Looking for advice

[Bean2011]

Hi all,

I am a novice audiophile with a basic (at best) understanding of technology. However I have been doing some research, and after accumulating some info, decided to join the forum and ask a question.

I have 2 Tannoy Definition tower speakers, Tannoy Eyris C center, and 2 Eyris 1 rears. For an amplifier I got Nakamichi PA-5, and CA-5 for a preamp. Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver.
I will use Nakamichi PA5 for the towers. For the rest I thought of getting Nakamchi TA-4A (100W center and sub) TA-2A5 50W or SR4A 60W for the rears (50W).
Is such set up possible or I am nuts? I only considered it after learning that Nakamichi SR and TA receivers/amplifiers are inexpensive yet very high quality. Designed by Nelson Pass.
If I can pull it off, what is the optimal way of connecting all this equipment. Please, pardon my ignorance.

[blackraven]

If you are going to use this set up for Home Theater then stick with the Onkyo as I ascribe to the "KISS" method which means Keep It Simple, Stupid. I am not calling you stupid but it is an old acronym for electronics and it applies to many things. If you want to use the front speakers for 2ch audio with the Nakamichi gear as well as for Home Theater then the best bet is to get an amp switcher like this from Niles Audio unless your preamp has a home theater by pass option. I have used their products and they work well.

DPS-1 | Switching Systems | Niles Audio

[Mr Peabody]

If you think you might listen to 5 channel music you should have all the channels similar power, however, that can be compensated for somewhat in the set up of the receiver. And, your subwoofer wouldn't need an amp unless using a passive sub which is unusual for home theater.

You could use the Onkyo solely for home theater and the Nak system for two channel, if sharing the main speakers physically switching the cables at back of speaker depending on what system you want to listen to. I know it can be inconvenient, it's what I do.

If the Nak preamp has bypass which isn't likely if it's an older preamp, and, if the 809 offers preamp outputs, you run from the 809 main L/R outs into the Nak preamp. You can do the same set up running the 809 preamp outs into a regular AUX input of the Nak but you'd have to have some way to remember the volume level on the Nak when using home theater. This could be easy if the preamp has a digital volume read out. If it's analog I used a piece of tape before.

When using this type set up you could use the receiver to drive the center and rears while the Nak would drive mains.

The receiver has a sub out or "LFE" you plug your sub into. If you want sub for both music & HT, well, that's another story

[Bean2011]

Thank you guys. Much clearer now. I thought I'd be able to use all speakers for audio. I am not quite clear on one thing. Will I be able to run front speakers through the amplifier with all others through Onkyo using the device in the first post?

[blackraven]

The Niles audio switcher will allow you to use the front speakers with the Onkyo and the Nakamichi. It allows you to connect 2 amps to 1 pair of speakers so that you can switch between amps. You hook up the main speaker outputs of both amps to the Niles switcher and then connect the speaker out of the switcher to the pair of speakers that you want to run, which in your case is the large front speakers.

[Bean2011]

Also guys could you explain to me what this might mean. In the manual for CA-5, (amplifier connection section) it says that "the unit provides two sets of line outputs, so that two power amplifiers can be driven simultaneously, if desired." I am sorry for being persistent and perhaps stupid, in being that way, but doesn't this mean that 4 speakers can be run simultaneously (2 per each amp)?

[blackraven]

Yes, you can run 2 amps or 1 amp and 1 powered subwoofer.

[Bean2011]

Tried to connect 2 main speakers via pre out in my Onkyo using picture number 2 from this link
Fluance - Bi-Amp or Bi-Wire Instructions
Nothing but hum. Removed red and black on each side and sound appeared but with buzz again and no amplification. What might I be doing wrong?

[blackraven]

You need to connect the speakers to the speaker out not to preamp out.

[Bean2011]

I figured it out guys. It was the TV. Unplugged the cable and all seems to work. Although I am slightly disillusioned by the sound. It is not what I expected to come out. There is a slight amount of amplification, but overall same flat experience. Possibly I may have not connected properly, but I tested by switching amp on and off on low volume. Meh.
I was originally thinking of eventually getting a 5 channel amp like Audio Refinement multi five, and bi amping fronts with it and the Nak, and powering center and backs with remaining channels for surround experience. The second intended purpose of the 5 channel inthiught woukd be to enhance the sound of home theater. In other words to be used with Onkyo to amplify 5 speakers. Coming to conclusion that the former set up maybe excessive, as two fronts seem to oroduce all I need. The latter, on the other hand,seems ineffective and unimpressive.

[Mr Peabody]

Have you tried using the Onkyo auto speaker set up? The equalization helps a lot. There is also sound settings on the remote "music" "movie" etc. that may help.

When adding an external amp you need to get one that will be enough of an upgrade in quality it makes it worth while.

[Bean2011]

Thanks Mr. Peabody. By auto speaker set up you mean the Audessey? I went into speaker set up and played with it few times. Did not see auto.

I have Nakamichi PA-5. Is it not powerful enough to make a difference? I thought it was pretty good amp in terms of quality.

[Mr Peabody]

In your speaker set up you should have the option of manual or auto. Auto does use Audessey and you have to have the receiver's microphone plugged in. The receiver will have you position the mic in a few places in the room then it calculates a good response based on its readings from the mic. Both the Onkyo I had and my Marantz seems to sound much better with the Audessey EQ on.

The Nak amp should be good. Not so much confidence in Audio Refinement.

[blackraven]

It's strange that you feel that there is not enough power. That Onkyo puts out 130wpc and the Nak is 100wpc x7 with 30 peak amps. Both have enough power to drive demanding speakers.

[Bean2011]

Related to the post above.
I am planning eventually on getting a second amp to biamp the fronts. It will be the first upgrade I was thinking of. With regards to this I have a stupid question.
I was thinking of a three channel amp. Sine I have a 2 channel already, a thee channel one will power the remaining speakers. This is both for home threater and music listening.
What I can't figure out if I can run 2 amps from my Onkyo receiver. I am still struggling somewhat with understanding of how sound technology operates.
Does a 3 channel amp need 3 preouts?
On separate note, my Nak preamp has two sets of outs for 2 separate amps. Can I power a 3 channel and my 2 channel amps from a total of 4 outs on the pre-amp?

[Bean2011]

Hi guys.

Had new ideas and wanted to ask your opinion. Remember I could not figure out how to split systems and use Onkyo and Nak to drive fronts separately?
Mr Peabody suggested Niles switch. I thought of it, but decided to go another rout. Got two Pioneer dss-7 speakers. They sound awesome and I am using them now as main speakers. All Tannoys are now used strictly for HT.
Now I started doing some research with a goal of enhancing HT experience and perhaps finding something that will maximize potential of Tannoy speakers. Both in terms home theater and audio exoerience.
I came across Luxman R series. Even though 117 is not anywhere to be found there are plenty of 114s and 115s. Very inexpensive.
My questions are:
- Can they be used for video/cable TV?
- Why do they have 4 speaker outs. Can 4 speakers be driven by them?
- I saw preouts on the pictures. Are they for another amp?

How awesome would it be to have even R 115 with 70 wpc to allow for an improved HT and an alternative audio set and experience. .

[blackraven]

Older receivers use to have an A-B button so you could switch between 2 sets of speakers. You could use the Luxman 117 for TV if the TV has analog out puts. If not then you can buy a cheap DAC and run that between the TV and receiver.

[Mr Peabody]

If your HT system is for HT I wouldn't go with a vintage receiver, you need the HT features of a HT receiver. Besides that Onkyo receivers are higher current than most so to your ears you won't really perceive more power. In fact, it may sound like less. I had one of those R series Luxman receivers, it was very clear sounding, seemingly with a bit of emphasis in the treble, bass was decent but not a big bass sound. If memory serves I believe it did have a couple filter switches to adjust the sound some.

I had an Onkyo..... 515? I did replace it with a Marantz 1605. The 1605 just rated at 50 watts per channel still sounded better to me and fuller. I was surprised, I didn't think there'd be much difference in HT receivers of similar price.

It just doesn't make sense to me to go vintage with a bunch of work arounds, which will cost, in a HT system.

The DAC in the HT receiver directs the movie soundtrack to your various speakers in your surround set up. So messing with a stereo receiver defeats your purpose. Wow, I think I somehow stepped on a soapbox, LOL. done

[blackraven]

Well said Mr. P.

[Bean2011]

Thank Mr. Peabody. I agree. Stereo receiver is a bad idea. I guess my obsession is with trying to extract as much sound out of whichever set up I will end up with as possible.

So I decided to go with Nakamichi AV 10. (I know it is an older piece, and I was forewarned by you guys not to mess around with older equipment.) After looking through some of the threads on other forums, I found several fairly recent reports of successful set up with current equipment, such as apple TV, for example. I have Amazon fire with optical connection similar to what was described.
It is a 5.1 surround sound receiver with 100WPC and decent, as they say DAC, producing good sound with a CDs.
Connections are either optical or coaxial. The only issue maybe cable. I got an HDMI to component adaptor. We will see how it works
Bluray plugs directly into projector via HDMI and sound optical through Receiver.

One thing I don't quite understand on the receiver is the pre-outs. There are 6 of them. Two fronts, center, rears and sub. My primary focus here is sub, although I am curious about the rest as well. I read that an RCA cable is used directly from the sub pre-out into powered sub. Is it true? I don't have to use subwoofer amplifier for that?
With regards to the rest of the pre-outs. Are they to be used, if I choose so, via an amp? If set up works out I will have plenty of power with 100 WPC. I my possibly power the fronts with an extra amp.
It is just strange that there would be 5 pre-outs, provided that the sub is a separate thing altogether. Do they presuppose a use of 5 channel amp or whichever combination with 5 channels?

[Bean2011]

So I set up Nakamichi AV10. Sounds really good. Very powerful sound. All systems work.
One question guys. I want to maximize potential of both Tannoys and Pioneers Ran an experiment with Tannoys connecting lows to speaker outs on Nakamichi AV 10 and highs to Nakamichi PA5, using former as a preamp. I was told that as soon as you use AV as a preamp for the fronts it cuts out speaker outs, both A and B. However when I connect the speakers that way. They seem to run at a higher power. I turned Nak PA 5 of and all sounds flatter. Not sure if I am correct or having false positive experience.
I am doing this to extract as much sound out of Tannoys as I can.
Planning to run Pioneers with a 200 WPC amp. Looking at Yamaha M70 for 300 on Craig's. PA 7 purchase will result in divorce.

[blackraven]

I am not a fan of biamping. I like to keep things simple, less to go wrong.

You should consider a used Adcom amp. It will be more reliable and easier to get fixed.

There are some good buys on Adcoms, Rotel and Classe amps on audigon.com right now. There are also a pair of Marantz MA 700 mono block amps.