Some input please...

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  • 11-01-2009, 01:30 AM
    poppachubby
    Some input please...
    Hello Everyone!

    I have a question of sorts. I would like to integrate my main system's TT into my soundcard for playback/conversion. No actual attempts have been made yet but I have given it some thought...

    I could split each channel from the source, sending one into the amp, and one to the comp. This would mean splitting into the comp's input stage also, so that both TT's can be used. Keep in mind, there would never be simultaneous playback, it would be one or the other. That is, either the TT will be used for the comp OR the amp, and only one TT would be played at a time.

    I know this will work, I guess my question is, while only using one line of the split at a time, will I be degrading the signal badly? My thought is, since I won't be actually using both units at the same time, the signal should go in full through the path I select.

    I have considered a stage for the comp that has 2 pairs of inputs. This would solve the splitting on that end. However, I have a Music Hall MMF stage on it's way.

    It's late right now (early?), I hope this is clear enough to understand. Thanks in advance, Chubbs
  • 11-01-2009, 07:13 AM
    Mr Peabody
    Would you split before or after the phono preamp?
  • 11-01-2009, 07:58 AM
    poppachubby
    Well, I'm not entirely sure. Do you have an opinion about that? I want to use the MMF for digital application so ideally split the MMF's inputs.

    In general, what's your thoughts on this Peabody. Is there some way to do this that I'm not aware of or just not thinking of?
  • 11-01-2009, 08:43 AM
    Mr Peabody
    Well, I'm not entirely sure but I'd avoid with doing anything to the signal before preamp as it's already very low and would most likely be more vonerable in that state. You might check for some dedicated switcher opposed to splitting.

    They say splitting don't hurt anything but when I came out of my preamp and used a Y adapter to run a sub I could notice a difference in the drive of the amp. The amp seemed to have a bit more bass slam when the sub was off or Y was out of loop. You did say though only one would be used at a time. I still would avoid doing anything to the low side of the turntable signal.
  • 11-01-2009, 08:43 AM
    JoeE SP9
    You could you use a tape out signal from your amp/receiver into your PC sound card. This way whatever source you're using could be run into your PC. If your Tape monitor in and out is already in use an EPL out connection would do the same thing.
  • 11-01-2009, 08:48 AM
    JoeE SP9
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Well, I'm not entirely sure but I'd avoid with doing anything to the signal before preamp as it's already very low and would most likely be more vonerable in that state. You might check for some dedicated switcher opposed to splitting.

    They say splitting don't hurt anything but when I came out of my preamp and used a Y adapter to run a sub I could notice a difference in the drive of the amp. The amp seemed to have a bit more bass slam when the sub was off or Y was out of loop. You did say though only one would be used at a time. I still would avoid doing anything to the low side of the turntable signal.

    This would be because when you split the signal with Y connectors you are cutting the impedance the pre amp see's by half. This can cause problems.
  • 11-01-2009, 09:08 AM
    poppachubby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    You could you use a tape out signal from your amp/receiver into your PC sound card. This way whatever source you're using could be run into your PC. If your Tape monitor in and out is already in use an EPL out connection would do the same thing.

    Thanks Joe, that's a great idea. Never even considered it. I have my EQ using this route but I'll unplug it and start playing around. With this idea I'll just split the cards inputs, should be good.
  • 11-01-2009, 10:10 AM
    Mr Peabody
    JoeE, I knew we let you hang out here for a reason :)

    Are you sure though it cuts the impedance? That would seem like a good thing. Preamp outputs are supposed to be low.
  • 11-01-2009, 10:53 AM
    JoeE SP9
    It cuts the load the preamp is looking into. A Y connector is a parallel connector. The parallel resistance formula applies here. Preamps should have a low output impedance. They should be working into a high input impedance.
    BTW: This is why long leads can be a problem with tube preamps. The highish output impedance can enable a high frequency roll off when driving long leads.
  • 11-01-2009, 10:55 AM
    JoeE SP9
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Thanks Joe, that's a great idea. Never even considered it. I have my EQ using this route but I'll unplug it and start playing around. With this idea I'll just split the cards inputs, should be good.

    If you don't have something connected to your EQ use the tape monitor out on your EQ. That way you don't have to disconnect anything.
  • 11-01-2009, 11:51 AM
    hermanv
    All commercial Y adapters I've seen use extremely low tech wires and connectors and should probably be avoided for this reason alone.
  • 11-01-2009, 12:23 PM
    pixelthis
    You're going to need a phono pre-amp.
    GET ONE WITH TWO OUTPUTS if you can, but the simplest solution is to run the signal through a receover or integrated amp with a phono stage, and run a line to the computer.
    The signal from a TT is very very small, its difficult enough to get a decent signal to a phono stage, woul;dnt want to split it.
    you can buy a TT with USB out BTW, comes with cleaning up software.:1:
  • 11-01-2009, 03:18 PM
    poppachubby
    Thanks everyone, and yes Joe again, thanks.
  • 11-01-2009, 07:36 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    You could you use a tape out signal from your amp/receiver into your PC sound card. This way whatever source you're using could be run into your PC. If your Tape monitor in and out is already in use an EPL out connection would do the same thing.

    And typically involves a buffer stage which eliminates the impedance drive issue.

    rw
  • 11-05-2009, 05:03 AM
    poppachubby
    Thanks for everyone's input. The solution to my OP turned out to be Joe's suggestion. I have ouputted from my EQ. Thanks alot Joe!! This simple solution opened up a huge door for me. Versus a TT through a preamp, I've noticed that the signal strangth is way better making what I alreday thought sounded amazing, sound even better!!

    If it improves anymore my head could possibly explode.
  • 11-05-2009, 06:42 AM
    JoeE SP9
    Put me in your will. If your head explodes I want your gear.
  • 11-05-2009, 07:57 AM
    poppachubby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Put me in your will. If your head explodes I want your gear.

    Should I specify "cleaned of brains", or do you not mind taking care of that?
  • 11-05-2009, 10:21 AM
    JoeE SP9
    Isn't that what nursing homes are for.
  • 11-05-2009, 05:59 PM
    Mr Peabody
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Thanks for everyone's input. The solution to my OP turned out to be Joe's suggestion. I have ouputted from my EQ. Thanks alot Joe!! This simple solution opened up a huge door for me. Versus a TT through a preamp, I've noticed that the signal strangth is way better making what I alreday thought sounded amazing, sound even better!!

    If it improves anymore my head could possibly explode.

    Oooo..... messy. Might make a good You Tube video though
  • 11-06-2009, 11:25 AM
    poppachubby
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Isn't that what nursing homes are for.

    Hey Joe! My MMF didn't arrive today, much to my disappointment. I will have the main system ready to input to the soundcard now. A couple of things, without having the benefit of the MMF right now:

    Do you think that I should put the MMF into my 1515, and then into the soundcard? Is there a benefit to running the pre-amp straight into the card? Overall, the sound coming from the amp through the card is warmer and fuller. I wonder if it will be the same for recording.

    Secondly, will there be any issue splitting the card's analog inputs? I have 2 TOTL splitters. One for the main system and one for the comp's TT. I'm thinking as long as they're not run simultaneously, should be ok no?

    Finally check out this set of cables I got today. I decided to deviate from my beloved Acoustic Research Pro Series II. Have you used Energy brand?

    They look super tough, what really caught my eye was the braided shielding. I paid 8 bucks for them at my local surplus shop. 2 meter strand. The Sears price tag is still on it, $49.99!! So, obviously a good deal. Got them for the MMF which of course didn't show up.

    I also bought some AR connects, 12 ft. for the main system to the soundcard. I don't want to move anything. Any thoughts on really long analog connects? By far the longest I've ever used.

    Sorry man, I know this is alot of stuff...
  • 11-06-2009, 11:39 AM
    poppachubby
    1 Attachment(s)
    Another pic of the Energy
  • 11-07-2009, 03:16 AM
    poppachubby
    Bump...Joe your mailbox is full.
  • 11-08-2009, 01:15 AM
    JoeE SP9
    Not anymore!
  • 11-08-2009, 12:21 PM
    JoeE SP9
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Hey Joe! My MMF didn't arrive today, much to my disappointment. I will have the main system ready to input to the soundcard now. A couple of things, without having the benefit of the MMF right now:

    Do you think that I should put the MMF into my 1515, and then into the soundcard? Is there a benefit to running the pre-amp straight into the card? Overall, the sound coming from the amp through the card is warmer and fuller. I wonder if it will be the same for recording.

    If you connect your PC to any available tape monitor loop You can treat it like a tape deck for recording and playback. This is the easiest way I know of.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Secondly, will there be any issue splitting the card's analog inputs? I have 2 TOTL splitters. One for the main system and one for the comp's TT. I'm thinking as long as they're not run simultaneously, should be ok no?

    If you use a tape monitor loop this is a non-issue.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Finally check out this set of cables I got today. I decided to deviate from my beloved Acoustic Research Pro Series II. Have you used Energy brand?

    I used to make all my IC's. A couple of years ago I switched to Kimber Silver Streak for everything except the 20ft run to my power amps. That is DH Labs Pro Studio interconnect with DH Labs Ultimate RCA's. The Pro Studio is sold bulk only so I had to solder the connectors myself.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poppachubby
    They look super tough, what really caught my eye was the braided shielding. I paid 8 bucks for them at my local surplus shop. 2 meter strand. The Sears price tag is still on it, $49.99!! So, obviously a good deal. Got them for the MMF which of course didn't show up.
    I also bought some AR connects, 12 ft. for the main system to the soundcard. I don't want to move anything. Any thoughts on really long analog connects? By far the longest I've ever used.
    Sorry man, I know this is alot of stuff...

    Unless you have a tube preamp there should be no problem with long IC's. My SP-9 is a hybrid (tube in SS out) so the 20ft. cables I use are no problem. If you use a tape monitor loop as I have suggested you will have no problems. Tape out signals are almost always buffered.
  • 11-08-2009, 01:12 PM
    poppachubby
    Sweet thanks Joe. I was looking at some Kimber stuff yesterday. I don't think my equipment merits it, thank god! The shop puts together some pre-made stuff so that guys who aren't able, (but have the cash) can get in on the action. They were making an RCA, 5 strand piece. It was 2 meters long and all 5 strands were run into a shielded cover. I lost track at about 400.00 trying to add up the cost, never mind the labour. You notice a big difference when you made that leap?