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Thread: No Bass

  1. #1
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    No Bass

    I have a Chiro 200/Chiro 800 Amp and preamp pushing Magnepan MG1, a system I inherited. Just attached my turntable and lo and behold, there seems to be virtually no Bass. Is this normal or do I need to get a subwoofer.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cia2a View Post
    I have a Chiro 200/Chiro 800 Amp and preamp pushing Magnepan MG1, a system I inherited. Just attached my turntable and lo and behold, there seems to be virtually no Bass. Is this normal or do I need to get a subwoofer.

    Thanks
    I own 2 pairs of Magnepans, MMG's and QR1.6's which are newer models. The MG1's don't go down too low and don't have the highest highs. You will need a sub. A sealed sub works best in most cases. Good ported subs can match well too. As old as the MG1's are, they may need some refurbishing of the drivers and possibly the caps in the cross over. Magnepan can refurbish them.

    Magnepans like plenty of power and high current to sound the best and get the most out of them, especially bass. I run 500wpc with my 1.6's but you certainly don't need that much. 150 to 250wpc with high current works just fine if you play moderately loud.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  3. #3
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    In addition to needing serious current, Magnepans are like real estate. It's location, location, location. Proper positioning makes a very large difference.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts
    Marantz CD63SE, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    DAC's: MSB Link, Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY, Accuphase T101 tuner, Teac V-7010
    Emotiva UMC-200 processor, 2 Adcom GFA-545, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2 bridged Crown XLS-402, Behringer CX2310, DBX223sx, Behringer DSP1124P,2 12" Transmission Line Subs (PASS DIY El-Pipe-O), Magnepan 1.7 (fronts), Acoustat Model 1 ESL's/SPW-1 Woofer (rears)

  4. #4
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9 View Post
    In addition to needing serious current, Magnepans are like real estate. It's location, location, location. Proper positioning makes a very large difference.
    Yes, they sound best 2.5 to 3.5 feet from the back wall. If you place them near corners you will get more bass. But overall you will need a sub. My 1.6's put out plenty of bass with my Pass amp and BAT preamp, more than when I was using the Parasound A21 which is a brute of an amp with 60 peak amps of current and 400wpc. However, if you want the type of bass that you can feel, then you will need a sub.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

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    Ok, thanks all for the advice and help

  6. #6
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    If you decide to add a sub, don't go too cheap. A sub can be hard to integrate well with maggies. Cheap subs will sound flabby and out of place with the tight bass of the maggies. That is why I recommend a sealed sub or a more expensive ported sub. Also, a sub matches well when they are set at about the bottom end of the frequency response of the speakers (or about 5hz-10hz higher). The sub should only fill in the bass and should not draw attention to it except on very heavy bass passages.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #7
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    About the cheapest sub I would go with for this type of speaker would be the Martin Logan Dynamo 700 which is a good sub for the money and for music.

    MartinLogan | Dynamo 700

    there is also the option of building your own sub like I did which does perform better than the Dynamo 700 and cost less but you would have to have the skills to put it together yourself and finish it

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  8. #8
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    You say you just attached your turntable and I was wondering what kind of cartridge and phono stage the preamp has. The phono preamp needs to add equalization to balance out the sound. If there is a problem this could limit the bass response.
    JohnMichael
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  9. #9
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    One other sub to consider is the SVS SB-1000 which is a sealed sub. You can buy them at best-buy now.

    SVS SB-1000 | Home Theater Sealed Box Subwoofer

    But I second the Martin Logan as I am using an original Martin Logan Dynamo sub which is similar to the 700. It integrates seamlessly and is very musical.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  10. #10
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    how does the sound of the cd player compare to the LP player in terms of low bass? if it isn't as robust, you may have wired the phono cartridge out of phase. recheck that connection.

    i have MMGs and they aren't exactly anemic in the bass. YES, a sub will greatly enhance the sound and i agree that going cheap isn't a good idea. i have had good success with my HSU that was $500 when i bought it. the martin logan is a good way to go but for a few more bucks, the Rythmik will do a much better job.

    Rythmik Audio • Direct Servo subwoofer products
    ...regards...tr

  11. #11
    Kursun
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    You say you just attached your turntable and I was wondering what kind of cartridge and phono stage the preamp has. The phono preamp needs to add equalization to balance out the sound. If there is a problem this could limit the bass response.
    I was thinking about that too...Not enough bass? Well maybe...But no bass?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kursun View Post
    I was thinking about that too...Not enough bass? Well maybe...But no bass?
    Been out of country, I am going to check all this next week and change the wire on speakers, currently have 15 ga, will go to 12 . At 140 w pr channel I should get some bass.

    Thanks everyone for you info

  13. #13
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Yeah it does not sound right that you are not getting any bass out of your system. Maggies are inefficient speakers but 140 watts if it is true watts should be enough to at least get some bass out of them even though they are not known as bass heavy speakers. I really don't think going 3 gauges bigger in speaker cable will automatically make the bass "appear" even though it might allow more current to flow.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  14. #14
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    The pair of MG-1's I bought new in 1976 were my introduction to dipolar speakers. I would never say they had no bass. They were different sounding than what I was used to in having no mid bass peak and no cabinet resonances. However they were easily able to produce the 41.2Hz fundamental of an open E string on a bass.

    Incidentally, I moved up the Magneplanar line buying MG-2's and then MG-3a's before moving to ESL's in 1983.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts
    Marantz CD63SE, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    DAC's: MSB Link, Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY, Accuphase T101 tuner, Teac V-7010
    Emotiva UMC-200 processor, 2 Adcom GFA-545, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2 bridged Crown XLS-402, Behringer CX2310, DBX223sx, Behringer DSP1124P,2 12" Transmission Line Subs (PASS DIY El-Pipe-O), Magnepan 1.7 (fronts), Acoustat Model 1 ESL's/SPW-1 Woofer (rears)

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    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    phono or cd

    i still wonder if this condition exists onyl with phono or both cd and phono. if only in phono,the cartridge is probably wired out of phase.let us know please..
    ...regards...tr

  16. #16
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Perhaps I should add that back in 1976 I was using ordinary 16 gauge lamp cord for speaker cables.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts
    Marantz CD63SE, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    DAC's: MSB Link, Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY, Accuphase T101 tuner, Teac V-7010
    Emotiva UMC-200 processor, 2 Adcom GFA-545, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2 bridged Crown XLS-402, Behringer CX2310, DBX223sx, Behringer DSP1124P,2 12" Transmission Line Subs (PASS DIY El-Pipe-O), Magnepan 1.7 (fronts), Acoustat Model 1 ESL's/SPW-1 Woofer (rears)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy View Post
    i still wonder if this condition exists onyl with phono or both cd and phono. if only in phono,the cartridge is probably wired out of phase.let us know please..
    Hooked up the CD and it sounded wonderful, still not a lot of bass, but the sound was really good.
    I will check the needle and look at another phono preamp

    Thanks everyone

    Nate

  18. #18
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    nate, the wiring of a phono cartridge out of phase is easy enough to do by anybody, i have done it myself setting up a cartridge for a friend. its best to start by disconnecting all of the wires from the headshell to the cart. then just be sure they all go to the correct terminal.

    its been a while since we started this thread and i don't remember if anybody made sure you are hooking up to a phono section and not just an aux input.

    the aux input would certainly explain no bass as a phono stage boosts the bass and cuts the highs to make the sound balanced in opposition to the way it is cut onto the vinyl (bass cut and highs boosted to conserve space on the vinyl).

    if this has already been covered then forget i mentioned it.
    ...regards...tr

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    Yes I am going into an aux input, using a BBE phono pre amp. Thanks for your explanation that hit the nail on the head. ANy suggestions other than buy a sub woofer.

    THanks

  20. #20
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    not knowing your system makes me wonder IF you need a subwoofer. and how much you might spend on one. ELAC (search andrew jones ELAC) is just coming out with a sub that has room correction for not a lot of money.

    here is the lesser one: ELAC Debut S10 Subwoofer at Music Direct

    and the next one up: ELAC Debut S10EQ Powered subwoofer with Bluetooth® control and auto EQ at Crutchfield.com
    ...regards...tr

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    I got a Velodyne Optimum at a Pawn shop near Ft. Bragg for $200, I don't think they knew what they had. I installed this thing and the difference was amazing. Checked the connection on turntable, played an old Miles Davis LP and all is well in Mudville.

    Thanks to everyone for ALL your suggestions, corrections, advice . YOU ROCK.

    Nate

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