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  1. #26
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    the hi rez players are sounding VERY good on rbcd

    it is likely the upsampling. if you want to up the rbcd sound, try a dac, there seem to be lots of those becoming available, with usb ports as well.

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=MHCD25.2

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...%20%20%2017BLK

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MFA1CD

    its funny though, i just went to audioadvisor.com and found a BUNCH of CDPs at differing prices. are you sure you hunted well enough?
    ...regards...tr

  2. #27
    Forum Regular elapsed's Avatar
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    Naim CD555 was released in 2006 (arguably the best CD player ever built), Naim CD5i-2 was released in 2007, Naim HDX was released in 2008, NaimUniti will be released 2009. There are 8 CD players now in Naim's lineup, and not one SACD player. And they all sound better than any Yamaha, Marantz or Sony SACD player.

    cheers,
    elapsed
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  3. #28
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elapsed
    ... There are 8 CD players now in Naim's lineup, and not one SACD player. And they all sound better than any Yamaha, Marantz or Sony SACD player.

    cheers,
    elapsed
    Sez you! elapsed. On the subject of Naim, you're beginning to sound like RGA on the subject of Audio Note. (You can't both be right )

    My days of buying CDPs is over. If my current player dies, (as it is, it's an SACD), I'll buy either another SACD or make do with my computer and DAC.

  4. #29
    Forum Regular elapsed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Sez you! elapsed. On the subject of Naim, you're beginning to sound like RGA on the subject of Audio Note. (You can't both be right )

    My days of buying CDPs is over. If my current player dies, (as it is, it's an SACD), I'll buy either another SACD or make do with my computer and DAC.
    That's the best part, with audio we can both be right! Truth be told, I've never heard a tube system. But if I had a bigger room to work with I could just have easily been happy with a pair of Maggies or Martin Logan's and some big huge poweramps (as opposed to my comparably small 50wpc system), at which time I likely would have purchased an SACD player. But it so happened that I heard my system and loved the sound. But I still know that my present CD player trounces my Oppo SACD player.

    Anyways we both enjoy our systems for our own reasons, that's really all that matters, but it's fun to discuss regardless

    cheers,
    elapsed
    Fidelity Acoustics RFM-2 speakers
    Naim CD5x cd player
    Naim NAC 122x pre-amp
    Naim NAP 150x poweramp
    Naim FlatCap-2x power supply
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    Naim NACA5 speaker cabling
    Naim Hi-Line interconnect
    Chord Crimson interconnects
    Rega Planar 3 turntable
    Goldring 1042 cartridge
    Squeezebox 3
    Oppo DV-983H dvd player
    Harmony 890 remote
    Quadraspire Q4 shelving
    Wiremold L10320 power strip

    System Picture #1 | System Picture #2 | System Design

  5. #30
    Bill L
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    I purchased a SONY sacd player about a year and a half ago. Thus far I currently own a total of one (1) sacd,"Tommy" by The Who. That's opposed to about 200 regular cd's

    Occasionally I'll search thru the SACD lists (can't quite recall the website right now), but I find that to be quite cumbersome and tiring after 15 or 20 minutes. I like most types of music, but what I don't have is experience in most types of music. For example, I am probably able to recognize a reasonable amount of the most famous classical pieces, but a bit less able to figure out who did them. Was that Beethoven's 9th or 8th? Was that Wagner or Liszt?

    I won't buy many SACDs ( or regular ones for that matter) that I am not, at least, somewhat familiar with. Unfortunately, the sacd selection outside of classical is quite minimal. Therefore I currently own a total of one (1) sacd..................
    Music:
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  6. #31
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    finding SACDs that are by recognizable artists

    is easy enough but far outnumbered by rbcd. sacd.net is a great resource for titles but you may have to search around for fair pricing. fry's has them in store and quite a few are by familiar artists, some even familiar albums in reissue.

    i just try to get one once in a while and they build up. the sound approaches good vinyl quality which makes then worth seeking. the net is more fruitful than actual stores.

    here is a quick search i just did on towerrecords.com:

    http://www.tower.com/tower_search/se...?keywords=sacd

    i just searched SACD.

    already i see titles that i want. i may just go there after i finish this post. keep in mind i still buy new and used vinyl.
    ...regards...tr

  7. #32
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    The selection

    Quote Originally Posted by bubslewis
    ...
    Occasionally I'll search thru the SACD lists (can't quite recall the website right now), but I find that to be quite cumbersome and tiring after 15 or 20 minutes. I like most types of music, but what I don't have is experience in most types of music. For example, I am probably able to recognize a reasonable amount of the most famous classical pieces, but a bit less able to figure out who did them. Was that Beethoven's 9th or 8th? Was that Wagner or Liszt?

    I won't buy many SACDs ( or regular ones for that matter) that I am not, at least, somewhat familiar with. Unfortunately, the sacd selection outside of classical is quite minimal. Therefore I currently own a total of one (1) sacd..................
    I have well over 600 classical digital recordings, the vast majority CDs, a few downloads mostly FLAC, and at least a couple of dozen SACDs although I haven't counted them.

    Despite being a classical listner 95%, I don't seek out SACDs in particular. If there is a good SACD version of a work I want, or if a highly reviewed recording that happens to be SACD, then I will definite buy it at reasonable premium in preference to the CD version.

    If you don't care for classical, your loss; if you do, go to ArkivMusic's SACD section. I know emaidel agrees that this is the most convenient way to shop for the format. From the main page you can drill down by Composer, Conductor, Ensemble, Label, etc.

  8. #33
    Forum Regular Kevio's Avatar
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    I thought the main benefit of SACD was the care taken in making the recordings. They know, as a SACD customer, you expect good sound quality. Record companies take extra care in production to make sure it sounds good. In short, it's not so much about the delivery technology as it is abut the recording technology and production expertise that goes into SACD releases.

  9. #34
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevio
    I thought the main benefit of SACD was the care taken in making the recordings. They know, as a SACD customer, you expect good sound quality. Record companies take extra care in production to make sure it sounds good. In short, it's not so much about the delivery technology as it is abut the recording technology and production expertise that goes into SACD releases.
    Yes, that and multi-channel.

    If you haven't heard a good m/c SACD played on a decent, properly set up m/c system, you are missing something. It delivers a simulation of reality that stereo simply cannot.

  10. #35
    Audio Junkie Registered Member
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    No worries, mate!

    Wow, Elmer Fudd's!! You've chased more 'wabbits' than I can shake a stick at! Anywho, here's my two cents: No one has mentioned Nine Inch Nails' "The Downward Spiral: Deluxe Edition" Holy Carp! I don't believe in Reznor's message, but I can't deny his aural engineering. That album has been waiting for a medium like SACD!
    Also, I'm not to worried about the loss of this great medium or one similar to it with memory becoming so cheap and accessible. 1 Terabite for around $100?!?! No one knew what that was 5 years ago! I've seen that (correct me if I'm wrong) TDK has released a multi-layer 200GB capacity Blu-ray disc. That is a lot of content! Hmm...what can we do with all of that space? I dunno. Maybe fill it with hi-rez audio whether it be DSD, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD. And, hey, there's plenty of room for video and all kinds of weird stuff. Mind you, we're barely through the first stages of this Hi-def change. Hi-rez video demands hi-rez audio and that's where the format becomes marketable. No one can deny a change they see when they move from a DVD player hooked up with a 'dinky link' to a Blu-Ray player with some simple component cables. Video sells, and I hope the audio follows suit.

  11. #36
    nightflier
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    SACD's advantages

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Despite being a classical listner 95%, I don't seek out SACDs in particular. If there is a good SACD version of a work I want, or if a highly reviewed recording that happens to be SACD, then I will definite buy it at reasonable premium in preference to the CD version.
    Well one thing that I'm a stickler about is that it is a hybrid & multichannel disk. Since there is no difference in price between a non-hybrid, a stereo, or an SACD that has both, then I don't see why I would spend the money on anything less. I don't know how many times I've wanted to play a non-hybrid SACD on one of my other players and couldn't. For me, SACD's biggest draw, way back when it was introduced, was the multichannel capacity. For orchestral music, this is a huge benefit since most of that type of music should evoke a sense of awe and a concert-like feel. I think of it this way, the best rock SACDs are the ones of live concerts. I was listening to Roger Waters last weekend, and the sense of being there, in the audience, just doesn't sound as enveloping in stereo.

    As far as the format dying, I agree that it will never completely die out, but with the much publicized Sony divorce, I can't say I haven't seen any writing on walls. Here's another sad fact: trying to find a good multichannel SACD player these days isn't so easy either. I like the players that Marantz and NAD have, but why so many models with just 2 channels? If I'm going to spend upwards of $2K on a player it sure as hell better have multichannel output. I have on loan from a dealer a Faroudja processor/player that I've been listening to for the past few months (I wanted to see what all the hoopla was about on the video side). Well, aside from fantastic video, the SACD sounds fantastic too, way better than my Sony. So now that I have an idea of what's possible, I'm looking for a decent SACD player with XLR outs and multichannel. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

    Zuben,

    Here's a thought: with 200Gb on tap, why doesn't someone come out with a truly hybrid disk for music. Throw every format on it, everything from DTS-MA to SACD to RBCD to FLAC. After all, it's still the same recording the consumer is paying for, so I don't see why that would be so far fetched. We should have the right to have our music in any format we want. Any company that will save us the trouble of converting these on a computer (which engenders more format cracking, IMO), deserves my hard-earned dollar.

  12. #37
    Aging Smartass
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevio
    I thought the main benefit of SACD was the care taken in making the recordings. They know, as a SACD customer, you expect good sound quality. Record companies take extra care in production to make sure it sounds good. In short, it's not so much about the delivery technology as it is abut the recording technology and production expertise that goes into SACD releases.

    I disagree entirely. In the making of many Telarc CD's, once the DSD medium became available, the same level of care went into the production of those discs as was utilized in most of the older PCM-mastered discs, but it was the DSD medium that made the difference, as the microphones and mike preamps were all the same in many instances. Then, as the SACD became available, it was only logical to use that format for a DSD mastered recording, as the SACD is the only medium capable of handling the extremely wide frequency response and dynamic range of the DSD masters.

    Another example would be that the same level of care goes into both the SACD and CD layers of a hybrid disc, but the SACD layer always sounds better, and in some cases, much better.

  13. #38
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    there was a time

    when i was handily critcized for embracing sacd here on AR. kinda like my adherence to vinyl which has paid off handily. and its not like i dont have RBCDs. i have plenty, just bought some more including jon hassell's 'leukocyte'. highly recommeded btw.

    its rewarding to see others benefiting from the superior sound of sacd. i have even gotten a player that will do dvda and have a couple of those as well although is seems that dvda has nearly died. PLEASE correct me if i am wrong and hip me to where new product is to be gotten for reasonable.

    one of these days i'll get crazy and buy some more amp channels to go with my pre pro. i now have a center ch that should do nicely.
    ...regards...tr

  14. #39
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    just found out my free toshiba DVD player will play SACDs - have to buy a copy of dead can dance toward the within too hear what i can hear.

  15. #40
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    SACD IS dead.
    I love the format, have several SACDs, but in an age where CD is dying, SACD
    hardly stands a chance.
    Yeah, it sounds great, tell that to all of the cheap MP3 downloaders.
    But thats not the worst of it, SACDS "niche" is high quality audio, and that is surpassed
    by Blu ray.
    NO you cant play blu in your car, neither can you play sacd in your car.
    But BLU sound is superb, blows the doors off of SACD.
    Not to mention that SACD is based on a disc with limited capacity compared to BLU.
    Its only a matter of time before someone comes out with a music format based on a higher capacity disc, which will almost always beat a lower capacity one.
    There just isnt a market for SACD, not a large one anyway.
    So if you are a fan, better run out and buy as many as you can afford, before it goes the way of DVDA, and other dinosaurs.
    Only a matter of time, really.
    And that is sad, because SACD is a simple, uncomplicated, elegant way of listening
    to music.
    But it is not CD ver2.
    Thats an IPOD
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  16. #41
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    SACD on-the-cheap

    You can get SACD on the cheap with the highly regarded Sony CE595 player. The great reviews prompted me to pick one up at BB for $150 but the reburbed ones on Sonystyle have been priced at well under $100. With a well recorded SACD disc this machine is equal to my MHZS F66 tube player on redbook. No doubt the dedicated 595 would trump most universal players including the Oppo.

    I'd rather buy the SACD-hybrid discs as the redbook layers are much better than what you get on the regular cd versions.

    As fine as Blu-ray audio is for HT it will never supplant two channel for guys like me who don't care for music played behind their back. Any musician will tell you they have the worst seat in the house.

  17. #42
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist
    You can get SACD on the cheap with the highly regarded Sony CE595 player. The great reviews prompted me to pick one up at BB for $150 but the reburbed ones on Sonystyle have been priced at well under $100. With a well recorded SACD disc this machine is equal to my MHZS F66 tube player on redbook. No doubt the dedicated 595 would trump most universal players including the Oppo.

    I'd rather buy the SACD-hybrid discs as the redbook layers are much better than what you get on the regular cd versions.

    As fine as Blu-ray audio is for HT it will never supplant two channel for guys like me who don't care for music played behind their back. Any musician will tell you they have the worst seat in the house.
    WHO says Blu has to be multichannel?
    As a matter of fact I have heard several BLU concert discs, and all are two channel.
    AND bLU PROBABLY will "supplant " the high quality niche eventually, it has more capacity, and the sound is scary good, and thats with video concerts.
    A dedicated Blu two channel format would be amazing.
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  18. #43
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    I'm personally very curious to know where Compact Disc is going... It's been around for some 20 years and is still going strong even though downloads do represent a big share in the market. What will be of it in 10 years? Are stores going to close? Is every thing going to be stream/download based? Are we actually ever going to OWN the music?

  19. #44
    Forum Regular Kevio's Avatar
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    When you download from Amazon, EMusic and even iTunes now that they've given DRM the boot, you get the same ownership rights as you got when buying a CD. The fact that you own a physical disc does not mean your use of if it unrestricted - you own a copy, not the copyright.

    So yeah, we're clearly headed for a downloadable musical existence. In my opinion, there's just no way physical media can compete in terms of cost, selection or convenience. CD is going the way of the LP. It's going down but there will be a niche market for people who enjoy the tactile experience.

    As far as I'm concerned, the question is whether we're going to continue to pay for tracks/albums individually or whether subscription models will prevail. There are all kinds of subscription and download models being tried at the moment. Will one model win out or are we going to be stuck with a huge selection of music with a huge selection of ways to listen to it?

  20. #45
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevio
    When you download from Amazon, EMusic and even iTunes now that they've given DRM the boot, you get the same ownership rights as you got when buying a CD. The fact that you own a physical disc does not mean your use of if it unrestricted - you own a copy, not the copyright.

    So yeah, we're clearly headed for a downloadable musical existence. In my opinion, there's just no way physical media can compete in terms of cost, selection or convenience. CD is going the way of the LP. It's going down but there will be a niche market for people who enjoy the tactile experience.

    As far as I'm concerned, the question is whether we're going to continue to pay for tracks/albums individually or whether subscription models will prevail. There are all kinds of subscription and download models being tried at the moment. Will one model win out or are we going to be stuck with a huge selection of music with a huge selection of ways to listen to it?

    hdtracks.com doesnt have DRM, and all of their stuff is highq , although a bit limited.
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  21. #46
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I'm personally very curious to know where Compact Disc is going... It's been around for some 20 years and is still going strong even though downloads do represent a big share in the market. What will be of it in 10 years? Are stores going to close? Is every thing going to be stream/download based? Are we actually ever going to OWN the music?
    The compact disc is going nowhere.
    When I got my first computer a single CD-ROM could hold the entire 265 meg HD backup,
    a 650 meg disc was hugh.
    Nowadays the new "netbooks" don't even have optical drives, just card readers, but a
    single SD card holds several gigs.
    A CD is increasingly looking like a 2.5 meg floppy.
    CD sales are sliding off of a cliff.
    As for SACD, IF YOU LIKE IT GET AS MANY AS YOU CAN.
    AND HURRY.
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  22. #47
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    (The) SACD is Dead! Long Live (the) SACD!
    'Lets See what the day brings forth'.... Reginald Iolanthe Perrin

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