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  1. #1
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    Reciever upgrade question

    Sorry, this may well be a stupid question, but after reading reviews, I'm no closer to a descision than I previously was. Too many either wildly positive or wildly negative reviews.

    So basically, right now I''ve got an old Harman Kardon HK3300 reciever, a pair of klipsch RB 15's and a klipsch RW-8. The reciever is old and was about 150 bucks in a pawn shop as it was pretty much the only thing I could find with a phono input in my area.

    I'm not looking for a more powerfull setup, this produces at least enough volume for me. Clarity is more important, but being a student I have a (very) limited budget. The system is basically for music (from classical to punk to rock, and a very very little rap). If I had around $500 canadian (+/- $100) to spend on a new reciever there be much of a difference in quality? I'm in an area with out a lot of selection, so it's tough to go try things to get a feel as most stores have the same products, and the salespeople tend to try and sell you one product with bad lines and little technical knowledge.

    So if anyone has some experience with th HK 3300 and can compare it to some current models in the price range I'm looking at, or just general advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Sorry about a probably stupid question and long post. I figured that a certain amount of info was needed to avoid being another "what reciever should I buy" style post.

  2. #2
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    I'll offer some general advice.

    To replace your receiver for one with noticably more power, or one more able to handle the peak transients in your source, you'll need to at least double it's current real world power rating.

    Twice the available power (100 watts to 200 watts) results in only a 3 decible change in apparant loudness, which ain't a whole heckuva lot, particularly considering you're using Klipsch speakers which are generally very efficient to begin with.

    For an apparant doubling of the current loudness, you'll need ten times the power, or starting with a 100 watt amp, you'll need to up the ante to 1000 watts.

    If you want/need more features (and are willing to probably sacrifice a phono input) then you might want to look around but if power for loudness/clarity's sake is your goal, I'd think reeeeeeeeeeeeal carefully here.

    And, FWIW, you gave more than relvevant enough info and asked a specific enough question to avoid qualifying for a "What's the best...." type post by a long shot. Good job.

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    I'd tend to agree...

    ...with the general...my major contribution would be to look at new speakers or perhaps doing some minor room treatment to get the most from what you have...

    jimHJJ(...just my two-tenths of a dime...)
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  4. #4
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    Thanks for the help, I'm sure these entry level questions come up a lot and are pretty dull,

    So I have a basic knowledge about how to up volume with wattage through some physics and bass playing, and i think the reciever's manual says its 25 watts per channel, so anything that I know exists in the price range is 2-4 times this. (I'd looked at some onkyo's but wanted a sub output as I like the speaker configuration I have now, and I had idly looked at some HK 3380's but didn't have time to listen to them)

    So I suppose part of my question is wheteher the quality has declined by Harman over time, or are you still getting what you pay for? If so, is an HK 3380 going to sacrifice quality for volume being 80 watts per channel compared to the older model's 25, or is the older model just a really cheap version that is no longer available?

    Pretty much I am looking for a very basic reciever with 25 or more watts per channel. I guess an increase would be nice, but not the main point as the volume is sufficent for me. Anything more than 100 W per channel is going to be very overkill for the dorm rooms and qhatnot it will be used in for the next few years. Pretty much I need a phono, cd, and 2 audio inputs, bass, treble, balance, volume, and a sub out. SO if there are any brands that I'm not thinking of in this price range that might be worth trying to find, that would be appreciated. (I've looked at the enrty level JBL/etc and its just not what I'm looking for sonically or feature wise)

    Thanks so much for putting up with the long posts, I REALLY appreciate any help.

  5. #5
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    I agree with markw, your post is just fine and entry level questions are quiet sensible--a helluva a lot better than going out to audition with no info and making a bad choice. First the HK3300 is a solid receiver and so are the newer models. I currently run an HK3375 and I consider it a good quality receiver. I don't think you'll go wrong moving to the HK3380 (or perhaps better, the HK3480 with more power and connections). I think another model worth a look with the features you seek would be the Denon DRA-395. This is a very solid receiver with quite a few more features than the Harmon models. It has a very solid amp, a decent tuner and, at $349 US, it should be in your price range. I'd recommend the next model up (DRA-685) except it doesn't have a sub out (go figure). It has a very good amp though. There aren't a lot of choices in stereo receivers nowadays, especially with a sub out feature. Rotel (used) and NAD have some good products but no sub out and a used Yamaha might be worth a look. I don't know if the Yamaha's had a sub out or not. I bet they would sound great with your Klipsch though.

    To sum up, I think Harmon Kardon or Denon would be good choices but try to arrange an audition with your speakers (even if you have to take them with you) or a model like them to make sure the sound quality is what you're looking for. You never know, you may find that your 3300 is better than you think! Best of luck.

    Gary

  6. #6
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    are you looking for a new one or a used one. There are some good receivers here

    in the classifieds. You could look at ebay or ubid too. But if you go to ebay be careful and make sure there are plenty of references. ALso harmon sells refurbished on the bay.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jucas
    Sorry, this may well be a stupid question, but after reading reviews, I'm no closer to a descision than I previously was. Too many either wildly positive or wildly negative reviews.

    So basically, right now I''ve got an old Harman Kardon HK3300 reciever, a pair of klipsch RB 15's and a klipsch RW-8. The reciever is old and was about 150 bucks in a pawn shop as it was pretty much the only thing I could find with a phono input in my area.

    I'm not looking for a more powerfull setup, this produces at least enough volume for me. Clarity is more important, but being a student I have a (very) limited budget. The system is basically for music (from classical to punk to rock, and a very very little rap). If I had around $500 canadian (+/- $100) to spend on a new reciever there be much of a difference in quality? I'm in an area with out a lot of selection, so it's tough to go try things to get a feel as most stores have the same products, and the salespeople tend to try and sell you one product with bad lines and little technical knowledge.

    So if anyone has some experience with th HK 3300 and can compare it to some current models in the price range I'm looking at, or just general advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Sorry about a probably stupid question and long post. I figured that a certain amount of info was needed to avoid being another "what reciever should I buy" style post.
    As others have already said, your newbie type questions are fine -- not stupid -- no appologies needed. If you think extra power is what you need for better sound clarity, one option you might explore is the addition of an external power amp. Does your receiver have "Pre-out" connections? If so, you can connect an external power amp to the receiver via these Pre-out connections and basically use the receiver as a preamp. You would still be able to use the sub out on your receiver as you were before and would have more power to drive the Klipsch bookshelf speakers. If the receiver isn't giving you any problems, this might be a very sensible upgrade path for you since you can devote your total budget to the thing you want to improve (the amp) rather than buying a receiver to replace a receiver. If you're not opposed to buying used, you can find some very good deals on used power amps for the price you would pay for a new reciever. Just a thought.

    Q

  8. #8
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    Thanks for all the responses, I really like the power amp upgrade idea, and I never would ahve thought of it without coming here. Unfortunatly I see no pre out on the reciever, so it'll probly get upgraded to something a bit more flexible so next time i feel like an upgrade theres a few more possibilities.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jucas
    Thanks for all the responses, I really like the power amp upgrade idea, and I never would ahve thought of it without coming here. Unfortunatly I see no pre out on the reciever, so it'll probly get upgraded to something a bit more flexible so next time i feel like an upgrade theres a few more possibilities.
    Actually, looking at the owner's manual it says:

    "Connect these jacks, if desired, to a powered subwoofer, or a power amplifier driving a subwoofer. This output may also be used for surround-sound equipment or any external component requiring a line level input."

    This means that you can use the Sub-out jack as a Pre-out jack to supply a line level feed to a power amp.

    Q

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    Point of order...

    Quote Originally Posted by Quagmire
    ...line level feed...
    A line level feed is fixed and spec'd to work with a specific impedance. It is usually for use with a recording device, etc. whose input spec would work with the preset output level it provides...If the "sub-out" jacks are indeed full frequency range(and not limited to low freqs) as suggested by the manual, there should be no problem to run a power amp with them...their output will be affected by the volume knob; this would not be the case with LL...

    jimHJJ(...just some clarification...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    A line level feed is fixed and spec'd to work with a specific impedance. It is usually for use with a recording device, etc. whose input spec would work with the preset output level it provides...If the "sub-out" jacks are indeed full frequency range(and not limited to low freqs) as suggested by the manual, there should be no problem to run a power amp with them...their output will be affected by the volume knob; this would not be the case with LL...

    jimHJJ(...just some clarification...)
    I questioned that too, RL. If you read how the statement is worded, it may mean that you can even use it will components that require LL inputs, BUT it may not be limited to only those types of components. At any rate... a sub out connection like this would almost certainly be a pre out type of connection otherwise the sub would only play at one output level. What is in question is whether the output full range or is limited to low frequency output, and judging by the wording, it is full range. Other HK receivers I have experience with have full range signals from the sub out jacks, so I think there is a good chance these could be too. He should be able to use this output as a preout to an external amp.

    Q

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