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Thread: perfect placement for speakers

  1. #1
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    perfect placement for speakers

    Have you ever tried challenging yourself to get the perfect placement for your speakers?


    I have been trying to get a better placement for my Tannoy Cheviot (12 inch) speakers with a testing CD called 'XLO Reference Recordings Test and Burn in CD', with the CD cover here( Reference Recordings Test and Sampler CDs)


    There are two tracks for testing in-phase and out of phase. While playing the in-phase track, a human voice reads out 'My voice should be centered between your 2 loudspeakers, tightly in focus'. Are we supposed to be able to hear the voice with a sharp focus, like a human standing right in the middle between 2 speakers speaking that sentence?


    I only hear a human voice coming from the front of the room, not able to 'see' someone standing right in the middle. What should I do? I heard Tannoy's are easy when it comes to placement yet I've been moving my Tannoy's around yet still can't get it done.


    Many thanks
    Chris

  2. #2
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Its good that your using a test CD, but you have to take other factors into consideration:

    1. Room size

    2. Flooring

    3. Furniture/windows and other objects that can reflect or muffle sound

    4. Sitting position/distance

    5. Your own ability in hearing it correctly

    Some of these items can be changed while others you will have to work around, just remember its mainly how it feels to you. We both can walk into a room and hear things differently depending on our own experiences and knowledge.
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    Reverse the speaker wires on one speaker and listen to the track again. Listen to hear if the voice is more centered than before. Also when speakers (stereo) are out of phase the bass will sound weak. This is because the bass is usually mono and when out of phase the two out of phase bass channels cancel each other out causing very little bass to be heard.

    If wired in phase (you have good bass) but the in phase track still doesn't sound centered, it's possible your tweeter was mistakenly wired backward. Not very likely, but it does happen.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    when bob carver was introducing the sonic holography technology, he put out a test recording on a sound sheet (nearly paper thin vinyl) with some instructions. if one followed the setup instructions, your speakers would end up in the right place and your system would sound great.
    ...regards...tr

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    Yes, moving the speakers around and trying them with different components is the best way to find the best sound.

    I just did a test at the house I purchased (have not moved in yet but am working on it) by setting up my little Jamo C 601 speakers with a Dayton DA 120 Class T amp and a cheap 12 year old Teac CD player. The room is 14 by 14 with 9 foot high ceilings. Plaster walls and hard wood floors too. Put the speakers on stands about 26 inches off the ground, angled them a quarter to half inch upward in the front and 24 inches from the back wall. About 6 feet apart and about 2 to 3 feet from the side of the walls.

    I was literally blown away by what I heard. The Jamo had always been a nice speaker in every other room I used (always carpeted with sheetrock walls and lower ceilings) and sound very typical of a speaker of this type. But the sound I heard in the room in the house was incredible. Suddenly the sound stage opened up more, instruments were clearly defined and positioned better within the sound stage and the bass got tighter. It actually sounded like I was sitting in a concert hall listening to my music. The negatives were the bass in this speaker is not really adequate for a room of this size nor does it go deep enough for recordings from groups like Emerson Lake and Palmer. The Sound Stage while improved could be a bit larger I suspect with a slightly larger speaker.

    Going to replace the CD player with a new Marantz or Yamaha pretty soon. Will also try my Qinpu A3 amp next time and may pick up a better T class amp from Topping to see if that can improve the sound stage a bit and bass.

  6. #6
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    To B62: A decent subwoofer properly set up will produce the bass you desire.

    hifitommy: I've got that "sound sheet" that Carver gave away. I've also got the one that was in the March 82 Audio magazine.
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  7. #7
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    HEY joe, where you goin' with that gun in your hand? i was a hard core subscriber to AUDIO. i read ed canby, bert whyte, and AHC pretty regularly. bascom king did the amp reviews and now he is doing an amp for PS Audio.

    the BIBLE issues in october were keepers. SO many product listings and specs, and humor built in too with the Lirpa products.

    but back to the sound sheet: really, if you followed those instructions, you would end up with a great sounding system by just placing your speakers correctly.

    THANK YOU Bob Carver!
    ...regards...tr

  8. #8
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    So true. Once you were able to get the "holograph" effect without the device (via the sound sheet) everything, especially the sound stage, sounded better.

    I was a long time Audio subscriber. ETC was one of my favorite columns. I first learned about Sereophile (long time subscriber) because of an ad in the classified section.
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  9. #9
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    B62, what you are experiencing is a live room. I have 4 systems in my house and 3 of them are in a live room, wood floors, lots of windows and tall ceilings. The 4th system is in a dead room with carpeting and 1 window. I prefer the live rooms with all the reflections. The sound is more 3d, holographic, musical and alive. The dead room sounds good but a little flat in comparison. Even my audiophile friends like the live room effect.

    One of my systems is a Dayton DTA-100a like you newer 120. I have it hooked up to a pair of Monitor Audio S1 speakers and the sound is outstanding. By the way, if you feed that dayton amp a good source signal from a higher end DAC you will be surprised at how good things can sound.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    B62, what you are experiencing is a live room. I have 4 systems in my house and 3 of them are in a live room, wood floors, lots of windows and tall ceilings. The 4th system is in a dead room with carpeting and 1 window. I prefer the live rooms with all the reflections. The sound is more 3d, holographic, musical and alive. The dead room sounds good but a little flat in comparison. Even my audiophile friends like the live room effect.

    One of my systems is a Dayton DTA-100a like you newer 120. I have it hooked up to a pair of Monitor Audio S1 speakers and the sound is outstanding. By the way, if you feed that dayton amp a good source signal from a higher end DAC you will be surprised at how good things can sound.

    BR. In light of my findings I am rethinking virtually everything for my two stereo systems. I am still planning for two two speaker systems. I may be able to use my Mirage OM 10's again now that my pet issue appears to be out of the way. Now that the cat is about three years old I don't think she'll jump on the speaker anymore like she did when she was a few months old.

    The Mirage speakers sound great with the Qinpu amp. And the Dayton sounds great with the Jamo's minus the weak bass. I am going to do a test at Christmas in that room and try the Qinpu with the Jamo's along with some heavy duty metal stands to see if the bass improves. If so, then I have a better idea of how to proceed with buying new speakers. Bought the C 601's as a temporary fill in while I boxed up the Mirage speakers. Gave my Castle Conway 3 towers to my brother. Believe it or not the Jamo speakers sound identical in every way to the Conway's but with much less bass. But the detail and imaging and overall sound is otherwise identical. Amazing that a pair of $450 speakers can sound like speakers that cost 2 grand.

    On the DAC subject. Don't know a thing about them. Most of my music is on store bought CD's. Will a DAC help them at all or only songs from the internet recordings? I can buy a Marantz or Yamaha CD that has a built in DAC and it won't break my budget.

    Now am considering the Boston Acoustics A 25 and A 26 speakers, as well as the Wharfdale Diamond 10.1 and Dali Zensor 1 as well as the Jamo C 603 as replacements for the C 601's. Bass response is not quite as low as I'd like but mostly I just want a larger driver to be able to hear the bass better in that room. I think a 5 inch plus driver will do the trick.

  11. #11
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    A DAC will improve the sound of your CD's depending upon the quality of the DAC vs your CD player. You can get a very good DAC for the cost of a middle of the road CD player. Your current CD player must have a digital out, either optical or coax to be able to connect to a DAC. This Schiit Bit Frost with the Uber upgrade was reviewed well by a forum member-

    Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA.

    Here is another good budget DAC-

    Peachtree Audio DAC iTx Mini DAC-Audio Advisor

    If you want to go the budget route for speakers in the $200pr range, the BA A26's have a very nice sound. In fact a buddy of mine just bought a pair of the older CS 26's and they sound good. The Wharfdale10.1's are a nice speaker and better than the BA's by a long shot. But they require some power as they have a sensitivity of 86 dB. I prefer the 10.2's with the 6.5" woofer instead of a 5". I am not a fan of 5" woofers in a bookshelf. I always feel 5" woofer's without a sub really strain to put out decent mid bass.

    Music direct has a good deal right now on a pair of Epos Epic 2's for $399 pr on sale from $800. I almost bought a pair of these but they went off sale. These will have good bass as they are a larger bookshelf and they will be easy to drive with a sensitivity of 90dB.

    Other speakers to consider are the Focal 806's.

    Bookshelf at Music Direct

    All these speakers will be a huge step up from the BA's. Don't skimp on your speakers.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

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