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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
You should do a search for all of RGA posts, he's our local Audio Note (one note?) fan boy.
I have no problem with the notation of being a fan boy - sometimes some things are worth becoming a fan of.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
You are correct that there are some exceptions...
I merely point out that the technology exists. Over time, switchers will certainly be around but I'm hopeful that more companies will grasp the more innovative ways of finding inherently linear solid state circuits that operate like the Pass designs.
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
I have no problem with the notation of being a fan boy - sometimes some things are worth becoming a fan of.
No offense meant, just a little dig. As much as I like Audio Note gear, and this could be my personal taste, I also realize that there is other gear I would enjoy having just as much, if not more.
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i have a suggestion
that may work for some here. join the local audio society or club and attend the meetings. here in socal we have the LA/Orange County audio society. we visit dealers and manufacturers and also have presentations in a buena park hotel on occasion.
the clip below is for our next meeting in sept at manley labs (free beer!). eveanna will conduct a tour of the factory and give extensive explanations of many features of the products they make.
>
Dear Members and Friends,
Coming in September: The Grand Tour of Manley Labs in Chino!!!!!
You asked for it! It's the Event you have been waiting for! It just does not get better than this!!
Sunday, September 20th, 2-5pm: We'll tour Manley Labs with our own wonderful EveAnna Manley, President and CEO, as our exclusive guide!
It's a fabulous facility...tons to see! Unbelievable goodies! All made right there in house!!
The amazing EveAnna Manley has announced an incredible raffle of a pair of gorgeous MANLEY RETRO 100 AMPLIFIERS http://www.manleylabs.com/<WBR>containerpages/retro10099.html<WBR> Thank you!!!!!!
Just received from Chip Winston of Cable Research Labs: The CRL Copper Phono Cable, $895!! Thank you Chip and CRL!! The wonderful cable will be in the raffle along with the goodies from Manley!! WOW!
Great lunch! Beer! Superb and fun Raffle! Everybody will have a super time. Not to be missed!
Manley Laboratories, Inc.
13880 Magnolia Ave. Chino, CA.
1-909-627-4256
www.manleylabs.com
Please save the date. Visitiors, members, and guests are welcome! EveAnna is our 2009 Founder's Award Winner. Please congratulate her in person!!
Bob Levi
President
Los Angeles and Orange County Audio Society
America's Premier Audio Society with over 500 Members!
www.laocas.com 1-714-281-5850 <
you may even hear something. our previous meeting was at acoustic image whare we heard some VERY nice equipment, vinyl included.
only one whom has not heard a DECENT (not spelled astronomically priced) vinyl setups will understand what the superiority is all about. lets just say that a $500 player will suffice to open your eyes. tubes too. there are many components that exhibit none of the stereotypical soft/fuzzy/warm/mushy sound that some believe is present in all tubed designs.
if after youve taken real time to hear these things and you dont care, go back to the bose mindset. digital will be 'good enough' for you. it isnt for me. i realy like my CDs, SACDs, and DVDAs but LP playback has more "there" there. tubes enhance that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifitommy
that may work for some here. join the local audio society or club and attend the meetings. here in socal we have the LA/Orange County audio society. we visit dealers and manufacturers and also have presentations in a buena park hotel on occasion.
http://mail.google.com/mail/?source=...3071a752921ec6
the above link is for our nest meeting in sept at manley labs (free beer!). eveanna will conduct a tour of the factory and give extensive explanations of many features of the products they make.
you may even hear something. our previous meeting was at acoustic image whare we heard some VERY nice equipment, vinyl included.
only one whom has not heard a DECENT (not spelled astronomically priced) vinyl setups will understand what the superiority is all about. lets just say that a $500 player will suffice to open your eyes. tubes too. there are many components that exhibit none of the stereotypical soft/fuzzy/warm/mushy sound that some believe is present in all tubed designs.
if after youve taken real time to hear these things and you dont care, go back to the bose mindset. digital will be 'good enough' for you. it isnt for me. i realy like my CDs, SACDs, and DVDAs but LP playback has more "there" there. tubes enhance that.
Hifi,
Are your comments directed at anyone in particular or is it toward the thread? This isn't about analog vs. digital, though inevitably some discussions will cover that, as you can see. The subject was regarding an effective way to evaluate audio equipment. In the end, the final test will be the listening test for most, if not all.
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listening
YES, thats IT. there have been numerous catcalls in this thread against vinyl vs digital. so yes, lets all LISTEN and then make decisions. i bought my first CD player after hearing music that way. and it was good but i eventually started to realize i shouldnt give up the vinyl
the digs were that vinyl is less dynamic that digital (not true) and that distortion in tubed equipment dismiss them from consideration (again not true).
i learned the most in stereo stores by keeping my mouth shut and listening to the equipment and some knowledgeable sales personnel.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifitommy
the clip below is for our next meeting in sept at manley labs (free beer!). eveanna will conduct a tour of the factory and give extensive explanations of many features of the products they make.
I would love to attend. I have some frequent flier miles left if the schedule permits. EveAnna is definitely one of the good guys, er gals in the industry!
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
Based upon exactly what?
Based on assumption that THD above 0.3% is audible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
These companies have sophisticated measuring tools - just because the end result may have a higher measured distortion doesn't mean anything - they will ensure that all their amps measure the way they want them or need them to measure.
In actuality what you are saying is that you let somebody else (designer) decide how an amp should sound and what specifications it should have. Because when you buy their amp, you are also buying their vision of what does “sound” good and what doesn’t.
And for all we know, the designer might be deaf in one ear and can’t hear out the other :D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
Based on assumption that THD above 0.3% is audible.
Assumption? LOL! Why not test your own ability? Mine was only slightly above 1.6%. My assumption is that you can't even get close to that, much less go all the way to -45 db (which is only 0.56%). Good luck!
Distortion Test
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
In actuality what you are saying is that you let somebody else (designer) decide how an amp should sound and what specifications it should have.
In actuality what I continue to say is specifications remain useless and I use my own ear as the judge. :)
rw
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It comes down to one thing. If it sounds better it is better. Forget the specs and let your own ears do the deciding!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
It comes down to one thing. If it sounds better it is better. Forget the specs and let your own ears do the deciding!
Okay. So your rich nephew or your wealthy best friend comes to you and says: "I'm really interested in getting the best sounding 2-channel system. Since you have a vast knowledge, combined with years of experience in audio, can you help me?"
Knowing full well that everyone hears things differently and has different tastes. What do you tell him?
Do you:
1) Talk up your own system and convince him to buy the same?
2) Tell him to go read Sterophile and similar magazines as a starting point?
3) Tell him that its not your problem and to go fly to California and hit every possible HiFi store along the westcoast and listen to every possible combination of components?
4) Do a preliminary questioning to help narrow down the search?
5) Another option
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
In actuality what you are saying is that you let somebody else (designer) decide how an amp should sound and what specifications it should have. Because when you buy their amp, you are also buying their vision of what does “sound” good and what doesn’t.
And for all we know, the designer might be deaf in one ear and can’t hear out the other :D
No - what you are saying is to design equipment requires no listening whatsoever but merely calculations from a textbook. I have no doubt this is how most stuff is designed because even the engineers at such places after listening to their gear have been shown to like 20 year old tube amps at a fraction of the price better.
The goal of Audio Note - a SET maker is "Rather than try design out the deficiencies in the software, we try to retain as much of the information as possible, good or bad, it is not for the equipment manufacturer to change the sound of the software, if the software sounds bad, write an insulting letter to the recording and balancing engineers, not to us!!"
What counts is which "system" makes a Beethoven Piano Sonata sound more like a piano. As I already posted in the Stereophile link - the top SS makers know which one sounded more like a piano - the tube guys already know and most people leave SS for tubes and don't go back.
However your quote does illustrate something - people who have poor hearing and don't know what a piano sounds like will no doubt 'buy" based on measurements - they need to because they can't trust their ears to say system A sounds like a piano and system B does not. Yes "some" makers may design to their ears and what they like but what you assume, incorrectly, that I am buying based on "their" preferred sonic aesthetic. One buys based on their "own" preferences. If it is your preference to buy an amplifier with less than .03% THD or as some poster's buy based on the measurements traits found by Floyde Toole based on "other people's" blind listening sessions that is up to you and them. It saves them from trusting their ears which they obviously have zero confidence in. That's a real shame.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frahengeo
Okay. So your rich nephew or your wealthy best friend comes to you and says: "I'm really interested in getting the best sounding 2-channel system. Since you have a vast knowledge, combined with years of experience in audio, can you help me?"
Knowing full well that everyone hears things differently and has different tastes. What do you tell him?
Do you:
1) Talk up your own system and convince him to buy the same?
2) Tell him to go read Sterophile and similar magazines as a starting point?
3) Tell him that its not your problem and to go fly to California and hit every possible HiFi store along the westcoast and listen to every possible combination of components?
4) Do a preliminary questioning to help narrow down the search?
5) Another option
1. I let him listen to my system. I'm very happy with it and others whose opinion I value think it sounds good. I don't try to convince anyone to buy full range ESL's.
2. Of course I suggest checking out Stereophile and Absolute Sound etc.
3. I do that to people I don't like. There are lots of decent HiFi dealers here on the East Coast so they can save on plane tickets.The money is better spent on gear.
4. I always do that
5. I take him around to my fellow audio buddies so he can hear their systems.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
No - what you are saying is to design equipment requires no listening whatsoever but merely calculations from a textbook.
Leon Kuby, designer of many a Harman-Kardon Citation classic had some interesting comments about that topic. I cited some of his quotes from an old TAS review here. You were on that thread as well in a different area.
rw
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