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  1. #1
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    Sound Panels..Now What?

    Hello, I am struggling with placement of my sound panels. I have found it to be nearly impossbile to find a definitive guide as to where to place my room treatments. However, I have hear many speak highly of the results when treatments are placed properly. Therefore I built 4 DIY sound panels all to the size of 4 feet by 2 feet by 4 inches deep. I use mineral wool and followed the DIY instructions from remixmag.com to the tee. Now I am faced with the tricky part. As I have found through personal experience with my b and w dm602's speaker placement can dramatically improve sound quality when done right. Therefore, I assume the same to be tru for room treatments. I had difficulties loading pictures so let me try to explain my set up. I have a 1400 cubic foot room (11.75, 14.75, 8) which is my bedroom. My speakers are placed along the short side of the wall with my bed and cabinets facing them from the oppossite short side. As according to Rives audio room placement my speakers are 29 inches from the rear wall and 25 from the sides. Again I have 4 panels of 4 feet in length and one panel in 7 feet of length which I also built.
    I am hoping someone may have a few answers for me as I am confused with what to do with my treatments. I am aware of early reflections and the mirror technique however some say to leave lateral reflections alone. Also I wonder what to do with my remaining 3 panels if I used two of my five to treat the early lateral reflection.

    1. What are the best places to best utilize my panels in my room?
    2. Are there any guides or websites that may have information on placement that you know of.
    3. I have a vertical window directly between my speakers as well as a 30 inch lcd is that a problem?
    4. Is ceiling absorption truly necessary and how in the worl can I get the panels up there.

    Thanks to all. Keep Jammin!

  2. #2
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    We really need to discuss more on room acoustics. Some of us here spends thousands on a single equipment, but nows nothing about it's importance.
    I'm very much aware of it's importance, but know nothing about.

    Hope this thread will be hottest than other "Noise" we've had on this site.

    I've been adding web links of acoustics/room treatment to my equipment list. Go to my profile and check them out if you like.

    Based on what I've read and have done, when it comes to sound absorption, a term "Moderation" is the key.

    Have you ever gone to a local theater and clapped your hand as loud as possible? You almost ever hear echo/slap effect. That's not kind of room I would ever want in my listening space. That'll make things easier to locate where each instrucment is coming from, but will suck out space and ambience.

    Here is what I do with first point of reflection.

    I have 1/2" thick mdf boards glued with acoustic foam.

    On side walls(first reflection) I dont lay them flat against the wall. But instead, I only lean one edge of the board against the wall. See da pic below for what I'm talking about.



    It does NOT seem like much, but from my right speaker's view, my entire side wall is covered/treated. But the wall space between 2 panels to keep the room "live". If I had treated the entire wall instead, I wouldnt have been able to create more controlled acoustics.

    You can try placing your side panels as shown above. See if that'll work out for ya. But perhaps the most important room control in a small room would be sound "diffraction" panels or objects to virtually "enlarge" your listening room.

    I would love to hear more from experienced members from this site on this topic. Dont be shy. A huge nudge to E-stat, Kex, and WHERE IS DUSTY!!!!!

    Peace.
    Last edited by jrhymeammo; 02-02-2008 at 03:28 PM.

  3. #3
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    Do a search on Woochifer, a member here, and click on the "Wooch's Home Theater 1.0" link in his signature. It'll give you some ideas. You can also go to www.atsacoustics.com read the FAQ's and look at some of the customer photo's.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #4
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    I agree room treatment is not discussed here enough. People will go on for days about cables, which is the biggest waste of time when speakers and room acoustics are vastly more important.

  5. #5
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emorphien
    I agree room treatment is not discussed here enough. People will go on for days about cables, which is the biggest waste of time when speakers and room acoustics are vastly more important.
    Great point, emorphiine.

    If we are crazy enough to spend more than $200 on a pair of speakers, then why aint we being more proactive on room acoustics?
    WAF has always been the reason. I can understand people not being able to bring in some foam looking like damn Smurf....

    Bigmoney,

    As you know, is it difficult to create big open sound in small rooms. But since you do have to spend to much doe.You are in luck! I would get some corner traps to tame inevitable bass peak around 60hz.and of course diffusor to create much bigger sound.

    Acoustics:
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...04-part-2.html
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...04-part-1.html
    http://www.acousticsfirst.com/articl...rch/PopArt.htm
    http://www.auralex.com/literature/
    http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/help.htm
    http://www.eckel.ca/artfpan.html
    http://www.ambiophonics.org/Ch_5_amb...s_2nd_edit.htm
    http://www.learn.londonmet.ac.uk/stu...tic_notes.html
    http://www.regjamesarch.freeuk.com/acoustics.htm
    http://www.studiotips.com/term.html
    http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/ac...IOI/101_16.htm
    http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/tech_...oundAbsor.html
    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep9...coustic_3.html

    Last edited by jrhymeammo; 02-02-2008 at 06:43 PM.

  6. #6
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    GIK makes panels that are supposed to be quite good and reasonably priced.

    The problem is not any old foam necessarily works that well, and each room needs something different. If you're a big spender contact one of the more reputable companies and they'll go over your room with you and figure out the best room treatment package.

  7. #7
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Simplistically speaking

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmoney
    ...

    1. What are the best places to best utilize my panels in my room?
    2. Are there any guides or websites that may have information on placement that you know of.
    3. I have a vertical window directly between my speakers as well as a 30 inch lcd is that a problem?
    4. Is ceiling absorption truly necessary and how in the worl can I get the panels up there.

    Thanks to all. Keep Jammin!
    BM, at the risk of simplistic analysis, often the most useful placement of sound absorption panels is at the refection points on the side walls. Sit in your usual listening position and have some one hold a mirror flat against the side wall; when you can see the speaker on that side, you know that will be the "first reflection" point which is often the best place to put sound absorption.

    If your listening position is close to the back wall, it is almost always a good idea to put sound absorption directly behide you.

    As for the ceiling, the same principle applies as for the side walls, but if the image in the mirror you see of the speaker is much more of the top rather than the front, you probably won't get much benefit from a ceiling panel because the speaker won't be dispursing much sound in that direction.

  8. #8
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    How can I get treatment up on my ceiling??

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATS Acoustics
    Some customers will drill small pilot holes (from the back through to the front edge of the panel) and put screws through those holes and into the ceiling (preferably into a joist or other solid structure). The edge frame of the panel is solid and will support screws without a problem. Others will use screw eyes and/or screw hooks in the back of the panel and in the ceiling, sometimes with sections of wire to suspend the panels a couple of inches or more below the ceiling. The hooks and eyes can also be hooked together, or held together with small cable ties. The 24x48x2 inch panels weigh 10.5 pounds each, and the 24x24x2 inch panels weigh 5 pounds each, so there's not a lot of weight to support. If you are working with a drywall ceiling, be sure to use suitable drywall anchors anywhere you are screwing something to the drywall. Of course, whatever method you choose, use your common sense to make sure the panels are securely attached.
    I wouldn't worry about mounting panels on the ceiling. See how your room sounds after you get them properly placed on the walls first.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    I have ESL speakers, like almost all planar speakers, they are dipoles so I mounted panels behind them as well as at the first sidewall reflection point. For my room another panel centered between the stereo speakers seemed to help imaging.

    The ones behind the listening position didn't do much, I suspect the whole back wall could use absorptive material, I had thick carpet there before my house fire a couple years back. I may do it again.

    On the list of suppliers I didn't see ATS acoustics, one of the least expensive sources I've found.

    http://www.atsacoustics.com/
    Herman;

    My stuff:
    Olive Musica/transport and server
    Mark Levinson No.360S D to A
    Passive pre (homemade; Shallco, Vishay, Cardas wire/connectors)
    Cardas Golden Presence IC
    Pass Labs X250
    Martin Logan ReQuests.

  11. #11
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    Check post number 3 hermanv. I purchased a box of six 2 x 4 x 2 panels from ATS, 2 sheets of MDF from The Home Depot and some burlap from a fabrics store. I've completed one so far. Pics coming soon.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Check post number 3 hermanv. I purchased a box of six 2 x 4 x 2 panels from ATS, 2 sheets of MDF from The Home Depot and some burlap from a fabrics store. I've completed one so far. Pics coming soon.
    Yep, missed it.
    Herman;

    My stuff:
    Olive Musica/transport and server
    Mark Levinson No.360S D to A
    Passive pre (homemade; Shallco, Vishay, Cardas wire/connectors)
    Cardas Golden Presence IC
    Pass Labs X250
    Martin Logan ReQuests.

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