directly to the power amp and by everything else in the preamp including volume control.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

If your strapped it may be worth getting a quote for a fix. Your processor loop must not be what I thought it was. Most processor loops will link the front 2 channels of a surround source directly to the power amp and by everything else in the preamp including volume control.

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In my experience, "External Processor Loops" are essentially the same as tape monitor loops in that they take a line level signal, of a constant level, right after source selection, send it out to an equalizer or some such, and return it into the signal path just before the volume control.

Of course, tape monitors can generally be controlled by a switch like a tape monitor. in my MAD 1600 ther's a switch labelled "EPL" ...not here though. You need interconnects.

You are right but when he said "external processor" my brain was thinking "processor bypass". This is sort of a direct path to the power amp section. I used my Krell integrated as a slave for my HT processor L/R front. More and more integrated and stereo preamps are offering the "bypass" as they realize many want better stereo playback and tie their systems together.

I have an old Kenwood integrated with one of those "external processing" loops. That answers how the volume still works but now I am puzzled again as to why the turntable would play through the loop but not a normal input. Unless, there's a problem with more inputs than just the phono.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

You are right but when he said "external processor" my brain was thinking "processor bypass". This is sort of a direct path to the power amp section. I used my Krell integrated as a slave for my HT processor L/R front. More and more integrated and stereo preamps are offering the "bypass" as they realize many want better stereo playback and tie their systems together.

I have an old Kenwood integrated with one of those "external processing" loops. That answers how the volume still works but now I am puzzled again as to why the turntable would play through the loop but not a normal input. Unless, there's a problem with more inputs than just the phono.

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The way I read it was that it played in that shrill, tinny way it did on the other line level inputs, and that makes perfect sense. If he used the processor loop as an inpuit (and many use "tape in" for additional line level inputs), it would bypass any existing internal phono preamp.

Read Ssarms post from 9/23 6:15, he says, "I didn't hear output from other inputs (cd, tuner)".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Read Ssarms post from 9/23 6:15, he says, "I didn't hear output from other inputs (cd, tuner)".

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...particularly his edit, which appears to have been added 09-24-2006 at 12:27 AM. .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssarms@mac.com

EDIT: the sound sounds overly bright, I can't hear any bass even with the equalizer knob maxed out. I would think this is happening cause the TT isn't plugged into the phono input?

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I still don't see where you get there was sound from anywhere except the processor loop. It looks to me like he is describing the sound he did hear from the processor loop. It don't really matter now anyway. Maybe Ssarm would be so kind as to clarify for me.

The sound I was describing was only coming from the processor loop.

I got a few quotes from adcom recommended service shops, and I'm probably going to take it to one tomorrow to get it fixed. Even if it's a few extra bux, which it might not even be, I'de rather get the pre-amp fixed than make everything more complicated with an external phono preamp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

The sound I was describing was only coming from the processor loop.

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Is this preamp new to you? Have any of this preamp's line level inputs ever worked for you with any other source, say a tuner or a CD player?

If you haven't tried them before, try them now.

If you say none of them work, then I might have an idea.

In the meantime, you might want to re-read all of page four in the owner's manual and also post 19 in this thread to see if you can figure out for yourself where I'm going with this. I'm pretty sure you've got all the information you need to solve your problem if you just read and think a little.

You mean the part where it says he has to have jumpers in place? Good call.

not sure what you are getting at.

I called an adcom service dealer and said that they would probably be able to repair the unit for anywhere from 30-120+, with around 100+ more likely. Assuming nothing large is wrong, it should be cheaper than buying a good external phono-preamp. I think I'm gonna take it in on thursday or friday evening and have them check it out.

unless you have figured out a miracle solution, of course :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

not sure what you are getting at.

I called an adcom service dealer and said that they would probably be able to repair the unit for anywhere from 30-120+, with around 100+ more likely. Assuming nothing large is wrong, it should be cheaper than buying a good external phono-preamp. I think I'm gonna take it in on thursday or friday evening and have them check it out.

unless you have figured out a miracle solution, of course :)

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Getting your phono stage fixed would be wise when you are looking ro sell your Adcom. But if I read correctly, you are getting fixed for 130+ to 220++? hmmmmmm, if your budget was about 100 bucks more, I may say something else, but by the time you figure out the actual cost after inspection you are already in too deep.

Best wishes,

-JRA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

not sure what you are getting at...unless you have figured out a miracle solution, of course :)

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Actually, Mark has. On page 4 of the manual, notice it says:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adcom

Please note that the GFP-555 will not function properly unless a signal processor or the supplied jumpers are connected between the inputs and outputs of this circuit to complete the loop.

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Take a pair of interconnects, and plug them from the outputs to the inputs, left-to-left, right-to-right. Plug your turntable back into the phono input, and set the other two settings appropriately. Turn volume all the way down. Power on. Start a record playing. Turn volume up until you hear the record playing. Enjoy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

unless you have figured out a miracle solution, of course :)

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If following well laid out clues, reading a little, and using one's head to think and solve a problem is considered a miracle, then I guess it is. I just call it using my head and what's available.

Did you do the reading assignments? I doubt it. The owner's manual was a godsend but I doubt you even read it. I see at least two other posters picked up on the clues, did the required legwork and came to the same conclusion I was leading you towards, even one that posted right before your most recent post to whicht I'm responding here. If you couldn't pick up on that, well...

Of course, this is no guarantee the phono preamp still isn't dead, but at least it would fix the other inputs and, odds are the phono stage will fall right into line.

Ya gotta try to help yourself a little, kid. Learn to read and understand your owner's manual and, if you don't have one, and someone provides one for you (as in post 11 here), always print it out, read it and understand it. It's your first line of defense.

...to chime in...Tried to access the Adcom site the other day to check the manual but didn't get too far...Heck I wooda thunk jumpers or a switch affair was a given thing to check...

D@mn...this has been a complaint of mine from time to time...everybody wants it handed to 'em on a silver platter...can't be bothered with the manuals (assuming one is available)...can't even be bothered with paying attention to the responses and doing some follow-up...

And then people get p!$$ed at me when I make the horrible suggestion that the OP look at the book or use their head for something other than a place to stick a backwards ball cap...acting as though I'm not willing to help...

Then to top it off, there are the responders who have a habit of making mountains out of molehills...IT AIN"T ROCKET SCIENCE...Maybe it's my intuitive abilities after nearly forty years as troubleshooter, but all it takes is some common sense and an understanding of the basics...

Multiple oliversudden troubles usually have a relatively simple common cause...it's the little independent ones that come along and nickel and dime you to death that are the biggest PITA...

Always apply the KISS principle, you'll never go wrong...

jimHJJ(...rant over...you can all turn around and face forward...)

P.S. And then, of course, we may have the errant Tape Mon switch...

P.P.S. Just for the record, I have run across some gear that have a Phono postion on the selector switch but it is in name only. They require an extra-cost option module for the basic RIAA characteristics etc. in addition to a step-up device if you're using an MC cart...otherwise they are line-level inputs...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Resident Loser

...to chime in...Tried to access the Adcom site the other day to check the manual but didn't get too far...

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Actually, jrhymeammo was kind enough to do the legwork and post a link to the owner's manual in post 11 of this thread. Had he not been so kind to do so, the solution would have escaped me also.

If I were this poster and didn't have an owners manual and someone handed it to me on a silver platter, the first thing I would have done is print it out. The second thing I would have done is read it. It isn't a hard read. The answer was right there on page four under "External Processor".

I think what really plunked my magic twanger here was that after Mr. Meammo went through all the trouble to make the owner's manual available (at no charge) to the kid, he didn't even bother to read it. The fact that he wasn't forthcoming that none of the inputs worked was just an added bonus. And, the icing on the cake was when he didn't even bother to try to comprehend my first post on this page.

Dusty Chalk was able to figure out exactly what I was getting at and gives the answer in his post. ..but he still didn't get it. In the very next post, the OP posts he still has no idea what I'm talking about. ..even after Dusty Chalk spelled it out for him!

Hello... Mc Fly... *knock knock* ... anybody home?

It's amazing. He wants someone else to drag the real problem out of him, do all the legwork to get the information (the manuals) on his system, and someone else all the thinking for him by putting all this stuff together to come up with the answer. ...and he doesn't do anything except post here that he doesn't understand what's being said...

If he's having this kind of problems with a simple plain vanilla analog stereo, he's gonna have a lot of fun when he gets into HT.

But, odds are he stopped caring after Studly Kach's post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Studly Kach

Actually, Mark has. On page 4 of the manual, notice it says:Take a pair of interconnects, and plug them from the outputs to the inputs, left-to-left, right-to-right. Plug your turntable back into the phono input, and set the other two settings appropriately. Turn volume all the way down. Power on. Start a record playing. Turn volume up until you hear the record playing. Enjoy.

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Dear Ssarm,

Just want to clarify this post. He said to read page 4 of this manual. If you are viewing this with Adobe, it's on page 5. I still dont think your Adcom has faulty wiring or processor. Keep trying everything posters have recommended, and give us a detail info on what you tried. We are giving you alot of info, but we dont really know what you've tried. Give us more info than "I did"or "It won't".
Try everything, we are here to help.

-JRA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrhymeammo

Just want to clarify this post. He said to read page 4 of this manual. If you are viewing this with Adobe, it's on page 5. I

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Well, yes and no. Yes, in that in Adobe it's "Adobe page 5" because they count the cover sheet.

If it were printed out (and that's highly recommended) it shows page 4 at the bottom of the referenced page. The cover isn't numbered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markw

Well, yes and no. Yes, in that in Adobe it's "Adobe page 5" because they count the cover sheet.

If it were printed out (and that's highly recommended) it shows page 4 at the bottom of the referenced page. The cover isn't numbered.

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...and you thought this would be easy!

jimHJJ(...I have seen the future and I'm glad I'll be dead...)

Hey,

thanks for helping me guys. I've been searching for those little interconnects, and I finally found them today...at home. My mom is sending them up here to Boston and I should get them by Monday.

I'm sorry if I seem pretty stupid when it comes to this stuff. I did read the manual, but I wasn't sure what some of the terms. I'm only 19, and no one I know knows anything aobut turntables, preamps, amps, speakers, wiring etc. I've been learning everything as I go along. It seems kind of strange to me, not having an experience with this stuff, that you would need to loop the backside of the preamp. But hopefully Monday I'll be all set. Sorry for the trouble guys

Thanks again, talk to you monday

Well, he took that rather well.

No trouble, don't mind us. We're just ornery.

It's a common problem with vintage gear. At 19 years old, we can't have expected you to've run into it before.

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Originally Posted by ssarm@mac.com

Hey,

thanks for helping me guys. I've been searching for those little interconnects, and I finally found them today...at home. My mom is sending them up here to Boston and I should get them by Monday.

I'm sorry if I seem pretty stupid when it comes to this stuff. I did read the manual, but I wasn't sure what some of the terms. I'm only 19, and no one I know knows anything aobut turntables, preamps, amps, speakers, wiring etc. I've been learning everything as I go along. It seems kind of strange to me, not having an experience with this stuff, that you would need to loop the backside of the preamp. But hopefully Monday I'll be all set. Sorry for the trouble guys

Thanks again, talk to you monday

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I hope your pre-amp works the way it should. No problem with your experience level. You are miles ahead of me since I've never owned separate system in my life. Once you get everything settled, would you be kind enough to post a picture of your turntable? I've never seen Technic 5200.
Best wishes,

-JRA

Believe it or not, I was trying to help you. I was tryin' to teach you to fish, not simply throw you a carp. Along with helping you solve your problem, I was actually tryng to help you learn how to work things out for yourself. ...and sometimes the best way to learn is to dig up the answer for yourself.

I see that all the time in school. I tutor in the computer lab and many think it's easier to try to get the turors to do their MS Office homework rather than do it themselves. I'll help them with specific questions, but I'll also guide them to learn how to do it themselves. I'll help, but if I did their homework, they don't learn.

You'll notice that once I found what I believe is the cause of your problem, I tried to guide your thinking towards uncovering the answer for yourself. You'll notice that I was quite explicit in where you should look for it. I believe that had you read what was suggested and thought about it a little, the answer would have been obvious. Others were able to, and the owner's manual isn't that "deep". Heck, if you can deal with a computer and the interconnects there, an owner's manual for that analog two channel preamp should be a no brainer.

When you simply said "I don't understand" without asking any questions, I blew a gasket. It looked (to me, anyhow) like you didn't even try to help yourself!

Many of us here learned in the pre-internet days where the owner's manual was the sole source of information. It's not jealousy or anything, but It seems it's too easy for people to just post queries on these forums rather than use what's available to figure it out for themselves.

P.S.. you DO know that any old interconnects you have lying around will serve the same purpose as those jumpers, don't you?