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  1. #26
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Well, lossless is a lot like Zip with which there is no loss of information. Simplistically speaking, redundant 1 or 0 are eliminated in such away that they can be reconstucted for use. Lossless formats, such as FLAC or ALAC, are do the same except optimized for encoding and decoding music in particular.

    Use Foobar2000 and 'Kernel Streaming' on my WinXP computer I get bit-perfect playback. You might know that HDCD encoding employes the "least significant bit" to activate on HDCD decoders in CDPs or DACs so equiped. So my DAC's HDCD indicator lights when play back HDCD content encoded to FLAC or ALAC -- a reliable indicator that these formats can be encoded and decoded bit-perfectly.

    MP3 or non-loss formats such as M4A (Apple iTunes) or WMA (Windows Media Audio) are "lossy" formats. The analogy here is to .JPEG or similar picture formats that loose information during encoding. If you encode to these formats, e.g. 320 kbps, or "extreme" quality variable bit rate in MP3, you'll get music that sounds indistiguishable from CD on mediocre equipment most of the time. But what you won't be able to do is reconstruct the original CD content which you can, if you want to, say, to burn a CD.

    Bear in mind that encoding & decoding a lossless format like FLAC takes less processing power than a lossy format like MP3.

    Related to this, some purists claim that non-compress sound file formats such as WAV or AIFF formats sound better on playback than lossless. Maybe so, but not because they are getting the bits more perfectly, 'cause they aren't. It might have to do with less jitter -- a thing that depends on a lot of variables -- or it might be their imaginations.

    In any case, with the low cost of data storage today, any enthusiast/audiophile would be out of his/her mind to rip to anything but a lossless format.
    Please excuse my ignorance, this all new to me. Can Foobar 2000 be used with Itunes on Vista as well? Should I be going that route? What would you recommend? Thanks!

  2. #27
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Guys, this is turning into a very good thread: I think that, in voicing my misgivings and regret over the expense involved in SACD acquisition, my voice is one of many who simply want the best product for the least expenditure. The CAL in question is $200.00, and is not the only unit I have eye-balled. Another ad I have seriously given thought to is a nice micromega 4, which to my recollection is a very pleasant sounding player and has the advantage of being upgradable and is supported by a company that is still extant. As you know from my comments in the previous ear-training exercise, my apparatus is not as refined as some of y'alls. I may well enjoy the SACD format very much, but I think that going with a good quality player with improved D/A conversion may suit my purposes well....

  3. #28
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    Auric, for $200.00 you'd better grab it. Even with an older DAC I think you'd enjoy the improvement. CAL may not be at the top of my list for new purchase but a good player and at a good price I wouldn't hesitate to grab one. Be sure to post if you jump and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

  4. #29
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    Hello forgive my ignorance, please provide examples of CALs or $200 ones for that
    matter.

    As for setting up a PC server who store lossless format music, that may be the way to go,
    still if it were me, I'd want a good remote control. Such convenience is important.

    The way this thread is going I may not end up getting an 840C DAC afterall haha.
    Hmmm the 24/384 upscale sounds go tempting, and I have said this more than enough
    times, the playback is absolutely devine. Too much to ask for such a unit with an in built
    TB hard drive ?
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  5. #30
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Yes, it can

    Quote Originally Posted by luvtolisten
    Please excuse my ignorance, this all new to me. Can Foobar 2000 be used with Itunes on Vista as well? Should I be going that route? What would you recommend? Thanks!
    Luv,

    Yes, Foobar2000 will play all Apple formats on a WinXP or Vista, (not Mac or Linux). In fact Foobar will play virtually any format, and it will parse CUE files for single songs where multiple songs (or movements) are recorded in a single file. What Foobar will not do is let you manage you iPod contents; for this you need iTunes or some other program with this capability.

    I like Foobar for a few of reasons:
    1. It's free.
    2. It can produce bit-perfect output using appropriate plug-ins. This is something iTunes can't do running on Windows.
    3. Its interface is highly configurable. The ability to tune lists and searches is important to me as a classical music listener.
    There are other music players that offer most, all, or more than Foobar. A popular one at the moment is J.River Media Jukebox which is also free. Perhaps I'll give it a try one of these days -- I'd love to dump iTunes which I still use to manage my iPod.

  6. #31
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Luv,

    Yes, Foobar2000 will play all Apple formats on a WinXP or Vista, (not Mac or Linux). In fact Foobar will play virtually any format, and it will parse CUE files for single songs where multiple songs (or movements) are recorded in a single file. What Foobar will not do is let you manage you iPod contents; for this you need iTunes or some other program with this capability.

    I like Foobar for a few of reasons:
    1. It's free.
    2. It can produce bit-perfect output using appropriate plug-ins. This is something iTunes can't do running on Windows.
    3. Its interface is highly configurable. The ability to tune lists and searches is important to me as a classical music listener.
    There are other music players that offer most, all, or more than Foobar. A popular one at the moment is J.River Media Jukebox which is also free. Perhaps I'll give it a try one of these days -- I'd love to dump iTunes which I still use to manage my iPod.
    Hi Feanor, thanks for responding back. I use iTunes, for me it's more user friendly. I don't have a iPod, I use iTunes as a music server, playing it thru my DAC to my stereo. The question I have is, are both these (thank you for the links by the way) programs, just for playback, or for ripping CD's too? I have ripped 600 CD's to Itunes, would there be any benefit to rip them again using the new software vs. the Itunes software?

  7. #32
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    As for setting up a PC server who store lossless format music, that may be the way to go,
    still if it were me, I'd want a good remote control. Such convenience is important.

    HI Ozzie,
    That's what I did, although I have the Dac Magic, not the 840C.. I was fortunate enough when I bought my Samsung 40" TV it had a monitor port. So I ran a cable to it,from my PC, as well as one to my DAC,(about 20ft,both in my living room) and use a wireless mouse to compliment my reciever remote.


    The way this thread is going I may not end up getting an 840C DAC afterall haha.
    Hmmm the 24/384 upscale sounds go tempting, and I have said this more than enough
    times, the playback is absolutely devine. Too much to ask for such a unit with an in built
    TB hard drive ?[/QUOTE]

    Sounds like you're on the fence. The 4 inputs is a nice feature. Plug in you PC, or your cable/satellite box (for the music channels). Maybe an older 5 disc changer.

  8. #33
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    Ozzie,

    http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/406olive/

    http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-me...ic-server.html

    There are stand alone component servers out there, Cambridge had the 640H, Yamaha had one for awhile and even the likes of McIntosh, some are no longer built which leads one to wonder why, was it not accepted well, do people dismiss them to just use their computer or were there issues, it seems like the best offerings are from those who just concentrate on the one product. I've seen a couple sold through music, as in instrument, stores but I can't remember the brands. A computer would be a lot easier to expand than a proprietary piece of hi fi gear. There are also servers from Sonos and other companies into multiroom systems.

    This isn't my forte but I thought I'd try to add something

  9. #34
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    You question

    Quote Originally Posted by luvtolisten
    Hi Feanor, thanks for responding back. I use iTunes, for me it's more user friendly. I don't have a iPod, I use iTunes as a music server, playing it thru my DAC to my stereo. The question I have is, are both these (thank you for the links by the way) programs, just for playback, or for ripping CD's too? I have ripped 600 CD's to Itunes, would there be any benefit to rip them again using the new software vs. the Itunes software?
    Rerip? Yuck! In the first place, did you rip to Apple Lossless or to a "lossy" format? If to a lossy format, more fool you: rerip those suckers!! Otherwise I wouldn't rush out and rerip all my CDs, but might be worth a try starting with any problem files, that is, ones that don't play or have glitches. Did you use iTune's error correction selecton when ripping?

    Yes, Foobar2000 will rip as will J.River. But I've never used Foobar for ripping. I have using iTunes, EAC, and dBpoweramp. I recommend dBpoweramp Reference edition, ($36), with its 'secure' modes that are more likely to copy bit-perfectly from the CD. If you have a badly scratched disc, EAC is probably your best bet, but dBpoweramp is much slicker and easier to use, plus it pulls tag information from multiple sources.

    If you happen to need to convert files from Apple format to some other, or if you want to create highly compress, lossy format to fit on a mobile device, convert (i.e. created converted copies) your lossless files using dBpoweramp rather than reripping -- much, much faster

  10. #35
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    Hello forgive my ignorance, please provide examples of CALs or $200 ones for that matter.
    Oz: I was lucky to find this deal on Audiogon. You can probably still find the posting there (audiogon.com) under the CD transports; it is the Tercet mk iii. This was a pretty expensive player in its day, and I would not have been able to indulge myself then. Now, as increasing numbers of inexpensive CD-only players are being made available, I can play around a bit. I auditioned CALs years ago and was very favorably impressed with their lucid and relaxed sound, so I am excited with this purchase. I'll report on its sound and performance when it arrives.

    Now, if I can just find a way of introducing it to the wife without getting evicerated...
    "The great tragedy of science--the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact."--T. Huxley

  11. #36
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    Sneak it into the conversation as pillow talk just after having great sex. Assuming..... occasionally....... this does happen

  12. #37
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Thought I'd introduce it as a space heater....I hear these CALs get pretty hot. Good suggestion though, Mr. P. Should be in Mo or Tue. I can't stand it....

  13. #38
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    I'm excited for you. Hope all goes well.

  14. #39
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    I'm excited for you. Hope all goes well.
    Thank you. Ever since my Meridian 200 died, I've been in mourning. This should rekindle some of the embers.
    "The great tragedy of science--the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact."--T. Huxley

  15. #40
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Well, the Tercet arrived this afternoon...So far she seems a bit tempermental: The door reopens after it has been reintroduced into the player: I must hold it gently in place for it to remain shut. Discs are not being read for information, which means,so far, no music is being played. The manual suggests that the presence of condensation may be affecting things, so I am letting the player warm up. As to the first problem, there is mention that the "lock shaft is locked" and may need to be "pulled up to unlock". I don't know where or what a "lock shaft" is, and there seems to be no mention of it elsewhere....Any clues?
    "The great tragedy of science--the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact."--T. Huxley

  16. #41
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    Boy, I hope those problems aren't the reason the player was only 2 bills. I'm not familiar with players having that type of lock accept for very old, first few generations had a long screw that had to be removed from the bottom of the unit.

    Can you email the former owner or CAL? Hope all is well.

  17. #42
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Thanks, Mr. P: I wonder about the "screw", too, but the Installation Procedure states: "turn unit on side and pull locking pin located in the recess under drive to outermost position to release laser and disc loading tray. (Note: When shipping unit, tilt chassis onto rear side and push locking pin in.)" Seems to me, if the pin were a screw, they would say so....I'll keep you guys up to date as these things get sorted out.
    "The great tragedy of science--the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact."--T. Huxley

  18. #43
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    Red face Doh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Rerip? Yuck! In the first place, did you rip to Apple Lossless or to a "lossy" format? If to a lossy format, more fool you: rerip those suckers!! Otherwise I wouldn't rush out and rerip all my CDs, but might be worth a try starting with any problem files, that is, ones that don't play or have glitches. Did you use iTune's error correction selecton when ripping?

    Yes, Foobar2000 will rip as will J.River. But I've never used Foobar for ripping. I have using iTunes, EAC, and dBpoweramp. I recommend dBpoweramp Reference edition, ($36), with its 'secure' modes that are more likely to copy bit-perfectly from the CD. If you have a badly scratched disc, EAC is probably your best bet, but dBpoweramp is much slicker and easier to use, plus it pulls tag information from multiple sources.

    If you happen to need to convert files from Apple format to some other, or if you want to create highly compress, lossy format to fit on a mobile device, convert (i.e. created converted copies) your lossless files using dBpoweramp rather than reripping -- much, much faster
    Hi Feanor, thanks again for getting back. Well, I'm still on the learning curve, but the first 500 cds I ripped I used iTunes ACC encoding. Then by reading this and other forums I found that Lossless or AIFF was the way to go. (That turned out to be a really heated debate on one of the other forums.) I did use " correction error" on all the CD's. I just happened to be looking around in iTunes, and noticed if I right click on one of the songs, it gives me the option to convert to Apple Lossless, which only takes a couple of seconds. So I'm hoping this will be a solution. I really don't want to rerip all those CD's.

    Thanks for the tips on the software as well. If you think I need to rerip the CD's again, dBpoweramp will have earned it's money just for the time saver it would be. Not bad for a software price. Enough left over for a 12 pack to get me thru it.

  19. #44
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    If you've ripped them in a 'lossy' format, converting them to a lossless one will not make them lossless.

  20. #45
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    If you've ripped them in a 'lossy' format, converting them to a lossless one will not make them lossless.
    To quote Homer Simpson "Doh!" I'm not sure what ACC is exactly, which is what I ripped 90% of CD's in. I'm going to have to educate myself more, which is what I should have done in the first place before I started. But I had just bought the PC and DAC and couldn't wait to play with my new toys. Thanks, AA for the feedback. Looks like I'll be buying the software Feanor recommended. I didn't mind ripping them the first time, sure won't be as much fun the second time .

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvtolisten
    To quote Homer Simpson "Doh!" I'm not sure what ACC is exactly, which is what I ripped 90% of CD's in. I'm going to have to educate myself more, which is what I should have done in the first place before I started. But I had just bought the PC and DAC and couldn't wait to play with my new toys. Thanks, AA for the feedback. Looks like I'll be buying the software Feanor recommended. I didn't mind ripping them the first time, sure won't be as much fun the second time .
    I believe AAC is a lossy codec by Apple. An mp3 equivalent, albeit a little better from what I've heard.

    You're welcome

  22. #47
    Ajani
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    Red face Here I Come To Save The Day! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    As for setting up a PC server who store lossless format music, that may be the way to go,
    still if it were me, I'd want a good remote control. Such convenience is important.
    You have a lot of options for adding a remote to your PC server. Two good options are:

    1) Buy a streaming music player (such as Squeezebox or Sonos). They have their own remotes and will access all the music stored on your computer.

    OR

    2) Use iTunes as your media player and buy an iPod Touch or iPhone (either will allow you to control iTunes on your computer). You could also add an appleTV or airport express if you don't want to run cables from your computer to your stereo...

  23. #48
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvtolisten
    To quote Homer Simpson "Doh!" I'm not sure what ACC is exactly, which is what I ripped 90% of CD's in. I'm going to have to educate myself more, which is what I should have done in the first place before I started. But I had just bought the PC and DAC and couldn't wait to play with my new toys. Thanks, AA for the feedback. Looks like I'll be buying the software Feanor recommended. I didn't mind ripping them the first time, sure won't be as much fun the second time .
    The default encoding for iTunes is AAC (which is better than MP3 for the record). Apple Lossless (or any lossless) is better than AAC, but how much better depends on the individual recordings and the quality of the equipment you're listening to the music on. I'd suggest ripping a few of your favourite albums over in Apple Lossless and then comparing them to the original AAC rips.... If the difference is significant enough then you can dedicate your energy to re-ripping your entire collection asap... If not, then you can either re-rip at your own leisure or not at all...

  24. #49
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    Thankyou for the options everyone.

    I'll take the sonos heavily on board. The iTunes, hmmm never been quite impressed
    considering it's not actual CD quality, but is very good however.

    Unfortunately I am one who has a system that can bring out the difference between
    mp3 (or other compressed formats) and listening through a CD. CD music is just on
    an entirely new level.

    I've tested software that can convert to FLAC, to some of the higher specced formats,
    and frequencies, still my system can pick up even the minor detailed difference when
    playing the same track on CD.

    I won't go for a mutidisc player, because I had one of those, and you simply cannot beat
    quality with a single tray CD player.

    My personal listening experience comparing listening through a PC, or PS3 playlist, as
    opposed to a CD/SACD, the CD is at least 5 times better, and the SACD is at least
    twice as better as the CD.

    I am more convinced I will get both still, a Sonos, or equivalent server, and a higher
    end form of CD player with a in build DAC. The Cambridge Audio 840C sounds like a
    good option. I still have a few months before I end up getting a new source. Next two
    months is to finish paying off my new power amp.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  25. #50
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    Cary CD 306 SACD Professional Version - oh what ? :P

    Hello.

    When I looked at the Cary CD 306 SACD Professional Version component, I think I had to
    pick up my eyes off the floor because they popped out of my sockets.

    Digital Sample Rates (Fs): 44.1, 96, 192, 384, 512 or 768kHz sample rates for CD playback to the analog audio outputs, 44.1, 96 or 192kHz Fs for digital inputs

    What ?

    Like I'm every going to find a unit like that in WA

    VIC and NSW only. Still, can't hurt to ask how much the unit would cost. Could it
    justify twice or three times the price of a Cambridge Audio 840C ?

    Please somebody tell me they have experienced both units and can provide some
    feedback :P
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

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