SACD/Surround Music Listenings and Impressions

[BinFrog]

check out Sting's "Nothing Like The Sun" on DTS. Sort of the opposite of what I was saying about the Tchaikovsky, instrumentation is spread around. Great clarity as well.

I'm not really a fan of that album to begin with. Maybe if I can find it used somewhere I'll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation.

[shokhead]

Perhaps a change of wording is in order. Compare is more like stacking one product against another, taking differences into account. Just listening and deciding if something sounds good is just an opinion not a comparison

True. True. Sometimes its hard{at least for me}to type what you mean.
Sooooooooooooooooo. I can tell you what sounds best to me if i have this and that. Bottom line. I like the sound of DTS and SACD better then cd's. The mixing is another thread.

[Karl Chang]

Posted by gorilla196635 on 1/20/06

I bought one a year ago The Pioneer 563A and have a minimal collection at best..

Including:

diana Krall

The Who II disc set

Metallica

Stevie Ray Vaughn

Have you noticed Circuit City never really caught on to selling many discs and now Best Buy has eliminated them totally...

Where do you purchase your discs? Online?
I would like to add to the collection but it seems as though the technology is not going to make it. Maybe because of Blue Ray and HD DVD????



Reply for gorilla196635

Go online and visit sa-cd.net
They list almost every SACD made. Also, they have Links to retailers such as amazon.com and
their International sites, towerrecords.com, CD Universe and jpc.com (German online retailer}.
If you go through the links on this website (sa-cd.ner), you'll find SACD's at amazon.com that you won't find if you just go directly there.

Just look for your SACD using a search or narrowing down catagories.
When you find what you want, click on one of the retailers links.
They have prices and sometimes sound samples from CD Universe or jpc.

Good hunting

[Quagmire]

Nice thread, Woochifer:

I've been following it as much as I can when I get the chance to snoop around here -- which isn't that often these days. I have a question which may serve as a segue into a related topic and that is... "is SACD and/or DVD-A going to stay around as a viable format, worthy of further investment even as an audiophile nitch format"? I must admit that I love the sound of SACD and was furious that the format didn't start off immediately as Hyrbid at the least, and Multichannel/Hybrid at best. I believe that if this had been the case it would have eliminated the format war with DVD-A and might have been successful enough be considered more than just a "nitch" format. Other developements, like a digital connection could have come in time but I think the overall format would have found its footing and thus gained more support. So is software going to simply dry up and go away or are we going to be able to find titles in the future if we're so inclined? Just curious what most folks think?

Q

[shokhead]

Posted by gorilla196635 on 1/20/06

I bought one a year ago The Pioneer 563A and have a minimal collection at best..

Including:

diana Krall

The Who II disc set

Metallica

Stevie Ray Vaughn

Have you noticed Circuit City never really caught on to selling many discs and now Best Buy has eliminated them totally...

Where do you purchase your discs? Online?
I would like to add to the collection but it seems as though the technology is not going to make it. Maybe because of Blue Ray and HD DVD????



Reply for gorilla196635

Go online and visit sa-cd.net
They list almost every SACD made. Also, they have Links to retailers such as amazon.com and
their International sites, towerrecords.com, CD Universe and jpc.com (German online retailer}.
If you go through the links on this website (sa-cd.ner), you'll find SACD's at amazon.com that you won't find if you just go directly there.

Just look for your SACD using a search or narrowing down catagories.
When you find what you want, click on one of the retailers links.
They have prices and sometimes sound samples from CD Universe or jpc.

Good hunting

Amazon. BB now have them mixed in with reg cd's,not seperate anymore.

[Woochifer]

Nice thread, Woochifer:

I've been following it as much as I can when I get the chance to snoop around here -- which isn't that often these days. I have a question which may serve as a segue into a related topic and that is... "is SACD and/or DVD-A going to stay around as a viable format, worthy of further investment even as an audiophile nitch format"? I must admit that I love the sound of SACD and was furious that the format didn't start off immediately as Hyrbid at the least, and Multichannel/Hybrid at best. I believe that if this had been the case it would have eliminated the format war with DVD-A and might have been successful enough be considered more than just a "nitch" format. Other developements, like a digital connection could have come in time but I think the overall format would have found its footing and thus gained more support. So is software going to simply dry up and go away or are we going to be able to find titles in the future if we're so inclined? Just curious what most folks think?

Q

I think that SACD will soldier on as a niche format because it has the support of several key independent labels, and classical releases in particular continue to come out in that format. The hybrid discs in particular are fairly easy to find because they can be inventoried alongside the other CDs. I totally agree with you that Sony and its partners could have ended this format from the outset by standardizing all of their new releases around the CD/SACD hybrid. But, Sony could never figure out if it wanted to market SACD as an audiophile format, or as a value added enhancement to the CD.

DVD-A's future is less certain because its main base of support was with the major labels, and those labels have diverted a lot of the multichannel music releases towards DualDisc, which can include DVD-A but typically does not.

The consensus seems to be that SACD and DVD-A are dead as mainstream formats, which means no more concurrent new releases and only limited re-releases of pop, rock, and hip-hop titles. It also means that for the time being, most non-jazz/classical multichannel remixes will likely be relegated to Dolby Digital and DualDisc. Tower recently removed the SACD/DVD-A sections from their stores and started filing the discs alongside the CDs. Only with classical does Tower still maintain a separate SACD/DVD-A section. And even though the Best Buy stores in my area still have separate sections for SACD/DVD-A, they have not been restocked in a long time, so I would guess that they don't have much longer before they too go away.

Even though new material for these formats has slowed to a trickle, keep in mind that more than 3,500 SACD titles have come out, with at least half that many DVD-A titles. If there are favorite albums that you want to hear with audio quality better than the CD version, with multichannel audio as well, then I think it's worth investing in a player. I bought a SACD player so that I could hear the SF Symphony's ongoing Mahler series in multichannel, and that alone made the purchase worthwhile. Even if SACD/DVD-A disappears entirely from retail stores, there are still mail order vendors such as Music Direct that will likely continue to support SACD/DVD-A until the end. The only concern I would have is with titles going out of print.

A dedicated Sony CD/SACD changer will cost you $150 or less, and universal players also go in that price range. And it's not like you're getting junk at that price either. The Sony SACD players use the Burr-Brown 179x series DACs, as did Pioneer and Toshiba in their universal players from last year (I know that Pioneer changed to a different DAC in their most recent model); and these DACs are also used in the higher end Denon universal players as well as older Arcam CD players.

[Woochifer]

Amazon. BB now have them mixed in with reg cd's,not seperate anymore.

Not all of them. Most of the BBs in my area still have separate SACD/DVD-A sections. Thus far, only one BB store I've visited has started mixing the SACD/DVD-A titles with the CDs, but given that they have not restocked the SACD/DVD-A sections, those sections are indeed on borrowed time.

[shokhead]

I think that SACD will soldier on as a niche format because it has the support of several key independent labels, and classical releases in particular continue to come out in that format. The hybrid discs in particular are fairly easy to find because they can be inventoried alongside the other CDs. I totally agree with you that Sony and its partners could have ended this format from the outset by standardizing all of their new releases around the CD/SACD hybrid. But, Sony could never figure out if it wanted to market SACD as an audiophile format, or as a value added enhancement to the CD.

DVD-A's future is less certain because its main base of support was with the major labels, and those labels have diverted a lot of the multichannel music releases towards DualDisc, which can include DVD-A but typically does not.

The consensus seems to be that SACD and DVD-A are dead as mainstream formats, which means no more concurrent new releases and only limited re-releases of pop, rock, and hip-hop titles. It also means that for the time being, most non-jazz/classical multichannel remixes will likely be relegated to Dolby Digital and DualDisc. Tower recently removed the SACD/DVD-A sections from their stores and started filing the discs alongside the CDs. Only with classical does Tower still maintain a separate SACD/DVD-A section. And even though the Best Buy stores in my area still have separate sections for SACD/DVD-A, they have not been restocked in a long time, so I would guess that they don't have much longer before they too go away.

Even though new material for these formats has slowed to a trickle, keep in mind that more than 3,500 SACD titles have come out, with at least half that many DVD-A titles. If there are favorite albums that you want to hear with audio quality better than the CD version, with multichannel audio as well, then I think it's worth investing in a player. I bought a SACD player so that I could hear the SF Symphony's ongoing Mahler series in multichannel, and that alone made the purchase worthwhile. Even if SACD/DVD-A disappears entirely from retail stores, there are still mail order vendors such as Music Direct that will likely continue to support SACD/DVD-A until the end. The only concern I would have is with titles going out of print.

A dedicated Sony CD/SACD changer will cost you $150 or less, and universal players also go in that price range. And it's not like you're getting junk at that price either. The Sony SACD players use the Burr-Brown 179x series DACs, as did Pioneer and Toshiba in their universal players from last year (I know that Pioneer changed to a different DAC in their most recent model); and these DACs are also used in the higher end Denon universal players as well as older Arcam CD players.

One more thing about DVD-A Disc,they have DTS also.

[Karl Chang]

Amazon. BB now have them mixed in with reg cd's,not seperate anymore.

If you want a much bigger selection, the BB won't cut it.
You can't beat 3,100+ SACD's through sa-cd.net and it's linked vendors.

[Quagmire]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I have actually owned an SACD player for awhile now and would love it if studios were ramping up to release more material. One of my gripes about earlier releases, which were not hybrid, is that if the format does eventually die off and as a result, they stop making players for this format, then the discs won't play on any machine. With hybrids, the worst that can happen is that you'll have to settle for the CD layer instead of the Hi Rez layer, but at least the disc is still playable. At this point, there are some titles that I would like to have which are not hybrid and will absolutely not buy them unless they are steeply discounted (haven't seen that happen yet). I think it is too much to ask of consumers to purchase material which may not even be supported in the near future. Making it backward compatible is at least an acceptable safeguard so that folks don't have to try and predict the future whenever they want to make a purchase.

Q

[Woochifer]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I have actually owned an SACD player for awhile now and would love it if studios were ramping up to release more material. One of my gripes about earlier releases, which were not hybrid, is that if the format does eventually die off and as a result, they stop making players for this format, then the discs won't play on any machine. With hybrids, the worst that can happen is that you'll have to settle for the CD layer instead of the Hi Rez layer, but at least the disc is still playable. At this point, there are some titles that I would like to have which are not hybrid and will absolutely not buy them unless they are steeply discounted (haven't seen that happen yet). I think it is too much to ask of consumers to purchase material which may not even be supported in the near future. Making it backward compatible is at least an acceptable safeguard so that folks don't have to try and predict the future whenever they want to make a purchase.

Q

Actually, I don't think that finding players that can play SACD will be much of a problem. The upcoming PS3 will include SACD support, and devices compliant with the HDMI 1.2 standard will be able to pass/process SACD signals digitally. I agree with you about those single layer discs creating potential obsolescence, but I think there will be enough hardware support for the foreseeable future.

[topspeed]

Actually, I don't think that finding players that can play SACD will be much of a problem. The upcoming PS3 will include SACD support, and devices compliant with the HDMI 1.2 standard will be able to pass/process SACD signals digitally. I agree with you about those single layer discs creating potential obsolescence, but I think there will be enough hardware support for the foreseeable future.

Will BluRay audio be DSD?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Will BluRay audio be DSD?

DSD is not included in the Bluray standard. Sony smartly has elected to go with PCM since it is the basis for 90-95% of studio's all over the world. To continue with DSD would have splintered their support structure.

[topspeed]

Thanks for clarifying, Sir T.

Fight On!