SACD disks, yes or no?

[audio_dude]

Sorry, sorry...that was me. I thought I was hitting "Reheat" and hit that silly "Space-Time Continuum" button instead. These Apogee microwaves are an ergonomic nightmare.

apogee makes MICROWAVES NOW?? wow, wait 'till Flo hear about this! he'll freak!

[Dusty Chalk]

No, not yet, but they're going to.

[jrhymeammo]

This is coming from a 2ch guy with a very modestest system.

So, I can't tell you much about Multi-ch mixing. But just like what others have already stated it's all about the recording. Some SACD I own are just plain horrible, but others are great.

Herbie Hancock Gershwin's World is a great album. I burned a copy on a CD-R, and it sounds better than 95% of CDs I own.

DarkSide of the Moon on the other hand, I was listening to it last night, and I ended up taking it out in the middle of the 3rd song. But I did sit thru both sides of the 30th anniversary reissue.

[audio_dude]

Yeah, some recording, i just find they sound BETTER on vinyl, these are of course the albums that were originally mastered to vinyl...

[gjpham]

I got a hand on one but not sure it was SACD or not. I figured if SACD is more advance and expensive then it should have SACD printed on the cover but I didn't see any. The CD was :" On The Moon" by Peter Cincotti. http://www.petercincotti.com/ the website is playing the songs that I have right now. What a beautiful voice!!! Does anyone have it? is it SACD or regular CD?
The sound quality was great. It mainly played man vocal, bass guita, and trumpet. I made two copies with two diff speed just to see any differences, one at 4x and one at 40x; all three CDs sound identical.

[AmpNow]

I am not sure if you will notice any difference.

_________________
McIntosh MA6500 Integrated Amplifier - Get the MA6500 Integrated Amplifier Catalog by McIntosh Laboratory, Inc.

[hermanv]

All the comments and opinions below apply to 2 channel SACD only.

My good friend wanted SACD due to some limitations of standard Redbook CD. He has a truly first class system and the better Redbook recordings when played on his system are as good as I've heard anywhere.

He bought a used Sony 777, SACD player. SACDs played on it did not rise to the overall quality of his Redbook system which does have an outboard Levinson DAC. Some aspects of SACD were as good, maybe better particularly symphonic pieces where the whole ochestra is going at it full tilt. The congestion of the Redbook recordings was improved. But in many other areas a good Redbook disk sounded at least as good and often better.

He sent his SACD player in for a set of modifications from Vacuum State Technology (Swiss company) they were not cheap. After return and break-in, finally a clear improvement over Redbook. Note that Redbook CDs played on the new modified player were still not quite up to the sound of Redbook through the Levinson.

The problem is that only about 10% of Redbook CDs actually seem to make use of the full Redbook quality, most others suffer from various kinds of problems upstream. I assume that SACD will also have some limittions on the percentage of good disks, because the source material and the studio work may be the limit rather than the actual technology used to make the disks. His current 30 title SACD library is too small to validate this point.

So given enough money there is a reliable improvement, the difference is not stunning but quite noticable. I suspect that any SACD player below $2,000 will NOT outperform a quality brand CD player at the exact same price point because the Redbook technology is just more mature. At higher prices SACD appears to win.

[gjpham]

....So given enough money there is a reliable improvement, the difference is not stunning but quite noticable. I suspect that any SACD player below $2,000 will NOT outperform a quality brand CD player at the exact same price point because the Redbook technology is just more mature. At higher prices SACD appears to win.

Thanks for the input.

[rreid66]

I just recently connected the Pioneer DV-59AVi DVD/CD player to the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver using the i.LINK connector, eliminating six standard RCA connectors. Fred Manteghian's December 2006 review of the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver recommends

"Another feature you won't want to overlook is the receiver's i.LINK connection. Commonly referred to as FireWire (or even IEEE1394), i.LINK lets you send a multichannel digital audio stream to the receiver where bass management can then be performed in the digital domain, instead of using six analog cables that necessitate a roundtrip from the digital to analog realms. i.LINK, or the lack of it, is what got my last Elite kicked out of my country club, to be replaced by the Integra Research RDV 1.1 universal player. The Pioneer identified the Integra immediately by name. With that one thin cable, you'll likely get better sound, better bass management for multichannel audio discs, and less of that Snakes-On-A-Plane feel behind your equipment rack." (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/1206piovsx/)

The VSX-84's operating instructions state that when the i.LINK interface is used, a precision quartz controller in this Pioneer receiver (and perhaps others as well) eliminates distortion caused by timing errors (jitter), allowing for the best digital-to-analog conversion from the digital source.

The i.LINK connection also senses automatically what type disc is being played without your having to do additional button clicks for multi-channel.

How does the i.LINK connected equipment sound? Glorious! Both SACD and CD benefit from a more fully dimensioned soundstage with the detail of SACD revealing itself even more obviously. Instrument and vocal timbre is certainly augmented. Minidiscs and even old vinyl LPs gain audibly as well.

Remember, i.LINK is a superior audio connection, and has nothing to do with video. Since I cannot at present use the HDMI connection, and must make do with component video.

[Rock789]

I just recently connected the Pioneer DV-59AVi DVD/CD player to the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver using the i.LINK connector, eliminating six standard RCA connectors. Fred Manteghian's December 2006 review of the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver recommends

"Another feature you won't want to overlook is the receiver's i.LINK connection. Commonly referred to as FireWire (or even IEEE1394), i.LINK lets you send a multichannel digital audio stream to the receiver where bass management can then be performed in the digital domain, instead of using six analog cables that necessitate a roundtrip from the digital to analog realms. i.LINK, or the lack of it, is what got my last Elite kicked out of my country club, to be replaced by the Integra Research RDV 1.1 universal player. The Pioneer identified the Integra immediately by name. With that one thin cable, you'll likely get better sound, better bass management for multichannel audio discs, and less of that Snakes-On-A-Plane feel behind your equipment rack." (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/1206piovsx/)

The VSX-84's operating instructions state that when the i.LINK interface is used, a precision quartz controller in this Pioneer receiver (and perhaps others as well) eliminates distortion caused by timing errors (jitter), allowing for the best digital-to-analog conversion from the digital source.

The i.LINK connection also senses automatically what type disc is being played without your having to do additional button clicks for multi-channel.

How does the i.LINK connected equipment sound? Glorious! Both SACD and CD benefit from a more fully dimensioned soundstage with the detail of SACD revealing itself even more obviously. Instrument and vocal timbre is certainly augmented. Minidiscs and even old vinyl LPs gain audibly as well.

Remember, i.LINK is a superior audio connection, and has nothing to do with video. Since I cannot at present use the HDMI connection, and must make do with component video.

thanks for the info, but as this is your first post, are you a sales rep for pioneer?

[rreid66]

thanks for the info, but as this is your first post, are you a sales rep for pioneer?

Our audio/video gear includes Sony, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi equipment along with Cambridge Soundworks speakers, none of which a Pioneer rep would have.

[PeruvianSkies]

Am I the only person who feels that the mix on the 5.1 verion of Dark Side of the Moon is a bit awkward and rather poor? It has some interesting mix portions like the money bags and various intricacies on songs like "Money", but overall it was not really a good mix in my opinion. In fact, I think there was an article by the engineer about how he was unhappy with the end result on the SACD. I would say this is one of my least listened to SACD's, despite being a favorite album of mine. I much prefer THE WALL though and would be curious to hear that in 5.1, I do own the Roger Water's THE WALL SACD, which is decent, although not as good as my German Import DVD of THE WALL in Berlin, which is in DTS. The SACD offers more clarity and refinement, but the DVD w/ DTS sounds more like a concert...full, engaging, and just flat-out-rocking!!!

[Rock789]

I am not happy with DSOTM in 2ch mode...
5.1 channel I like, but it was one of my first multichannel sacd's so this may be the reason...

[hermanv]

I just recently connected the Pioneer DV-59AVi DVD/CD player to the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver using the i.LINK connector, ...edit...

How does the i.LINK connected equipment sound? Glorious! Both SACD and CD benefit from a more fully dimensioned soundstage with the detail of SACD revealing itself even more obviously. Instrument and vocal timbre is certainly augmented. Minidiscs and even old vinyl LPs gain audibly as well. ...edit....

Based on my personal experience I have long believed that the DAC (and analog out buffer) has far more to do with sound quality than any other part of the digital music chain. I upgraded to an external DAC and then to a far better and more expensive external DAC. I never regretted that expense, it paid off handsomely.

Your experience is that the DAC in the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver is better than the one in your DVD/CD player. Dedicated stand alone DACs may have even more to offer. I have steadily advised anyone who asked that a dedicated DAC was probably the best place to spend upgrade money. Too bad no outboard SACD DACs currently exisit or are likely to due to the recording industry paranoia about digital copying

The industry continues to forget that the compact cassette tape did not destroy their business, if anything the easy distribution of music helped sales. For example you made a cassette copy of a new LP (or even CD) and played it in your car, friends would ask "Who's that?" and a new album sale was made. The industry continues to exhibit low sales numbers, blaming them on copyright theft, I suspect the real culprit is the unabashed garbage they are trying to sell. Please; the scantily clad barely legal teens are quite good looking, none can sing.

[Rock789]

Please; the scantily clad barely legal teens are quite good looking, none can sing.

WOOT! for hot chicks!!!

Darn them for not being able to sing!!!!

:rofl:

[rreid66]

Your experience is that the DAC in the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver is better than the one in your DVD/CD player. Dedicated stand alone DACs may have even more to offer.

You are probably right. It's something that I should try. Almost anything is worthwhile to improve sound.

[jrhymeammo]

This is coming from a 2ch guy with a very modestest system.

So, I can't tell you much about Multi-ch mixing. But just like what others have already stated it's all about the recording. Some SACD I own are just plain horrible, but others are great.

Herbie Hancock Gershwin's World is a great album. I burned a copy on a CD-R, and it sounds better than 95% of CDs I own.

DarkSide of the Moon on the other hand, I was listening to it last night, and I ended up taking it out in the middle of the 3rd song. But I did sit thru both sides of the 30th anniversary reissue.

WFT is this?

[jrhymeammo]

Now it's gone and is on hermanv's post. Am I the only one who's seeing the gray square box? I think the server used by AR needs to be mated with better shielded wires... Power conditioner? Space Rocks?

[Rock789]

looks like a normal quote to me :dunno:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Now it's gone and is on hermanv's post. Am I the only one who's seeing the gray square box? I think the server used by AR needs to be mated with better shielded wires... Power conditioner? Space Rocks?

I'll go along with the power conditioner idea, but... Space Rocks?

Nice avatar jr.

[hifitommy]

sacd has the relaxed, satisfying sound of analog (like vinyl) that isnt immediately identifiable but noticed over a period of time. the high end IS better and has more shimmer due to the higher sampling rate.

i listen in stereo with dynaquad passive surround and dont miss the mc mixes. i have a nu force pre/pro but not enough amp channels for 5.1 but another thing keeping me where i am is that the center channel speaker must be tonally equal to the L/R fronts to be effective. not an easy task.

i buy sacd when available unless the price is prohibitive like mofi. the title has to be exemplary to justify 30-40 bucks for one disc.

most of these discs are no higher than $20 or so. take the plunge, oppo players are affordable enough and sound good enough to take the gamble.

[jrhymeammo]

A friend of mine just bought a Denon DVD-1920 floor model for $200, and he's absolutely thrilled. BTW, his system is more modest than mine.